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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 34603" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Hi and welcome. You said, " His issues in school have always been 'acting out', 'attention getting behaviors',... "</p><p></p><p>I know it's easy for some people (schools love to do this!) to call this "attention-seeking" but when you have a kid with anxiety you can get reactions like this if you push their buttons too hard. The trouble is, you don't always know ahead of time what will push their buttons. Just as they're not doing it on purpose, neither are you.</p><p></p><p>A book that gets recommended a lot here is "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It can totally change your understanding of your child, and in doing so makes it easier to head off these sort of behaviours. It's not a cure, but it can be a huge help. And once you learn to help him prevent the explosive reactions to feeling threatened or overwhelmed, you can see what is left, which makes dealing with him and getting help a lot easier - there is a less 'noisy signal', so to speak.</p><p></p><p>He has just lost his sitter and will be sad about this. He will also be anxious - who will help look after him now? But make sure that you don't punish him further - he is punished enough, just by losing her. And it is all a matter of direct consequences for his own behaviour. Do not let him successfully blame any of you in any way, he has to own this. But stay calm when you talk to him, talk to him with the respect you wish he would show to you and don't react if he begins to get angry or upset. He needs to learn self-control, but when you react or punish, you make his anxiety worse, which makes it even harder for him to control himself. And frankly, when he gets angry he is NOT dealing with the problem. The current consequences of getting angry are actually letting him off dealing with the main triggers, because the problems then escalate so fat that he no longer has to deal with the cause.</p><p></p><p>For example, this latest big rage was triggered when you were talking about fines for bad behaviour. In his head, he was probably thinking, "How can I handle THIS? I can't control my moods!!?! I'll be broke and bankrupt within five minutes of them bringing this in! It's just not fair!" I suspect he's also saving up for something that he really wants, and this would hurt him badly. In his mind, he then begins to panic that he'll NEVER reach his goal, with you and husband handing out fines. His anxiety then escalates to the point where fines or no fines, you now have a lot more serious issues to worry about. I suspect you never went back and revisited the subject of fines - and frankly, there is no point, in my mind. He's now lost so much that a fine is nothing, now, by comparison.</p><p></p><p>The thing is, he really does sound out of control. This is impulsivity and raging. If he could control himself, he would. If he had been able to think clearly, he would surely have realised that even without punishments, there were going to be dire consequences for him. But once started, he just couldn't stop. Punishing him for what he couldn't stop is adding cruelty into the picture and taking away even more control, when his grip on control is already flimsy.</p><p></p><p>But so often, our discipline methods are aimed to punish what we call bad behaviour. We were brought up this way and we turned out OK, so it must be good, right? Maybe for a lot of kids, but there are some for whom this is disaster.</p><p>Not punishing them is not necessarily spoiling them. It's a matter of going back to basics. What do we want to achieve here? We want them to learn. We want him to learn what is right and what is wrong, we want him to learn self-control, we want him to not rage at people, we want him to do well and be happy.</p><p>He's going nowhere until he begins to learn self-control. His locking his dad out of the sitter's house - he knew he was in trouble, he knew he was in the wrong. He just couldn't stop. So he DOES know right and wrong. No amount of further punishing is needed on this one. The problem is his anxiety tipping him into panic, and then raging. He can't be reasoned with while raging, so everything you do or say to him, especially if you're warning him to control himself, is only making him worse. Once he calms down, THEN you can sometimes say, "Let's talk," and ask him to try and SAY what is upsetting him, because nothing should be set in concrete until you can work it out together. If you can involve him in a behaviour management method, then he has some ownership of it and is more likely to listen to you when he is calmer. When he learns that your aim is to help him learn to stay calm and to help him learn self-control, he will have more trust in you (right now, he doesn't trust anyone, including himself).</p><p></p><p>He's facing consequences right now. He's probably remorseful at some level, although he may be using denial to cope with a lot of the really bad feelings he must have about himself. But without using blame (because not every situation requires blame, and using it all the time teaches them to try and blame someone else, because that's what people do to them) try and talk to him about his lack of self-control. No blame - it's just what IS. Does he have any thoughts about this? What does he want to do about it? How does he feel? All you're doing is listening, and trying to support and help. Discuss with him what HE feels should happen. If you find any bravado, any level of bluster, try and gently hose it down and ask him to be realistic. Remind him you're not blaming, but this must be discussed rationally with him because it can't continue. You want him to be helped, you want this to stop and you recognise he's not able to do this alone.</p><p></p><p>He sounds like a bright kid. I hope this works.</p><p></p><p>If you can, read the discussion on "Explosive Child" in Early Childhood. I'm sure there's something there. In the archives, if nowhere else. I strongly suspect you are going to have to change your thinking about discipline. Not that you've been doing it wrong, but probably it's been wrong FOR HIM. The good news - the technique you need to use is also fine for 'normal' kids. And I found it's easier, getting easier all the time as you start winning and he starts to gain self-control.</p><p></p><p>It's not in a child's nature, as a rule, to want to be bad. They want to be good, they want to be loved and they know that bad behaviour makes them unlovable. All you need to do is show him you love him and want to support him in his aim to gain self-control and be better behaved as a result. It's a start.