Thank you for your support and all your insight. Unfortunately i feel nothing will help and only time will tell. we met with his therapist and he says a residential facility is not what he needs that would only further the problem by other kids giving him new ideas and we could emotionally lose him.. his therapist seems to think spending more one on one time with his father will help.. how i have no clue i feel like i am being danced around the system. this child has acted out in some extremely dangerous ways and its scary. But we will follow doctors orders like usual and hope that is the right thing to do.. its all we can do and for now i am going to have him evaluated and do every scan and procedure possible to get a more indepth diagnosis
new to site looking for any advice
- Thread starter areinert
- Start date
You are trying to do what is "possible".
Sometimes... we have to go beyond that. Many here on this board have - including our family.
Desperate situations call for desperate measures.
I can see psychiatrist's point about Residential Treatment Center (RTC) - and if attachment is part of the problem, a general Residential Treatment Center (RTC) setting will add to the problem, even without the behavioral cross training problems.
But... minor tweaks are not going to do it.
Somehow, you must find a therapist/psychiatrist/clinical psychologist/other specialist who REALLY understands both attachment disorders, AND child sexual abuse. Someone who understands how serious this is, and has real tools and proven approaches...
Sometimes... we have to go beyond that. Many here on this board have - including our family.
Desperate situations call for desperate measures.
I can see psychiatrist's point about Residential Treatment Center (RTC) - and if attachment is part of the problem, a general Residential Treatment Center (RTC) setting will add to the problem, even without the behavioral cross training problems.
But... minor tweaks are not going to do it.
Somehow, you must find a therapist/psychiatrist/clinical psychologist/other specialist who REALLY understands both attachment disorders, AND child sexual abuse. Someone who understands how serious this is, and has real tools and proven approaches...
AnnieO
Shooting from the Hip
They told us the same thing about Onyxx, too. And you know what happened without one? Things got WORSE. I can't say they are better yet (she's been in not-quite 2 months), but outwardly they are looking good - and more importantly, we are safe.
That is how I feel and I am very concerned. Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) or no Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) this child needs placement somewhere before something happens. My guy has Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) also....or at least that diagnosis has been mentioned BUT there comes a time where the safety of the rest of the family is at risk then Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) takes second place. You cannot be on alert 24/7. God forbid he wakes in the middle of the night while you are asleep to use the toilet and decides to do something to the baby Occupational Therapist (OT) to you and your husband.
I wish I had gotten Daniel placed before he killed the dogs. The first one, well he tried CPR on him before telling me the lie of rolling over on him. The second one was just a pup that we all loved, including Daniel. If you mention her name around him he bursts into tears. No matter how much help he gets where he is this will be a memory that will haunt him the rest of his life.
Do you have the number of your local crisis hotline? You can call them and explain what is going on and they will give you excellent advice. They are very well trained to give out advice on such situations and you don't have to give your name....just ask them what you should do.
Although I am not a psychologist I have studied enough of it for nursing school and have continued studying on my own because of my late daug in law and her issues and the boys' issues. Others may disagree with me but I am very scared for you and that baby girl of yours.
First off, the doctor who told you to be afraid of children's services needs to be replaced. they clearly are well meaning but totally do NOT understand what they are dealing with, in my opinion. telling you that if you turn to cps then you will be charged is just ludicrous. CPS, or whatever your area calls child protection, MUST be called. It is BEST if you do it or if you go to your daughter's pediatrician (if you trust the pediatrician) and tell them that son has been attempting to abuse your baby. Then the pediatrician MUST report, but will say that parents are doing ALL they can and came for help. This will influence cps to be on YOUR side.
How do I know? been there done that. This was teh route we took for our son's first psychiatric hospital stay (4 mos). Most places won't keep a child that long, but he needed it. We needed it because he was not safe at home. He couldn't not hurt us.
I am very afraid for you and your family, esp daughter. Your son shows very serious, scary things. Whomever told you a judge wouldn't get involved is an idiot or has lost their marbles somewhere. Setting a fire and burning a house down is a felony. Killing animals on purpose is also a criminal act. trying to sexually abuse his little sister is a criminal act. there is NO WAY that this should not be in front of a judge. NOT NOT NOT to punish your stepson, but to keep your family and the rest of society safe while your son gets the help he needs. If you try to send the boy to his mother, your husband is going to end up in a TON of legal trouble because he KNOWs that the biomom's boyfriend or someone abused his son. Your husband CANNOT send your son into a situation where he knows abuse woudl happen. now the courts can order visitation and then your husband MUST send him, but with supervised visitation there just isn't a way to send the kid to his mom's to live. The courts and cps will eat y'all alive for trying that one, regardless of what the doctor/therapist/whatever says. I know it is messed up that the court can make husband do it, but husband can't do it because it is unsafe for difficult child. Never will I claim that courts make sense on this, it just is waht it is.
