New Buck thread...other got too long. RE's Good Ideas.

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by DammitJanet, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    RE I had a chance to attempt to sit down tonight with Tony and have a short talk with him about a few things. Things got off on a rocky foot for awhile. I attempted to explain detachment and he really didnt understand the concept at all because he thought it meant severing the relationship and not speaking or seeing the person hardly at all sorta like he is with his sister but I said that is more of a healthy relationship because they can see each other when they want, talk on the phone from time to time but they dont expect to be supported by each other so they have a healthy detachment from each other. Also we have a healthy detachment from our son Jamie. We love him to death but we arent worried about being inside their every decision in their lives. We dont have to call them everyday to make sure they are okay and make sure he goes to work and pays his bills. We assume he is doing okay. If he doesnt, its on him.

    Unhealthy detachment is when you have to be so enmeshed with someone that you have to fix someone else's life because you feel they arent able to without you. You are not allowing them to hit their bottom so that they have to work to figure out how to come up. He doesnt like this. He also doesnt like the fact that I have figured out that he has forced me into the role of caretaker. It was easy for me to fall into that role because I had just gone out of being the mom. However, by being the caretaker it makes me into the mother who wants to set rules and set punishments when my charge doesnt do what I want him to do. Then I get very angry. Tony doesnt get angry because he has put me in the role of the caretaker so he can just set back and feel good about being the good guy who is helping his brother in everyone's eyes. Its a sick cycle between the two of us and Buck is reaping the benefits of all of this by doing nothing while we fight it out.

    I told Buck to go look for a job today. I doubt he did because he left while I was at the store and he hasnt come home as of now....1 am. This is the latest he has ever been out. Prior to this it was 11:45. Personally I think if he can find somewhere to stay overnight then he should just move there but Im sure Tony wont agree with me.

    I told Tony tonight that now I dont want to be the caretaker because I dont want to get into the cycle of being angry anymore but he said if that happens then Buck will just stay here forever because neither one of them are capable of doing what I am doing. Sigh. I dont know what to do.

    Maybe he wont come home. I hate to think something could have happened to him but I know it could at anytime. He is not taking his medications the way he is supposed to because I can tell by his pill bottles. There are way too many pills in his blood pressure medications and cholesteral medication bottles. I have never found a bottle that actually shows that he has been prescribed pain medications which makes me wonder if he has been buying pain medications all along. If that is the case, who knows what he is buying. I know he was in the hospital just over a month and a half ago for bleeding into his stomach with ulcers from taking too many advil type medicines and I know he is still doing that plus he isnt taking any of his stomach medications and he is eating foods that are very spicy.

    Ugh...he just came in. Headed straight for the fridge. I said "your hungry? You mean you have been out all this time at someone's house and they didnt feed you?" He said oh I was at the Indian Authority and they were trying to figure out how to get me a paycheck and kept going around in circles. Nothing he was saying made sense. Somehow kids from Wake Forest got into the mix and we arent anywhere near Wake Forest. I said something about didnt they need his birth certificate and then it wasnt anything to do with the Indian tribe. It simply didnt make sense. He was shaking like a leaf. He had to be on something. He said something at the end when I said, these places were open till 1 am? Oh no, I was at some boys house for awhile. Yeah some druggies house I bet. When I am around him I get a headache. Sure sign. Oh and the place I sent him to apply today, they werent taking Guess that sign is for decoration. I will call them tomorrow.
  2. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Itching powder in his underwear/bed.

    Bake up a batch of "forbidden" brownies......with just enough exlax to keep him running to the bathroom for a while.

    *sigh* No real ideas are going to work. Buck is not going to change because Buck has always had this work for him. You don't change once you get to Buck's just move on to the next victim. As long as Tony is determined to enable, there isn't much you can do except make it as utterly uncomfortable for him to be there as humanly possible.

    Now how on earth is the Indian Authority going to get him a paycheck with no birth certificate and no job? I doubt they just have cash to hand out to the likes of him. And they certainly aren't keeping those hours. LOL

    Perhaps your only choice is to get Tony to see his drug addiction.

