New member - Having a bad morning

Marguerite

Active Member
Truthsong, your first post to us was very expressive of your anger and frustration in the moment. However, we don't yet know you well so there will be some misconceptions. Hang in there, we do get it. Not everyone who comes here, especially to begin with, is as tuned in to their kid as you.

As you are indicating - loving your child doesn't necessarily mean liking your child all the time too. Oh boy, do we get that!

A point I really want to emphasise - if we say something like "you need to change your approach and really get into his head," that doesn't mean you're not already tuned in a great deal. But sometimes you need to take your knowledge of your child and rotate it through 90 degrees, then look again. What knowledge you already have, what understanding you already have, will always be greatly advantageous.

The toothpaste issue is interesting - why did it set him off? Did he think you were about to chide him for something and so he attacked first? difficult child 3 does this to me, so does easy child 2/difficult child 2. It also happens when approaches and discipline have, at least in the past, been blame-based. We talk here about natural consequences, but this can too easily slide into a culture of blame. It's what we do when kids are younger because it helps teach personal responsibility, but some kids get caught up in it too much and see every bad thing that happens (from their point of view) as someone's fault. Generally someone else's. It's raining today? Someone has to be to blame. I had to keep quoting to my kids, "Sometimes bad things happen to good people, for no real reason."

Another possibility re the toothpaste issue - you might have been trying to deal with too many things at once. You wanted to let him know yo had a new tube of toothpaste for him, plus you wanted to sort out the differences form the night before. He, on the other hand, was perhaps still raw over the previous night and had his own idea of what was "to blame" and anticipated, wrongly, that you were about to start more of the same.

What also has worked for me (it depends on the kid) is to say, "Whoa!" hands up in surrender. "I'm not going there. This is new. This is OK. I'm not angry or discussing anything that should upset you. Can I talk now?"

As I said before, a lot of this bad behaviour is anxiety-driven. If you can find the anxiety, you have a chance to de-fuse it. Sometimes you need to de-fuse it before you continue.

Another point - when you are hoping to have a resolution to a problem, you need more time. It should not happen while anyone is in transit from here to there, this task to that. Especially an Aspie. They do not transition well and if their mind is taken up with the process of making a necessary transition in safety, they will not cope with added mental complications.

I did say to you that your husband reminds me of mine. Loves his son, but boy, do they clash! Sometimes I want to bang both their heads together! I can see, if Im permitted to, where a problem has rapidly escalated. But too often by the time I get involved, too much has been said on both sides and the issue has been so muddied, we cannot find where to start to resolve it. We had something like that last night - difficult child 3 didn't like the tone of voice husband used towards him. husband said he didn't raise his voice. I believe him - I would have herd. But husband has a loud booming voice anyway, he doesn't need to raise it He has made HUGE progress and amazing effort, but it takes time for the improvements to percolate through and change difficult child 3's behaviour towards him. difficult child 3 loves his dad, but finds him frustrating at times. husband does things in his own meticulous way, and difficult child 3's egocentricity cannot understand that some people need to be allowed to do things their way, and that is OK. This will be an important lesson for difficult child to learn. Mine, and yours. Our husbands are, by their nature, more inflexible and unlikely to be as adaptable. But my husband has shown - change is still possible. He is not locked in stone. And I don't think he is a bad father at all. Just an honest one. But then - that's what you get, in Aspies. As a rule.

Something that did help difficult child 3 - knowing that his dad has Asperger's. He is often nagging us to get the diagnosis confirmed because "I need to know for sure", he says. I keep saying, "It's our working hypothesis."

A point about one's knowledge (or not) of Asperger's - I don't know how you feel about it, but to me that knowledge of Asperger's is like quicksand, constantly shifting and at times treacherous. For example, my statement to difficult child 3's Grade 3 teacher that difficult child 3 was incapable of lying. It was based on what I had read, as well as what I had observed. At home, where the fear and anxiety was low, difficult child 3 had no need to lie. But at school where he was far more anxious and where life was more unpredictable, he at times felt he needed to lie, to avoid teacher anger. We've gone into this at length in the thread on Asperger's and lying. But I had to change my own opinions that time; and over the years, raising a family of Aspies (what is the collective noun for Aspies? Ideas anyone?), I've learned that noting is certain, not even certainty. Whatever we may feel we know about Asperger's, chances are in five years' time, it will be amended greatly.