You need a WRITTEN safety plan. who does what, where, when, how when son is being unsafe. List the ways he has been unsafe and what to do for each situation. Put it up on the wall where it can be seen in several places. this will be a big help with CPS.
From this moment on, no matter what, the kids are NEVER unsupervised. If you and husband are not both home, you take the same sex child into the bathroom. They can be on the other side of the shower curtain, but they cannot be alone. This is because abuse can happen in seconds and cause damage for a lifetime. I do know how tough this is.. I know that longing to just be able to pee in private and not be able to because you know it puts your kids in danger. but it IS necessary.
I honestly don't know if your son can be helped. I know how awful that sounds. he has hit some of the MAJOR markers for serious antisocial behavior/sociopathy. This is probably from a combination of abuse and genetics, but we don't really know enough about that. Right now your job is to keep everyone safe and find help. It may be that your difficult child won't be able to safely live with the family. it does happen. Long ago one mom coined the term 'family of different addresses' after she and her husband had to put their son into a residential setting. They adopted twins not knowing how horribly they had been abused and how hurt they were and how hard it is to help them heal. even now, when her children are within a couple of years of being adults the difficult children are not able to be together safely. It is very hard. It is a thankless job, parenting kids who have been so hurt.
Whatever happens, you MUST make safety the priority. Put locks on EVERYTHING. If your cabinets have exposed hinges, replace them with ones taht are on the inside of the door and put a lock on the outside. NEVER let your keys be out of your sight. Attach them to your body at all times. It is a PITA. It is NOT the way a home should be. It is necessary to keep everyone SAFE.
the calling that DDD suggested - do it. I once filled 2 legal pads, every line, 2 columns per page, with records of calls from one place to another to find help for my son. I cried a LOT the week I made those calls. I didn't hide how upset I was when I spoke to people. I ended up with a couple of OPTIONS. help we didn't have before.
As for a residential setting amking him worse, he is going to get worse anyway. The thing you have to focus on is keeping your innocent baby safe from him. You can't keep her safe if he kills you in your sleep or a fit of rage. It could happen. He has already almost killed himself burning down a house. It doesn't get more real or more dangerous than this.
I HATE sounding so negative. I will offer some hope. You have an amazing support system here. We have info, we have walked in your shoes, we know you are not exaggerating and this is not "typical kid stuff". We are here anytime and we won't run away or stop talking to you just because it is too much. We also don't really sugarcoat things. we try to be polite, tactful and considerate, but we also tell it like it is from our point of view. We also know that not every suggestion is right for every family, so if you don't take our advice, we don't get offended or angry.
I can tell you that from age 7 or to age 15 or 16, I honestly thought the BEST we could hope for with my incredibly gifted Wiz was staying out of prison. Now? He is 20, has a 4.0 in college, and is a great big bro and son. He has had the same job for several years, one he found himself. he has worked 2 jobs at times, by choice, and he has a good group of friends. I can honestly say that NONE of us have a clue how or why things changed, not even Wiz. But he truly regrets and he most positively DID NOT regret anything back when it was all so awful.
Please, don't let your daughter EVER be alone as long as he lives with you. even at night put an alarm on her door and on your own so that if teh door opens you will be alerted. You cannot lock him into his room at night, but you can put an alarm on it to let you know if it opens.
How do I know? been there done that. This was teh route we took for our son's first psychiatric hospital stay (4 mos). Most places won't keep a child that long, but he needed it. We needed it because he was not safe at home. He couldn't not hurt us.
I am very afraid for you and your family, esp daughter. Your son shows very serious, scary things. Whomever told you a judge wouldn't get involved is an idiot or has lost their marbles somewhere. Setting a fire and burning a house down is a felony. Killing animals on purpose is also a criminal act. trying to sexually abuse his little sister is a criminal act. there is NO WAY that this should not be in front of a judge. NOT NOT NOT to punish your stepson, but to keep your family and the rest of society safe while your son gets the help he needs. If you try to send the boy to his mother, your husband is going to end up in a TON of legal trouble because he KNOWs that the biomom's boyfriend or someone abused his son. Your husband CANNOT send your son into a situation where he knows abuse woudl happen. now the courts can order visitation and then your husband MUST send him, but with supervised visitation there just isn't a way to send the kid to his mom's to live. The courts and cps will eat y'all alive for trying that one, regardless of what the doctor/therapist/whatever says. I know it is messed up that the court can make husband do it, but husband can't do it because it is unsafe for difficult child. Never will I claim that courts make sense on this, it just is waht it is.