  3. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    Okay, I'm little iffy on your laws on this and if I have understood correctly, this is about an only thing you go easier for law breakers than we do, but there is one time tested method to get people in trouble here (has happened more than once around here in sport teams when they have wanted an out from the contract with their North American players.) Wait till you know he is intoxicated, you can even offer him alcohol/leave it him to steal (I know you are not using alcohol, but you could keep some for cleaning purposes or for cooking or have someone give it to you as a present...), and driving and do your civic duty and call the cobs. I mean, he could drive over some innocent kid, when driving around while on drugs/drunk. DUI or few would likely help you get rid of him and make Tony see that he is still using.

    Of course the problem would be that he could revenge and bust Cory from driving without lisence, I guess. But if you could do it anonymously or him not guessing that someone ratted him out...
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    LOL I was reading your post and you came to the part where he came home...

    I found myself whispering to you:

    Don't do it Janet. Don't ask him. Don't engage at all. You're just going to get lies and frustration......

    But you didn't hear me, *wink *
  5. dstc_99

    dstc_99 Well-Known Member

    I'm with Buddy....stop engaging and stop helping him. He isn't taking the advice and his lies just make you angry. Tony dumped it back on you again by saying he and Buck can't handle it. OK fine then Tony and Buck can do the work and ask you for assistance when you need it. Why isn't Tony pushing him to work? Why isn't Tony wondering where he was and why he looks high as a kite?

    There are simple ways to handle it. JUST STOP! Set down with Tony and make a list of weekly requirements.Make Tony enforce them. Tell Tony if Buck doesn't do them then Tony has to. Tell them if Tony and Buck dont handle their end of the bargain you wont help them with the things they need help with. IE: you scratch my back and get Buck to do his chores and I'll scratch yours back by helping with phone calls and paperwork.

    PS: to ensure that he submits applications make him bring home copies of the applications he fills out. If the business wont copy it make him bring home a second application and fill it out. Call the business the next day to ensure he did turn one in and if he didn't then make Tony and Buck take the completed application to the business.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I like the idea of not engaging him or even acknowledging him. If he has any shame at all, this will bother him. Don't help him. At all. And don't buy food he likes. Start buying healthy food he won't like that. Or buy for one meal at a time and tell your boys to stash extras in their rooms and lock their rooms when t hey go out. Tony may suffer too, but...oh well.
    I also like Suz's idea of turning him in for being intoxicated on the road, maybe as an anonymous driver who he almost hit, but you got his license plate. To Suz, this is actually a BIG no-no can lose your license or go to jail. It's not small potatoes to get a DWI (driving under the influence) so your idea was in my opinion excellent.
    Buck is too old to change. Tony can't help him. Only he can help himself, and why should he? Somebody always picks him up when he falls. I'm really sorry you have to deal with this idiot.
  7. Oh ugh! I just posted and it got lost. Sigh.

    Janet - I can sympathize with your situation because I went through something similar with an uncle. husband and I were living with my parents while we were saving for a house. My alcoholic uncle moved in and just about drove me crazy. I was pregnant at the time and I took care of all the housework, cooking and bought all the groceries. My parents and husband worked full time and I was working from home with our company we were starting up.

    My uncle would stay in bed until 3:00 every day and then get up, shower, be presentable when my parents arrived home and act like he'd been helping me out all day. Used to drive me crazy! My mom would never believe anything I said until after I moved out and she had to deal with him. He didn't last 6 months after I left and my parents kicked him out.

    So, my only advice would be to detach from it as best you can and dump the responsibility in Tony's lap. Whatever chores were assigned to Buck should be ones that will affect Tony if they aren't done. Hopefully he'll get the message about Buck and realize that he's not helping Buck he's enabling him to continue being a middle-aged difficult child.
  8. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    Janet, you won't reason with these two. It's just going to upset you and not get anywhere. I don't want to see you upset.Change your expectations. Anything Buck likes is now the dog's. Favorite chair of his? It's now the i

