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butterflydreams

Guest
First of all, sending out prayers that your daughter comes home safely!

Second, welcome to the boards. I am sure you will find everyone very helpful and very welcoming.

HUGS!!

Christy
 

loosinghope2008

New Member
Using the great advice Marguerite provided, I tried to get insider my daughters head. I found in her room her list of all her online account info. Went to myspace and found her online. I sent her a message and told her if she called home now she could avoid major trouble. Shockingly she replied. I'm trying to take it easy and told her should could stay where she was and come home after she ate. Hopefully this approach will work, although its very foreign to me.

But my concern is that where she was, I ask her if they knew she was there. She said yes. I told her that its considered harboring a runaway and that they could get in major trouble, especially in the town where I'm on council and head up the police dept.

Anyway, i'm trying not to get worked up and letting her spend time with this friend, who I think is a good influence. But not sure how much I can keep myself from loosing it!

It feels like I'm in a bad soap opera!!!!!!
 

meowbunny

New Member
I wouldn't threaten the friend's family since you feel this is a safe place for her to be. The odds are they thought she had permission. You might ask them to check with you if she goes over there again to make sure this is okay.

As much as it goes against what you believe parenting is all about, this could be a win situation for you. It will make your daughter a little more secure in asking you permission another day and lets her know you're not a complete idiot -- you did find her.

When she gets home, try to have a calm discussion about the fact she needs to let you know how to reach her if for no other reason that emergencies happen and it is simple courtesy to let others know where you are.

Sadly for you, your daughter is at an age where she thinks she can make her own decisions. Of course she can't but we're talking her mind, not reality. So, if you let her make the decisions that are truly no harm, you have a better chance of getting her listen when it is a big issue.

Good luck! Personally, I think the teen years bite -- both for the parents and the child.
 

KTMom91

Well-Known Member
I'm a bit late to the thread, but wanted to add my welcome. I'm currently going through some similar things, and I check in several times a day. I know the people here understand.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
You did a good thing in your communication with her.

What she needs to learn to do (and this should apply to ALL family members, including parents) is make sure someone knows where you can be contacted at all times. it's also important to let people know if you're going to be home for dinner, purely for catering purposes. Don't make people guess.

If you have house rules that apply to EVERYBODY (such as "always put the toilet seat down after use, no matter what gender you are") then nobody can complain they are being singled out. it's also good practice for living independently later on, whether with flatmates or alone. We may feel we don't need other people; but other people need us.

When she comes home, let her know you were worried about her, you had no way of knowing if she had met with an accident or worse. You have enough to worry about, any worries which can be eased are a bonus.

If she didn't tell you for fear you'd have insisted she come home, maybe you need to work out an agreement with her to allow her SOME freedoms, especially if it's with a friend you feel you can trust. If she's going to play up on you, going to have sex, she will do it even if you tell her not to. The best you can do is to make her take on board the sexual responsibility required also. For example, as soon as I realised each of my daughters was sexually active, I first got hr on the Pill and second, organised regular Pap smears. I also talked to them about sexual and emotional responsibility and how to not hurt a guy emotionally (and also how to not get hurt). easy child 2/difficult child 2 was an unconscious 'tease', she had no idea what a devastating effect she had on a guy, especially one as vulnerable as her first boyfriend. So when their relationship started going sour, it hit him the hardest even though he was the one to break up with her. Two years later she's engaged to someone else and he STILL isn't over her.

I also talked to my girls about the risks of UTIs and how to prevent them - having sex and thinking that's all there is to it, is an unrealistic fantasy. But the girl emptying her bladder within fifteen minutes of sex is one of the best preventives. If she DOES get a Urinary Tract Infection (UTI) she needs to know the symptoms and to know what to do, fast. A Urinary Tract Infection (UTI) that goes up to the kidney because it got neglected for a few days can make you very sick and put you in hospital.

I also took them shopping to buy condoms. This was fun (for me) and embarrassing (for them). In Australia we can buy condoms in the supermarket, next to the toothpaste and deodorant, just above after-shave, one aisle along from jam and peanut butter. So here we were, in the supermarket where we usually go (and where the staff know us) and I was asking the kids, "Do you want coloured ones or ribbed? Avoid Brand Y, they're too thick and the guys can't feel a thing, he won't like them. What about flavoured? No, not banana. It's got amyl acetate as flavouring, it tastes awful."