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 34603, member: 1991"] Hi and welcome. You said, " His issues in school have always been 'acting out', 'attention getting behaviors',... " I know it's easy for some people (schools love to do this!) to call this "attention-seeking" but when you have a kid with anxiety you can get reactions like this if you push their buttons too hard. The trouble is, you don't always know ahead of time what will push their buttons. Just as they're not doing it on purpose, neither are you. A book that gets recommended a lot here is "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It can totally change your understanding of your child, and in doing so makes it easier to head off these sort of behaviours. It's not a cure, but it can be a huge help. And once you learn to help him prevent the explosive reactions to feeling threatened or overwhelmed, you can see what is left, which makes dealing with him and getting help a lot easier - there is a less 'noisy signal', so to speak. He has just lost his sitter and will be sad about this. He will also be anxious - who will help look after him now? But make sure that you don't punish him further - he is punished enough, just by losing her. And it is all a matter of direct consequences for his own behaviour. Do not let him successfully blame any of you in any way, he has to own this. But stay calm when you talk to him, talk to him with the respect you wish he would show to you and don't react if he begins to get angry or upset. He needs to learn self-control, but when you react or punish, you make his anxiety worse, which makes it even harder for him to control himself. And frankly, when he gets angry he is NOT dealing with the problem. The current consequences of getting angry are actually letting him off dealing with the main triggers, because the problems then escalate so fat that he no longer has to deal with the cause. For example, this latest big rage was triggered when you were talking about fines for bad behaviour. In his head, he was probably thinking, "How can I handle THIS? I can't control my moods!!?! I'll be broke and bankrupt within five minutes of them bringing this in! It's just not fair!" I suspect he's also saving up for something that he really wants, and this would hurt him badly. In his mind, he then begins to panic that he'll NEVER reach his goal, with you and husband handing out fines. His anxiety then escalates to the point where fines or no fines, you now have a lot more serious issues to worry about. I suspect you never went back and revisited the subject of fines - and frankly, there is no point, in my mind. He's now lost so much that a fine is nothing, now, by comparison. The thing is, he really does sound out of control. This is impulsivity and raging. If he could control himself, he would. If he had been able to think clearly, he would surely have realised that even without punishments, there were going to be dire consequences for him. But once started, he just couldn't stop. Punishing him for what he couldn't stop is adding cruelty into the picture and taking away even more control, when his grip on control is already flimsy. But so often, our discipline methods are aimed to punish what we call bad behaviour. We were brought up this way and we turned out OK, so it must be good, right? Maybe for a lot of kids, but there are some for whom this is disaster. Not punishing them is not necessarily spoiling them. It's a matter of going back to basics. What do we want to achieve here? We want them to learn. We want him to learn what is right and what is wrong, we want him to learn self-control, we want him to not rage at people, we want him to do well and be happy. He's going nowhere until he begins to learn self-control. His locking his dad out of the sitter's house - he knew he was in trouble, he knew he was in the wrong. He just couldn't stop. So he DOES know right and wrong. No amount of further punishing is needed on this one. The problem is his anxiety tipping him into panic, and then raging. He can't be reasoned with while raging, so everything you do or say to him, especially if you're warning him to control himself, is only making him worse. Once he calms down, THEN you can sometimes say, "Let's talk," and ask him to try and SAY what is upsetting him, because nothing should be set in concrete until you can work it out together. If you can involve him in a behaviour management method, then he has some ownership of it and is more likely to listen to you when he is calmer. When he learns that your aim is to help him learn to stay calm and to help him learn self-control, he will have more trust in you (right now, he doesn't trust anyone, including himself). He's facing consequences right now. He's probably remorseful at some level, although he may be using denial to cope with a lot of the really bad feelings he must have about himself. But without using blame (because not every situation requires blame, and using it all the time teaches them to try and blame someone else, because that's what people do to them) try and talk to him about his lack of self-control. No blame - it's just what IS. Does he have any thoughts about this? What does he want to do about it? How does he feel? All you're doing is listening, and trying to support and help. Discuss with him what HE feels should happen. If you find any bravado, any level of bluster, try and gently hose it down and ask him to be realistic. Remind him you're not blaming, but this must be discussed rationally with him because it can't continue. You want him to be helped, you want this to stop and you recognise he's not able to do this alone. He sounds like a bright kid. I hope this works. If you can, read the discussion on "Explosive Child" in Early Childhood. I'm sure there's something there. In the archives, if nowhere else. I strongly suspect you are going to have to change your thinking about discipline. Not that you've been doing it wrong, but probably it's been wrong FOR HIM. The good news - the technique you need to use is also fine for 'normal' kids. And I found it's easier, getting easier all the time as you start winning and he starts to gain self-control. It's not in a child's nature, as a rule, to want to be bad. They want to be good, they want to be loved and they know that bad behaviour makes them unlovable. All you need to do is show him you love him and want to support him in his aim to gain self-control and be better behaved as a result. It's a start. Marg [/QUOTE]
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