    dog's. His blanket? The dog's, even your leftover's.
    I think you're going to have to have fun messing with him. It's all you have at this point. Play your music really loud even if you need to use headphones. Hound said get itching powder, get creative like that. Provide alcohol and call the cops if he drives, I know you can think of things to one up him while Tony is at work, just like lies to Tony about his own behavior, you can go ape##### and lie to Tony about Buck's behavior for REAL. Remember when Buck first arrived and said he was on a paid vacation from BK? It was all a lie and he continues to lie. Don't bother calling the places he applies to, Buck is full of #%#&. Janet, it's just a waste of your time and aggravation. You are now just messing with him for fun. Janet, don't engage or let yourself vet upset. LAUGH at him, he'll hate that, do it often.
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I have decided to make food he wont like or will cause him pain. He supposedly has gout. I think we are going to be eating a lot of I already made polenta, spoonbread and Welsh Rarebit which he wont eat. I comment to Tony out loud, hmmm, beggars really shouldnt be so choosy right? I wonder what they are serving at the soup kitchen?

    Buck has taken to leaving every night now "going to some guys house" and coming home anywhere between 9:30 and after 1 am. As far as having Tony even knowing what he is like coming home is laughable because Tony is always in bed asleep. He leaves before we even start dinner most times so we cant ask him to help. What makes absolutely no sense is that if this is the type of friend like he has implied to tony, I am sure they would have had him for dinner because he is there during dinner hours. If one of Tony's friends ended up here we would at least offer and trust me buck would never turn down food. Especially not if he was out of the house from 8 am in the morning.

    Yesterday we had a fairly large project that needed doing in the house. Our kitchen sink had been leaking underneath it from some of the pipes for quite awhile and we kept just fixing it patchwork style. Finally a major hose sprung a leak and we just couldnt let it go any longer and by this time the floor under the cabinet was really bad so Tony decided yesterday was construction day. He tore the entire ruined part out and then while I went to my doctor appointment he went to Lowes to buy the needed wood and plumbing parts. He came home and together we got it back. He did an awesome job. Buck is awful. Tony asked me later if I noticed how bad he was with helping and I said yeah and he said that was how he was at work. I swear, when Buck saw all the tools my dad gave Tony all he could think about was working with those. He couldnt keep his mind on any of the work at all after that. Tony did an awesome job even though he had to keep yelling at Buck for the right parts and pieces. LOL. Its bad when I have to get up and go over and hand them to him when Buck has bragged all this time that he has built million dollar homes but he cant hand a wrench.

    But before we even started on the entire thing and when I was leaving to go to the doctor, I toldd Buck that he had today (yesterday) to finish his paperwork for his birth certificate and I would take it to the post office, get the extra self addressed stamped envelope and mail it off that day because I needed to go to the post office that afternoon but if he didnt have it ready for me then that was going to be my last offer of help and he would be on his own. He never got it to me. Tony said that was fair. Tony has been on him too about it. I have my theory about why he wont do the birth certificate. Tony had given him the money to get a money order to order the BC but they left it blank because they didnt know who to make it out to. He had that money order in his room. Im betting he cashed that money order. I think its time for Tony to now force the issue. Im not gonna say anything else though. Might sneak in there that he didnt give it to me and see what he does.
  10. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    more interesting stuff going on but this time its bad. Last night I didnt sleep very well because of itching from the hives so I went out to get some drink a few times during the night. I know I last saw Buck out in the living room sometime around midnight or so. I got up again when Tony got up at 5:30 (which was really and Buck didnt get up this morning. Tony decided to go fishing today so he went out to pick me up some breakfast from McDonalds. I was in my room when he brought me the breakfast back so I assumed he had got Buck up to go fishing with him, especially when I got up later in the day and Bucks car was here but his door was closed and Billy said he hadnt seen him at all today. Neither of us saw him even after I got up. So eventually Tony calls me from his fishing trip at the river to ask me what I was making for dinner and I said I didnt know since he took my dishwasher with him. Turns out he didnt have Buck and Buck had been here the entire time. Tony ended up picking up pizza for me, him and Billy and Buck just didnt have anything left for him when he got up. Boy was he ticked off! Well...Tony is getting very upset with him because he hasnt done the dishes in 3 days now and we just got our power bill and its almost 80 bucks more than it was last month. And our water bill is 10 bucks more than last month.