Lisa3girls, you need to not be so hard on yourself. You also need to take care of yourself. As I said to another person on this site just a couple of hours ago - your mental and physical health is the best gift you can give your children.

Marg
 
Hi Truthsong. It's really hard to be in the middle of our spouses and our kids -- the people we love best. I do think that in general, men have the harder time dealing with difficult child's. Many men are more analytical and logical by nature, and they resist the unconventional parenting we need to do for our kids. Many of us have been, and still are, in the mediator position. It's exhausting and draining. And heartbreaking.

I too practice letting go and living in the moment. But I'm still confused about when to let go, when husband and one of our difficult child's are going at it, and things are escalating, and it seems to me that I could handle things much better if I butted in. Let me know if you figure that one out OK?

A book that has helped me is Asperger's and Difficult Moments by Brenda Myles. It's written for teachers but parents can use it as well. She describes the phases of the rage cycle -- the rumbling stage, the meltdown itself, and the recovery phase. She gives real specific guidelines for how to identify each phase, and specifically what to do during each stage. Maybe that would help you and your hubby develop a plan that you can collaborate on. If you google "rage cycle" and "Brenda Myles," you'll find power points available without having to buy the book.

I have done a lot of thinking about letting go of what I'd like my family to look like. I haven't figured out what to let go of yet. I'm still really attached to the idea that my sons and their dad will get along in a way that I've dreamed of. I'm not sure that's going to happen.

But they will establish some kind of relationship eventually, whether good or bad, and that is up to them (easy to say).

I think I'm in the process of letting go of the mediator role, and that is frightening. But I really can't control their relationships. It doesn't work and I start to lose my sanity (not saying that you're trying to control -- just that it's where I am on my journey).

Jo
 
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susiestar

Roll With It
You have gotten a LOT of great advice. Esp to be somewhat patient with us - we are new to you and you to us. We are all glad to have found each other, but it is easy to sometimes misinterpret what we say because so much of human communication is non-verbal and all we have is the words on the screen to let us share with each other! This group is truly one of the least judgemental I have ever been exposed to.

My husband and son went through some of what I think you are describing. We don't have the step relative issues, but husband and difficult child do NOT understand each other. They like similar things very often, but the extremes to which difficult child takes things, and goes to regarding them, along with the violence and seeming lack of care about anyone else were really frightening to my husband. He didn't have a clue as to HOW to connect with difficult child though he tried very hard. He also had NO idea how to change from what his ideas of parenting were to what the kids actually needed.

The one thing that helped us the MOST regarding parenting is the Love and Logic series of books. L&L uses natural and logical consequences while working to strengthen the bond between parent and child. It made sense to husband and to many of the men we know who had troubles with their kids and parenting. You can learn more about L&L at their website - www.loveandlogic.com . They have stuff for teachers on the site that we also found helpful, along iwth quite a few books. I have yet to find L&L stuff that isn't helpful. They have a book for special needs kids parenting, but it came out after we already used the other books. I have heard a lot of people on other sites say that L&L "won't work" with kids with special needs, but that is NOT at ALL my experience. It worked far better than most of ther things, esp when combined with ideas from The Explosive Child.

Another VERY helpful book is "What Your Explosive Child Is Trying To Tell You" by Doug Riley. It is incredibly helpful because it helps you to figure out WHY the explosion happened, which is a big step toward being able to help your child learn not to explode.