You need a WRITTEN safety plan. who does what, where, when, how when son is being unsafe. List the ways he has been unsafe and what to do for each situation. Put it up on the wall where it can be seen in several places. this will be a big help with CPS.
From this moment on, no matter what, the kids are NEVER unsupervised. If you and husband are not both home, you take the same sex child into the bathroom. They can be on the other side of the shower curtain, but they cannot be alone. This is because abuse can happen in seconds and cause damage for a lifetime. I do know how tough this is.. I know that longing to just be able to pee in private and not be able to because you know it puts your kids in danger. but it IS necessary.
I honestly don't know if your son can be helped. I know how awful that sounds. he has hit some of the MAJOR markers for serious antisocial behavior/sociopathy. This is probably from a combination of abuse and genetics, but we don't really know enough about that. Right now your job is to keep everyone safe and find help. It may be that your difficult child won't be able to safely live with the family. it does happen. Long ago one mom coined the term 'family of different addresses' after she and her husband had to put their son into a residential setting. They adopted twins not knowing how horribly they had been abused and how hurt they were and how hard it is to help them heal. even now, when her children are within a couple of years of being adults the difficult children are not able to be together safely. It is very hard. It is a thankless job, parenting kids who have been so hurt.
Whatever happens, you MUST make safety the priority. Put locks on EVERYTHING. If your cabinets have exposed hinges, replace them with ones taht are on the inside of the door and put a lock on the outside. NEVER let your keys be out of your sight. Attach them to your body at all times. It is a PITA. It is NOT the way a home should be. It is necessary to keep everyone SAFE.
the calling that DDD suggested - do it. I once filled 2 legal pads, every line, 2 columns per page, with records of calls from one place to another to find help for my son. I cried a LOT the week I made those calls. I didn't hide how upset I was when I spoke to people. I ended up with a couple of OPTIONS. help we didn't have before.
As for a residential setting amking him worse, he is going to get worse anyway. The thing you have to focus on is keeping your innocent baby safe from him. You can't keep her safe if he kills you in your sleep or a fit of rage. It could happen. He has already almost killed himself burning down a house. It doesn't get more real or more dangerous than this.
I HATE sounding so negative. I will offer some hope. You have an amazing support system here. We have info, we have walked in your shoes, we know you are not exaggerating and this is not "typical kid stuff". We are here anytime and we won't run away or stop talking to you just because it is too much. We also don't really sugarcoat things. we try to be polite, tactful and considerate, but we also tell it like it is from our point of view. We also know that not every suggestion is right for every family, so if you don't take our advice, we don't get offended or angry.
I can tell you that from age 7 or to age 15 or 16, I honestly thought the BEST we could hope for with my incredibly gifted Wiz was staying out of prison. Now? He is 20, has a 4.0 in college, and is a great big bro and son. He has had the same job for several years, one he found himself. he has worked 2 jobs at times, by choice, and he has a good group of friends. I can honestly say that NONE of us have a clue how or why things changed, not even Wiz. But he truly regrets and he most positively DID NOT regret anything back when it was all so awful.
Please, don't let your daughter EVER be alone as long as he lives with you. even at night put an alarm on her door and on your own so that if teh door opens you will be alerted. You cannot lock him into his room at night, but you can put an alarm on it to let you know if it opens.
I just saw the part about more 1 on 1 time with his father helping. WHile I don't think that will hurt, it is advice given with-o ANY real concept of the problems you are experiencing. You NEED a therapist more experienced in profoundly damaged children htan this one who probably sees more typical things than this. in my opinion this therapist isn't of any real help to your family. We had qutie a few tdocs tell us that Wiz needed more one on one time - and more one on one time wasn't possible - we already spend a LOT of one on one time and Wiz wanted NOTHING to do with it - except when he was telling a therapist how we neglected and abused him. You know, like reading to him and making him eat vegetables.
This therapist is SO out of his depth and his advice is just not what I would expect or tolerate. A bad therapist can be worse than no therapist, in my opinion. Start interviewing new tdocs to find someone who works with severely disturbed kids. Start at a children's hospital if there is one in your area.