It totally took the romance out of it and made them really think about whether they really want to do this, in the cold hard light of day. It also made it clear that they were NOT the result of Immaculate Conception, kids like to think they invented sex and being reminded that their parents (and grandparents!) must have done 'it' at some stage and probably still are, really puts them off.

I figure it bought me at least another six months...

Getting back to her not coming home - it seems to me the main problems was her failing to tell you and keep you 'in the loop'. I wouldn't class it as 'harbouring a runaway' if they don't know she's AWOL. Again, this could be a cultural difference here. Where we live, kids often drop in on friends after school and parents know this and say, "If I need to get in touch with you I will assume you're either at Jackie's place or Ben's. If you're not going to be home by 5 pm, let me know so I can work that into my plans."

You could set up an arrangement with her to give you a quick ring (or text message) if she changes her plans suddenly. It happens to all of us - we meet a friend who says, "Have you got a minute? I just have to show you a new dress/curtains/lounge suite I bought, it's to DIE for!" Then when a minute begins to turn into an hour, we should let people know where we are in case we're needed or people are getting worried.

This is adult responsibility. It's almost the opposite of child monitoring.

You say your husband has a short fuse - that isn't good. But we've been there a certain amount as well. What happens if you try to implement "The Explosive Child" methods and you're good at it but he isn't, is she will see YOU as an ally but him as a problem. He will suddenly find himself the intense focus of all her hostility.

The same thing will happen with anyone who isn't on the same page. But it WILL be working with you.

You can also use the same technique on easy child kids. Of course, you will have different baskets for them, but you don't have lists pasted up everywhere, only you (and maybe the child) know what you're working on with each one.

You don't need to be organised or tidy (crikey, we're not!) but you DO need to be consistent within yourself and with the child. If you're not, then explain, apologise, it is LIFE, really.

Example: today, difficult child 3 & I were shopping for his reward, Wii point cards. His usual reward is a large packet of Maltesers. He's not been cashing in his reward points but instead has been hoarding them. He had ten points hoarded (he gets on average two or three a week). I had tentatively agreed to buy him a 20,000 Wii points card (for $20, he told me) as toughly equivalent to four reward points. But when shopping today, the price was higher - one shop charged $35. Even difficult child 3 (to his credit) said, "No way."
When we found cards at $27.80, I said to him, "It costs more. You can wait until we can buy them for $20 each, or we can buy these ones but you will have to pay more points for them, it's really too much."
So he looked in the shop to find out how much Maltesers cost ($4.70) and I roughly calculated (while a bit distracted) and said, "that's at least five credit points per card, then."
"That's OK, I have ten credit points."

But when we got to the shop and the girl rang up the price, I realised I was being too generous. I was able to say to him, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake. I should have said these two cards together are eleven points."
He could have thrown a tantrum, but instead he said, "Then can I have one card now, and you keep the other one until I earn another point? That will be fair."

Two years ago, that wouldn't have happened. He would have insisted on getting absolutely everything he had pushed me to promise.

And why did difficult child 3 amass so many points? Because husband was unwilling at first to allow Wii points to be used as reward. It's mainly between me and husband, it's very much husband's caution and it was beginning to cause some friction with difficult child 3. But husband has learned in the past two years and so has difficult child 3. Both are now more patient with each other. There are still fairly frequent blow-ups butt increasingly, husband is keeping his temper, staying calm and talking difficult child 3 through it.

I do understand your trepidation about going away for a short while. I've felt the same concerns, many times. It's not just husband (who is handling things well now) it's also very much easy child 2/difficult child 2 and sometimes even easy child. Sometimes all it takes is a tone in the voice and difficult child 3 digs his heels in and gets angry. Then it's screaming match and slamming doors.

In our household, I'm the only one to have read "The Explosive Child". husband tried but couldn't stay awake. He had a lot of trouble sticking with it, even though he was highly motivated. As for the adult kids - no interest, no time.

What did I do? I summarised it. I wrote a review (available if you want - PM me) and also explained it to them, over and over. And in doing that, it helped ME get a good understanding of it as well.

You can't walk around the house with a book in your hand. You need to have the information and ideas in your head. Writing it down, explaining it to someone else and even discussing how it works with someone else can be the best way to help you take in on board and make it second nature.