    However the biggest issue is we have discovered some items missing. Some rather important items. And now Tony cant deny or blame anyone because its right in his face. The silver water server I got from my mom that disappeared the last time Buck moved out but mysteriously returned when I mentioned it, has now vanished again from where Tony "found" it for me the last time. That means Tony knows the thing was there...because he put it there, plus it was right behind the Playstation 3 that he uses at least a few times a month and its below our TV in the family room.

    I went looking for it because I had been looking at the shelves in my family room and they were looking sort of odd to me. I am nearsighted so I really cant see that shelf unit very well but it looked sort of bare. I finally got close enough to it because Buck had stacked a ton of toys and boxes and all sorts of things in front of the shelf so I couldnt get within 5 feet of it but I could visually look. I am missing about 5 or 6 pieces of silver plated pieces. Not extremely valuable but sentimental. A person who didnt know silver from silver plate wouldnt know the difference. Tony however noticed what was missing the minute I told him to look at the shelf. He got very very quiet.

    I told him...this isnt Cory. He said I know its not. We also know there isnt anyone else coming in here. Tony told Buck my things had gone missing and he just went "oh" and nothing else. I made the comment that I dont take kindly to people stealing from me, just ask Cory, he is carrying felonies after he stole from me but it broke him from stealing. Buck ignored me. After Tony went to bed, I strongly suggested to Buck that he check in his stuff in his room "just in case my stuff got in with his stuff" to give him an out if he had any of it in his room. He could say maybe the kids took it in there. He got really nasty with me and said the only way that anything would be in there would be if I put it in there. He went to bed again tonight without doing dishes. I wonder what Tony is going to say when he gets up? I am betting Buck will get up with him this morning because he knows I wont. I hope Tony reads him the riot act about the kitchen because I cant cook dinner in a kitchen with no clean dishes. And I wont do the dishes and let him eat.
  11. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Perhaps it is a very good thing Cory is out of town right now. No way in heck Tony can lay blame at his feet.

    Higher bills are going to nag at Tony, that hurts where it the wallet. And Buck is not contributing. The missing items are going to continue because buckaroo thinks he has Tony in his back will add up eventually. (valuable or not) Plus Buck not doing what he is supposed to do? Sounds like Buck thinks he's riding high.......if he continues, it's going to drive your point home for you.

    As far as cooking? Phht. You don't run a restaurant. It's your house, your food, your money. You eat what you'd normally eat and Buck can deal with it. I told katie and M in front of their kids that I don't coddle anyone. I make good meals, eat them or go hungry. They ate. All of them. No complaints.
  12. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Janet, hide anything you love. Tell Billy to do the same. It's not going to stop.
    So sorry.

    Im glad Cory's gone too.

  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Billy is also missing the silver ring I got him for his 30 th birthday. He had set it on his computer desk next to his monitor. Oh Tony just gave me the green light to throw a fit and set buck straight about his duties.
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Sounds like Tony is starting to see the light, which is a good thing.
    But it does mean you need to be extra vigilent, as Buck will likely get more desperate.
  15. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    I feel so bad for you, Janet!

    I would rather loose something of monetary value than something of sentimental value.

    My 20yo difficult child step-son stole a sword that I had stored for my grown son. We didn't notice till much later after we had kicked difficult child out. I still think about that sometimes, and feel so hurt that he did that to me after all that I had done for him.
  16. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Tony gave YOU the green light to throw a fit? It is TONY"S JOB to throw that fit. Don't you DARE have that fit. You make Tony do it. Buck is TONY"S responsibility, not yours. Tony wants him there, wants to coddle him, and won't toss him out. So it is TONY"S responsibility to make him do the chores. HEck, tell Tony that you don't think Buck is smart enough to remember if you throw a fit, but he might if Tony does b/cTony is his brother and a big, strong man and can throw a bigger fit.

    Yes, I know that last sentence is pure BS, but it flatters Tony and uses Tony's belief that Buck is retarded. Tony cannot tell you Buck is retarded and then expect Buck to behave as though he understands. It can only be one way or the other.