I also think many adults have NO clue about how lost a child of any age who is on the autistic spectrum is. I probably would have gotten an Asperger's diagnosis if I had been a child in today's world. I can remember very clearly, like watching a movie where you know exactly how one character is feeling and what they are thinking, what it was like to try to figure out WHY others did and didn't do what they did. While I understand many of those things NOW, as I kid I was often very lost socially. My father is an undx'd Aspie who didn't always teach me the best ways to handle things (like the year I convinced many kids I was crazy so that the bullies would leave me alone - and I threatened to kill every member of one bully's family and leave her alone in the world unless she completely left me alone. NOW I am HORRIFIED by my behavior, but I had no tools that worked and was lost and terrified myself. Looking back I am even more upset because I can see how my threat had a big effect on the bully's life even years after we last had any contact.) I can remember, and somewhat articulate the way I felt and how I figured out the few social skills I had. It wasn't until I read descriptions of Aspies figuring out social rules that I realized how many Aspie traits I have.

If you can try to get past the outer "solipsist" view of difficult child and see the scared and confused person who has no clue about HOW to care, it might help.

Also, as his possessions and comforts are big to him, they CAN be withheld unless appropriate rules are followed. MUCH of what we Americans feel is "a right" of teens is actually a PRIVILEGE and is NOT something that we must provide. Things like driver's licenses and permits, clothing they like, computer time, video games, etc.... All of those can be carrots - esp if you are willing to strip him down to the absolute basics (bed, 7 outifts, 1 pr shoes, 1 coat, blanket, lamp, food but not food he likes, etc...no screens of any kind, no electronics, etc....). That can make a BIG impact but you MUST be sure that he understands why he doesn't have his "stuff" and what you expect of him if he wants them.

I hope some of this helps. Welcome!!
 
lisa3girls,

Welcome.

Don't judge yourself. (Easy to say I know but I believe it with all my heart). Go easy on yourself. Be as good to yourself as possible, as Marg said. Just do the best you can.

Sometimes the best I can do, doesn't look so hot. Actually I'm used to that. So what? Maybe next time will look different, and usually I find I need to rest and take care of myself, or have some fun, laugh. Drained people must fill themselves up somehow.

I think the hardest thing for me to learn has been how to take care of and nurture myself (still on that journey).

Jo
 
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Truthsong

Guest
Thank you all so much. I have gotten a lot of excellent advice! I especially appreciate reading about how open-minded this group is and the reminder to give everyone time to get to know one another. I also appreciate the encouragement and the reminder that things do get better. I feel very welcome and accepted here already.

Marguerite - you mentioned the toothpaste incident. One thing my son and I always do is talk about what happened after everyone has had a chance to calm down and think about things. (This was never done in my childhood home and later, when I moved out as an adult, I finally learned how to effectively communicate with others, so I have worked diligently to ensure my own kids learned these skills early.) difficult child admitted that the reason he pounced on me that morning was because he anticipated that I was going to want to start pouncing on him. I thought this was an excellent observation and told him so. I also told him I appreciated that he thought about it and came to tell me. This is huge progress for him. Anyway, you were right on. I need to remember not to get myself on the defensive when he goes there because it just creates a slippery slope. difficult child has a very powerful personality and it's sometimes difficult to remember that I am the parent and am in charge. Thanks for putting this into perspective.

You also mentioned a few times about how your husband and mine seem similar. Based on what you've told me, I have to concur. husband does often say he is trying, but that he's done all he can do. To me, that sometimes feels inflexible, but I know it's just something he says when he's overwhelmed and can't imagine how else to be. He has also shown how flexible and adaptable and forgiving he can be, so it's not a lost cause or anything. On the contrary, I am very grateful that he is willing to try so hard with a child that is not his. You're right about another thing, the booming voice and the things he says are definitely honest. I sometimes hear the things he says and worry that my son's sensibilities won't be able to handle them. But lately, more often than not, I am finding that those concerns are unfounded. difficult child seems to respond well to the strongly honest points husband makes, so I am learning to just stay out of things and let them work it out. It's hard to do that, but it gets easier every day. This realization, combined with what barneysmom said about letting them figure out what their relationship is going to be like has put things into a new and healthier perspective for me. Thank you for that!