I know a lot of difficult child 3's triggers are anxiety and frustration. He's worse when his medications aren't on board. The next two are almost as bad. Even husband at times...

difficult child 3 & I were at his school today for a study day (he's normally working at home, a correspondence student). The teachers at the school seem to work the same way I now do, although I don't think they've read the book. They were amazingly patient with difficult child 3 today, even though he wasn't on task. I was in the room with him, helping out where I could, soothing him down as he got anxious and helping settle the other kids who were beginning to feel frustrated with him. Due to the nature of the school, they get a lot of Aspie & autistic kids, but it's a big mix - other kids there today are performers, dancers & singers who attend a combined performer training/correspondence school. So the curriculum is mainstream. Very different way of doing things,

But I digress - you're getting help, which is good. You need more, which takes time and energy. We're here. You could benefit from getting your husband to come here too. It helped mine enormously, he lurks and reads everything I post and if he doesn't agree with me, he talks to me about it. Often I will post something here and he hasn't been told about it yet, or I might think of something and post here and we might never have talked about it, because it has always seemed so minor. Also, we're both often so busy at home that we don't get to talk as much as we should. We can lock ourselves in the bedroom to talk, but keep getting interrupted by kids pounding on the door or dinner burning. By the time we have time, we could be falling asleep!

husband now posts in his own right ("Marg's Man") because it was confusing to me when the site would tell me if I'd read any updates or not, and maybe I hadn't, but HE had!

The sexuality thing is probably bugging him even more than it bugs you. Fathers especially don't like to think of strange males pawing at their daughter (or even thinking about her as anything other than small, pink and frilly). But girls will be girls. I would have loved it if my girls had 'waited until marriage' but society has moved on these days and despite their upbringing, they made their own choices. We had to accept that or lose them. To stand firm and insist they remain virgins while under our roof - they would have just lied to us and gone sneaking around, which would have been VERY unsafe. At least now they can come and talk to us about any problems they may have. Now both girls will come and ask me questions about their sexual health; or if they feel too shy, they will now take themselves to the doctor to ask. easy child now lives in another city so she goes to the doctor by herself, but most of the time easy child 2/difficult child 2 will ask me to stay with her, even for a Pap smear. I've had the doctor send me out of the room so he can ask my daughter if she needs to say anything to him without me knowing about it - she usually laughs and calls me back in. The doctors have been a bit surprised by this but I'm glad it's working this way.
It wasn't easy to begin with. husband & I got very sore backs from sleeping on the floor outside her bedroom door! Then we woke up to ourselves, gave up and got her protection.

Marg
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
Loosing hope -

You said "Regardless of how much help we get she's never going to get any better." I want you to know that statement is not accurate. Or healthy for you.

I found some hope I had extra - so I'm giving you a boat load full of hope. A new batch.....just fer yew.

And if I can have hope - (oh you'd have to know our story) YOU can have hope - and here it is....

HOPE

(sent by boatload)
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
Also - as far as your daughter is concerned NOT returning -

LEGALLY you have to call the police and report her as a runaway or missing.

It also starts a paper trail showing incorrigibility so that down the road you have a point of reference for gaining access to assistance.

If you have not called the police - CALL THEM -
Call them EVERY DAY she is not home or found.

Update us when you can.
 

loosinghope2008

New Member
Thank you again for all your worderful responses. I can't express how much I appreciate it.

Thanks for the good idea to point my hubby to this site. I think he could really benefit from it. Its already helping me. :)

Today my head is killing me. I was up til 3 in the morning with my mind racing. I had to cancel my plans to go away this weekend for a conference. Just called the town manager and had to explain. How embarassing! And it also cost the town money they already put up. But I felt there was no way I could leave my child when she seems to be in the throws of crisis.

I also had a personal incident of concern. When I was talkin' to my daughter, several times during the discusion I got majorly light headed. I thought I was gonna pass out. I think the stress is just getting to me.

I'm also struggling with battling off that feeling of depression. I am conscience that its a possibility, so I'm trying to talk more with my friends and this site is helping.

You say your husband has a short fuse - that isn't good. But we've been there a certain amount as well. What happens if you try to implement "The Explosive Child" methods and you're good at it but he isn't, is she will see YOU as an ally but him as a problem. He will suddenly find himself the intense focus of all her hostility.

Its definately an area of concern. He is not handling all this well. He has resigned himself to not really talkin' to her much at all, which isn't good. And when they do talk, it ends up being a blow up. I feel I must always be the mediator. Its hard cause while I see my husbands side, I realize he is outright wrong in his actions and is only adding to the problems. My daughter is incredibly disrespectful to him. I must be "on" at all times and it becomes very exhausting. I try to talk to my hubby about how he's handling things but he doesn't seem to really get it. He thinks she does this all on purpose and that she just needs to stop it. UGH!

