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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 12782" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>G'day, mate. Your lad sounds a lot like my difficult child 1 back when he was about 16. Given your son's placements - if he turns out to be High-Functioning Autism (HFA) then that plus those placements would have been at least partly responsible for at least some of the ODD and the deep depression. With the right help these two things can be reversed or at least eased.</p><p></p><p>I know there are concerns about ADs but Zoloft was brilliant for difficult child 1. It does depend on what the real problem is, deep down, and what works for each kid. And although it's not supposed to work quite that fast, we found it was fairly quick - any changes were noticed within a day or two, at least by difficult child 1.</p><p></p><p>The other thing we found - he was basically a good kid, cooperative and good-natured - who could quickly lash out violently both verbally and physically when upset or off his dex. Now he's older he has a better sense of his own body and mind and is managing better. But if we lived in the US I'm sure he would have been hospitalised too, at least partly due to his violent attacks. Following an attack he would get extremely depressed and angry with himself for losing control and hurting people he loves - this was even more frightening, because that was when he began cutting himself, or tattooing his hand or arm with a pin or knife. he didn't just cut lines, he would carve patterns in his skin.</p><p></p><p>It sounds like something is working, at least for now. Can you get him thoroughly evaluated while he is there?</p><p></p><p>Something I found with our son - although the outward signs were behaviour, the problem wasn't behavioural. The school labelled it as behaviour and shoved him together with other kids who were a behaviour problem (like quarantining them), and then did nothing except fear the boys in this group. Fortunately for difficult child 1, I'm sure that most of the boys in this group are Aspie or severe ADHD, not primarily behaviour. As a result, some deep friendships have formed and they support each other (more than t he school ever did). They are extremely honest with each other, which is NOT what your son would have experienced in a behaviour placement. A school for ADHD kids CAN be good, or it can be swamped with kids who have a wrong diagnosis and who are working the system to their own advantage. The risks of bullying are immense. And if your son has been ostracised or bullied, either by staff or students, it's going to make any apparent ODD seem a lot worse.</p><p></p><p>Punishments generally don't work. Rewards have to be carefully handled so as to not get out of control or seem insincere. What works best is learning self-control, which in kids like this has to be done extremely carefully and with high involvement.</p><p></p><p>Some suggestions - </p><p></p><p>1) get hold of "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Get it out of the library first, if you're fed up with people always recommending books and don't want to buy everything you're told to read. People on this site in general find this book very helpful. It doesn't work for everybody, it won't necessarily make it all better, but it has helped us enormously.</p><p></p><p>2) If you can, get your wife to post here and read your posts. It works for me and my husband - we thought we were in close communication before. Now we're so in sync it's scary (to other people).</p><p></p><p>3) Trust your instincts. The way you handled the medication shows you have a good scientific mind and are using it, which is more than can be said for some psychiatrists.</p><p></p><p>4) Keep notes. Keep your own written record and diary of what is happening. Even the stuff you're sure you will remember - write it down.</p><p></p><p>5) When dealing with officials, educators, whoever - do it in writing, even if it's just to confirm a conversation you had. Over here we have educators who deliberately avoid putting things in writing, so they can later deny that they said anything. I would write them a letter and get a phone call in reply, even when I asked them to write in repply. So I began minuting the phone calls and conversations, then sending them a follow-up letter - "this is to confirm that when we spoke on xx/xx/xx you told me Y and I agreed to do that as long as you also implemented X. You agreed to do this. If my recollection is not correct please let me know in writing, for my records."</p><p>This scares the pants off them because they KNOW you are keeping them honest and their nose to the grindstone. And it's the way THEY should be doing things.</p><p></p><p>You are doing the absolute best you could be doing for your son. You won't always get it right, but neither do the experts. You and your wife are experts. So is your son. Nobody knows how to be him better than he does, and HE is finding it tough going. You are his best support and his best chance at eventually having a productive, happy, independent life - the ultimate goal of all parents.</p><p></p><p>Stay with us, we're here for you all.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 12782, member: 1991"] G'day, mate. Your lad sounds a lot like my difficult child 1 back when he was about 16. Given your son's placements - if he turns out to be High-Functioning Autism (HFA) then that plus those placements would have been at least partly responsible for at least some of the ODD and the deep depression. With the right help these two things can be reversed or at least eased. I know there are concerns about ADs but Zoloft was brilliant for difficult child 1. It does depend on what the real problem is, deep down, and what works for each kid. And although it's not supposed to work quite that fast, we found it was fairly quick - any changes were noticed within a day or two, at least by difficult child 1. The other thing we found - he was basically a good kid, cooperative and good-natured - who could quickly lash out violently both verbally and physically when upset or off his dex. Now he's older he has a better sense of his own body and mind and is managing better. But if we lived in the US I'm sure he would have been hospitalised too, at least partly due to his violent attacks. Following an attack he would get extremely depressed and angry with himself for losing control and hurting people he loves - this was even more frightening, because that was when he began cutting himself, or tattooing his hand or arm with a pin or knife. he didn't just cut lines, he would carve patterns in his skin. It sounds like something is working, at least for now. Can you get him thoroughly evaluated while he is there? Something I found with our son - although the outward signs were behaviour, the problem wasn't behavioural. The school labelled it as behaviour and shoved him together with other kids who were a behaviour problem (like quarantining them), and then did nothing except fear the boys in this group. Fortunately for difficult child 1, I'm sure that most of the boys in this group are Aspie or severe ADHD, not primarily behaviour. As a result, some deep friendships have formed and they support each other (more than t he school ever did). They are extremely honest with each other, which is NOT what your son would have experienced in a behaviour placement. A school for ADHD kids CAN be good, or it can be swamped with kids who have a wrong diagnosis and who are working the system to their own advantage. The risks of bullying are immense. And if your son has been ostracised or bullied, either by staff or students, it's going to make any apparent ODD seem a lot worse. Punishments generally don't work. Rewards have to be carefully handled so as to not get out of control or seem insincere. What works best is learning self-control, which in kids like this has to be done extremely carefully and with high involvement. Some suggestions - 1) get hold of "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Get it out of the library first, if you're fed up with people always recommending books and don't want to buy everything you're told to read. People on this site in general find this book very helpful. It doesn't work for everybody, it won't necessarily make it all better, but it has helped us enormously. 2) If you can, get your wife to post here and read your posts. It works for me and my husband - we thought we were in close communication before. Now we're so in sync it's scary (to other people). 3) Trust your instincts. The way you handled the medication shows you have a good scientific mind and are using it, which is more than can be said for some psychiatrists. 4) Keep notes. Keep your own written record and diary of what is happening. Even the stuff you're sure you will remember - write it down. 5) When dealing with officials, educators, whoever - do it in writing, even if it's just to confirm a conversation you had. Over here we have educators who deliberately avoid putting things in writing, so they can later deny that they said anything. I would write them a letter and get a phone call in reply, even when I asked them to write in repply. So I began minuting the phone calls and conversations, then sending them a follow-up letter - "this is to confirm that when we spoke on xx/xx/xx you told me Y and I agreed to do that as long as you also implemented X. You agreed to do this. If my recollection is not correct please let me know in writing, for my records." This scares the pants off them because they KNOW you are keeping them honest and their nose to the grindstone. And it's the way THEY should be doing things. You are doing the absolute best you could be doing for your son. You won't always get it right, but neither do the experts. You and your wife are experts. So is your son. Nobody knows how to be him better than he does, and HE is finding it tough going. You are his best support and his best chance at eventually having a productive, happy, independent life - the ultimate goal of all parents. Stay with us, we're here for you all. Marg [/QUOTE]
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