I find your point of view of Aspie knowledge interesting. I sometimes get frustrated that difficult child has a "label" at all because it seems that people use it to limit their expectations of those with such "labels". My sister was born with multiple birth defects and developmental delays, yet we all treated her like a "normal" person (and, yes, I use that term, too). As a result, my sister was raised to be what has now been coined as "handicapable". Though I think that is far too easy child a term, I understand the sentiment. My sister, had she not been treated like everyone else, would have grown to accept her impediments rather than challenge herself to grow beyond them. As a full-functioning adult, she is now a lot more mainstream than she would have been had she been kept down by her "labels". So, I do the same for my son. I know that means his life is difficult. But it's rare to find someone with great character and integrity who hasn't gone through difficulties in life. I read a quote a friend posted on Facebook recently which has become my current favorite.

"Do not handicap your children by making their lives too easy." ~ Lazarus Long

That is definitely food for thought.

susiestar - We actually do use the technique you refer to about recognizing and removing privileges as well as ensuring that difficult child understands the reasons we took them away for a time. It works for the most part. But we've added the layer of making him work to earn them back and that has had some excellent results. Part of my problem is that I am too forgiving and so I often don't do well with nipping things in the bud. That causes difficult child to assume that what he's doing is okay and then a pattern forms. This is actually one of the things husband tries to avoid by being harder on difficult child from the get go. And I cringe when he does it because I want to give difficult child more chances. I know husband is right, but sometimes it's just really hard to back off and let it happen. I appreciate the chance to talk about this because it has brought some important realizations to the surface. It's a balancing act at times, when husband speaks from a place of anger as opposed to a place of authority and that is when I feel the need to step in. I guess I need to shift my reactions that 90 degrees someone mentioned and respond in a different way.

Much food for thought, indeed.

Thank you all so very much! I hope I am able to help others here as much as you have all helped me.:Grouphug:
 
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HaoZi

Guest
"Do not handicap your children by making their lives too easy." ~ Lazarus Long
It's from the Notebooks of Lazarus Long, as excerpted from Time Enough for Love by Robert A. Heinlein. There's a lot of great quotes from Heinlein that I adore. "Never try to outstubborn a cat." is another favorite.

pssst.... "Specialization is for insects."

I find he has amazing insight for someone that never had children of his own.
 
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Truthsong

Guest
Oh, cool! I didn't realize that was from Heinlein. I read Stranger in a Strange Land and loved it. husband has read most of his books, so I'll have to see if we actually one that one. If not, I'll have to get it.

Thanks for the insight and suggestions!
 
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HaoZi

Guest
I adore Heinlein, and it started from the same book when I read it in high school. :) I think every man should read "Time Enough for Love" and every woman should read "To Sail Beyond the Sunset".
 
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PatriotsGirl

Guest
Marg, I am sitting here with my jaw to the floor! You just described difficult child to a T. I wonder now if she has been Aspie all this time??? How do I find out???

Oh and I am part of the referee group, too!!! husband adopted difficult child when she was 3, but the two are so much alike it is scary!!!! They clash and I used to ALWAYS play referee. It was so bad I was wanting to leave. Now they get along a lot better and usually back off before something escalates but I give credit for that to her taking medications and being able to calm down, not husband learning any new coping mechanisms...lol.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
When it comes to describing Asperger's and high-functioning autism, I have a head start - I raised a house full!

On the subject of Asperger's and putting them in pigeonholes and reducing expectations - in our house, Asperger's/autism is seen as a gift. It brings capabilities and talents which need to be valued and used. Yes, there are disadvantages and hurdles to be overcome, but you can't have it all one way. In balance, my kids are happy to be Aspie/autistic. That is how we taught them. I got VERY cranky with scripture teacher (a school subject here) who prayed with difficult child 3 that his autism would be healed. She is a lovely friend, she did it out of love, but it sent him a very bad message on so many levels. Thankfully it did no lasting damage that I was notable to undo.

Marg
 
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