Also - as far as your daughter is concerned NOT returning -

LEGALLY you have to call the police and report her as a runaway or missing.

It also starts a paper trail showing incorrigibility so that down the road you have a point of reference for gaining access to assistance.

If you have not called the police - CALL THEM -
Call them EVERY DAY she is not home or found.

Well I know that, but since I do work closely with the police in a professional realm, its a little embarassing. This is a very small town and the gossip mill will run rampant if I have to keep involving the police. Its a struggle in my head to do what is necessary and what will cause me the least amount of embarassment.

by the way - I just want to add one thing. When I was reading my daughters myspace page, under the category of who are your Heros, she listed Jesus and my mom. I was shocked to read that. She must on some level understand that I love her and am trying to help her, even though she doesn't show it. It gave me a little bit of encouragement to read that.

Thanks again for all your replies, much appreciated. I hope I'm not being a pest yet. ;)
 

susiestar

Roll With It
Hi! I want to add my welcome. This certainly is the right place for parents with kids like ours. I am very sorry you need us though.

I realize that embarrassment is a factor for all of us. And, being closely tied to the town council and the police may make the feeling more intense. I think most of us have had to work through the embarrassment and figure out how to handle it. More parents than you realize are going through this embarrassment in different ways and for different reasons.

It sounds as though your daughter needs a more thorough evaluation. It is rare for a person to be diagnosed with Conduct Disorder before age 18. The diagnostic manual for this (DSM whatever issue) has the age as a criteria, or it did when I last looked at it.

ODD is a set of behaviors that can come with many many many physical and emotional and mental health problems. Rarely is it a stand-alone diagnosis. Many of us find that the ODD gets better when the underlying issue is correctly treated.

I know you mentioned that they ruled out biploar because she doesn't have all the criteria. The issues you mention make it seem possible that she does have bipolar, esp with the hypersexuality, and the family history.

If she is bipolar, the medications she is on may be contributing to the problem. Most of the guidelines for treating people iwth bipolar call for stabilizing htis, and THEN adding stimulants, antidepressants, etc... This is because the stims and A/Ds can cause mood cycling. Of course, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is treated with antidepressants like paxil.

In addition to The Explosive Child, I would suggest reading The Bipolar Child by Papalous. The Bipolar Child gives a great explanation of the many medications used with difficult children, and of the way the brain and brain chemistry works.

Please go to www.loveandlogic.com and check out Love and Logic. The website is very helpful (for my family anyway). The things for teachers were helpful for us also - be sure to check them out! They have a variety of books (including one for parenting teens!) and audio books and videos. This is the method that got my husband and I on the same page. He was able to use this to help understand our difficult child. It really really helped as he had NO patience with difficult child, and we were on different books, not just different pages!

We are NOT going to get tired of you. You are NOT a pest. We all take what we need and give back what we can, when we can.

Hugs,

Susie
 

loosinghope2008

New Member
I just received a call from her case manager who said she met with my daughters psychiatrist. The psychiatrist is recommended long term placement in a treatment facility. I know my daughter doesn't want to go away. I'm torn between feeling she needs more intensive care and feeling like a failure as a parent. I wish I knew what the right thing to do was.
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
IF

If you ignore the psychiatrist's recommendation and keep her home -

Ask yourself IF keeping her home up to this point has worked
Ask yourself IF your health can weather her intensifying behaviors
Ask yourself IF by keeping her out of placement has helped already
Ask yourself IF she can do more things that will embarrass her/you
Ask yourself IF she doesn't go how are you equipped to deal with her
Ask yourself IF you let her go can you handle the I hate you's vs good mental health for her

Ask yourself IF being a Mom and making hard decisions for the welfare of our children absolutely inhales violently - and that answer is yes.

The "what" that she has isn't going to go away over night. It's a life-long committment on her part to continually seek services for her anger, her emotions, her good mental health. Mental illness isn't a cureable disease, but it's symptoms can be controlled IF the person with the problem gets help AND participates in wanting to be well.

If you send her - will she get better? (((shrug)) that is up to her. Just because she goes does not mean she'll be helped. She has to get tired of being her and want /accept help. Then listen and follow what she's told.