    Plus, if you have the fit, how is that different from yesterday? None of your fits have worked, because Tony thinks you are 'too hard' on 'poor Buck'. So make Tony responsible for the fit. Then tell Tony you want him to start taking you around to pawn shops to see if any of your silver was pawned. If it is, and you find it with-o Tony, then maybe you pawned it. If Tony is there, sees it for himself, then he is going to have to really face the facts.

    Tony wants you to be the Mommy throwing the fits. Make him be the Daddy instead.
  17. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Ditto Susie.

    Oh, NO he DOESN'T! Tony doesn't get to back out of his responsibility so easily! He wants Buck put into his place, then he can be the one to put him there. YOU get yelled at, remember? by Tony for doing so every time he is ticked at you. So now HE gets to do it all by himself.

    You don't get to be designated the Bad Guy while Tony gets to stay the Good Guy. Nope. Nada. No way. Tony doesn't get to have his cake and eat it too, ya know.
  18. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Amen Susie, wise words
  19. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I should have read these responses earlier because you guys were oh so right. I am definitely going to have to record every word I say to Buck when Tony isnt here. While Tony gave me the green light I was actually quite nice. I simply walked down to his room, knocked on his door, asked him if he had plans for the day and when he barked at me that he was calling the doctor I then asked him if he was planning on doing the kitchen today. He snarled yes. I said okay and told him I was leaving because I had a doctors appointment myself and dinner was going in the crockpot.

    I ended up having to come back home after my psychiatrist appointment because half the things I needed for the meal somehow disappeared. I was missing two onions, a can of french onion soup and a condensed beef stock thing. I have no idea where they went. This was a pain because my time was really tight because Monday was Keyana's first gymnastics class. So I rush in to dump all my new ingredients in the pot and Buck is whining because he cant find the sugar canister.

    He says he has looked everywhere for our big, glass sugar jar and his tone is very accusatory like I have hid it from him. He claims he has looked everywhere including the freezer. I looked at him like he has two heads because the jar is huge and my freezer on the fridge is smaller especially as full as it is...then he says...the big freezer. Im like why would anyone put the sugar jar in the freezer? I asked him if he had checked his room. He said "you were the last one to use it" what? I had a bowl of cereal on Sunday morning. Im sure he has had coffee since then since he drinks like 8 cups a day but the last time I saw it was beside the sink. I dont clean the kitchen. He does.

    I actually spent a few precious minutes looking myself then I went in the pantry and stuck my hand in and got out both honey and that agar stuff and told him he could use those in a pinch. Problem was, someone had moved my Ninja blades down onto the same shelf as those items and I didnt see them and they are sharp as razors and I cut my finger badly. I would have never moved them that low on shelves because the kids can reach them and they could be cut badly. Ugh.

    Of course, I got mad over that and when I got home I was still being asked about the sugar and so I turned around and said "Ya know Buck, if you needed sugar that badly you could go to the store and buy some." To that Tony replied "well that would require that he have some money now wouldnt it?" I said well he seems to come up with money for cigarettes and gas so Im sure he could come up with a buck fifty for a small bag of sugar if he needed sugar so badly.

    Then we were watching some show about Alaska on TV and the promo came on about the reality show Combat Medics (I think thats the name) and he said the most awful thing. He said something like...I wonder if they really show arms and legs being blown off because I would really like to see that. If its a reality show they should show that. Then he was saying something about how when the people in the military go over to Iraq they sometimes have to shoot kids. I just replied...yeah, that is a horrible thing but they are trained to deal with that. Then he looked at me and said so they train them to kill kids? OMG! That is not what I said at all. I just held up my hand and said I am NOT going to discuss this with you because I will end up in a fight.
  20. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Perhaps Buck on drugs is a very different Buck depending on the types of drugs Buck takes. Know what I mean?? What Buck said was very disturbing, especially about children. Now if you could get him to repeat that around Tony....... he might have the fine hairs on the back of his neck go up. Who on earth would want to see a child harmed or even discuss it?

    Do not ever leave him alone with the grandkids, not even for a moment.