If you send her - she could just sit there and do nothing - I know this because my son has been to several since he was 6. None seemed to help at the time, but most have had their advantages of planting seeds of thought in his head for when he matured - the seeds did too.

Tough spot - Hugs
Star
 

Marguerite

Active Member
You're currently walking a very fine line between trying to handle your daughter gently, and not undermining your husband. Whatever you do, you need to present a united front. If you have to discuss differences of opinion about discipline, don't do it in her hearing. If you have already done this, it could be part of the reason why she disrespects him.

Another big part of the reason is what I have already outlined - a lot of parents discipline using justice, which is seen by some kids as revenge. They view punishments such as grounding, loss of privileges etc as someone in authority flexing muscle and being unfair. This leads to increasing disrespect, etc.

You can get quickly caught up in the "good cop, bad cop" scenario, and husband could increasingly resent you as his job becomes more difficult. This could make him even stricter, because he feels he has to compensate for your 'softness'. And so on.

Drag him here if you can, show him the PM I sent you and anything else you feel will help him. Try to not criticise him here if you want him to read here - the aim is for you and he to work as an effective team, and if you can follow the guide it should make things easier, not more difficult - for both of you.

Marg
 

loosinghope2008

New Member
We just returned from my daughter's psychiatrist appointment. She really wants my daughter to go to a long-term treatment facility. We have an appointment scheduled with my minister on Wednesday for some counseling.

Last night my daughter had a real nice long sit down talk. She really spoke openly. She said she feels she doesn't have any true friends and is struggling to fit in. She said it got worse after her last placement which was around Thanksgiving and she was out of school for 3 weeks. She said she faced alot of ridicule when she returned and has gotten herself a bad reputation. She said alot of people don't want to be around her and its making her feel worse about herself. I tried to explain that she needs to really work on herself and how she's acting towards her peers. She needs to stop all the drama and lying and engaging in gossip. I told her if they're talkin' about other girls, they're probably talkin' about her behind her back. Best if she not engage at all.

I made the decision to withdraw her from her band trip which was scheduled for the end of this month, they were going to Nashville. I just didn't feel she could be trusted that far away. It was rough cause we lost alot of money for that decision, but I feel it was for the best. She's pretty bummed out about it.

I still haven't made up my mind on what I'm going to do with her. I have re-read this thread again and am really trying to absorb everything. I appreciate all the support and advice.

My daughter's therapist will be here later this afternoon, so we'll go over this long-term placement option in more detail.
 

loosinghope2008

New Member
Sorry I went MIA. When it rains it pours!!! My life has been no less chaotic and I fear I'm at the breaking point.

My best friends mother passed away. My youngest son was rushed to the ER after falling. My husband has been on edge something fierce. And my daughter has been up to her tricks getting on the phone and computer.

I just feel so overwhelmed.
 

MrsMcNear46

New Member
Oh my how I know when it rains it pours. Your daughter sounds alot like mine did at her age. I did chose long term placement in a christian facility. She didn't come back a easy child but really worked hard at the program and came away more stable than she had been in years.

She is now 19, living 350 miles from home with her boyfriend, is successful and making the President's list at college. Just wanted to mention that so you can know that maturity and treatment can sometimes make a HUGE difference.

Prayers and Blessings,

Mrs.McNear
 

CrazyinVA

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Wanted to add my welcome, also. I'm glad Susie mentioned looking into bipolar again.. because the sexual behavior jumped out at me in one of your posts. My youngest had a real problem with hypersexuality at one point, and it's a common manic trait.

You are not a failure. You are a great parent who is doing everything humanly possible to get your child the help she needs. Parenting a difficult child is exhausting, physically and emotionally. We've all felt hopeless at one time or another. I'm glad you've found this place.
 

Baffled

New Member
I'm also new here. Found you guys by accident. Having a hard time pulling myself away from the boards. Such great support and advice! The two books Marguerite mentioned are great. They've helped me tremendously. I think you handled the deal with not returning home great. It seems weird having to compromise and do things differently with difficult children, but if it works and brings peace--oh well. I've learned to do it. I can't rule difficult child with an iron fist. It doesn"t work. easy child different story-I only had to give him the LOOK and he'd obey mostly. About the long-term facility--are you ready for that? I know my last psychiatrist wanted to know if I had lined up a boarding school for next year and when was I going to do it? I told her when and if I felt it was the right time to do it. And I would do it when and if I feel it was appropriate. So search your heart and mind to decide if and when it is right.
 
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