This therapist is SO out of his depth and his advice is just not what I would expect or tolerate. A bad therapist can be worse than no therapist, in my opinion. Start interviewing new tdocs to find someone who works with severely disturbed kids. Start at a children's hospital if there is one in your area.
buddy
New Member
Hi, I know it is hard to hear from professionals that this or that will not help. Here is the thing with attachment stuff.... There are very few professionals trained to work with it. I had a student who was newly adopted by a single dad and was in K. he could not join a group and hoarded and hit and kicked and I mentioned attachment disorder given his institutional upbringing and you kow what the psychiatric and social worker said??? OH NO , he loves his new dad. I saw when they came in he jumped on his dad's lap and hugged him. THey totally dismissed that dad said at home it is all on his terms, that he ruins things, that he is fake in front of others etc..... These people got ANGRY with me for giving them literature on this and trying to explain. Years later, this kid had no help and you can only imagine what all he was into. It is very sad that people THINK they know what to do just because they know about normal attachment and bonding. When it is really Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) even at teh lower end of the spectrum, it takes a very specialized therapist. many of those sites listed under Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) will have sections that lead you to referrals in your state. If you even found ONE other parent from those sites who has lived by you and knows of someone who is aware of attachment disorders you could get some referrals.
If that is not possible, as is said, this not only is about the safety of others, but he will have the additional burden of living with what he has done...or will do. My son when very little was told by my sister (after a sleep over and before medications...I would NEVER have allowed this but she didn't think) that he could play with my nieces hamster. He went and got it and when it moved in his hand he panicked and threw it. It hit the wall. SO, he got the other one... this one landed on the floor. Later they both died. He had no idea why they died and that they would but he kept saying they were scary and he threw them.... (he was very young, had limited language at the time). He to this day remembers that and feels terrible. I feel awful I didn't think to tell my sister dont do anything till medications are on board and of course I just never thought about the hamsters because we had a dog and it was not as vulnerable. Poor animals and poor Q.
You have a tough situation and it will take a long time to sort thru what to do but whatever you do, even if you are stuck and just have to manage, we do understand and only offer ideas in case it helps. Sometimes we are liimited in our choices and I have been in that place. Am still for some things. You are not alone and please at least vent and share frustrations here so you can get some relief for yourself.
If that is not possible, as is said, this not only is about the safety of others, but he will have the additional burden of living with what he has done...or will do. My son when very little was told by my sister (after a sleep over and before medications...I would NEVER have allowed this but she didn't think) that he could play with my nieces hamster. He went and got it and when it moved in his hand he panicked and threw it. It hit the wall. SO, he got the other one... this one landed on the floor. Later they both died. He had no idea why they died and that they would but he kept saying they were scary and he threw them.... (he was very young, had limited language at the time). He to this day remembers that and feels terrible. I feel awful I didn't think to tell my sister dont do anything till medications are on board and of course I just never thought about the hamsters because we had a dog and it was not as vulnerable. Poor animals and poor Q.
You have a tough situation and it will take a long time to sort thru what to do but whatever you do, even if you are stuck and just have to manage, we do understand and only offer ideas in case it helps. Sometimes we are liimited in our choices and I have been in that place. Am still for some things. You are not alone and please at least vent and share frustrations here so you can get some relief for yourself.
Susie star thank you so much this was helpful and made me feel alot better. Everyone did, i dont feel so alone with this most people i talk to just dont understand how hard it can be. I cant warm up my car on cold days unless i bring my SS with me, i cant shower unless my husband is home , i cannot walk my dog, and most days i have to wait for my husband to come home just to pee. You are right it takes just a second for anything to happen and it is exsaughsting making sure everyone is safe. i keep all knives and lighters locked up and i have a door alarm on my ss door so every time it opens i know about it. I even quit my job because the people who have taken him in the past do not understand what he is capable of or just fail to see it. so i am home to be available for him or docs when needed and to ensure the safety of my daughter
buddy
New Member
Every book on attachment disorder warns that this is true. A therapist not fully trained in their manipulation and deep needs, will do harm to your family because difficult child will see how he can make the family jump through useless hoops. They will triangulate parent and therapist and themselves.... it is well documented. ONLY accept someone who has worked a LOT with kids who have these kinds of serious behavioral issues.
Dont waste precious time on useless intervention. Not worth your sanity. I only have a portion of the vigilance you have, I have had to quit my job, can't do much without Q being within eye/ear shot.... but I can go to the rest room and shower now. (didn't used to be able to though). I get how unreal life can seem living like that. No one could possibly understand unless they have lived it.
New here, too (I'll post our story sometime soon), but we're starting to see a glimmer of hope now that our excellent psychiatrist connected us to a community mental health agency that specifically treats attachment disordered kids and others that are severely damaged (e.g., kids involved in sexual trafficking). They are providing wraparound services and money didn't come up until we mentioned it - they are working through the Medicaid issues for us.
Finding a more astute therapist (and a psychiatrist, too) is key. A possible place to start is your local chapter of NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness - www.nami.org). They are an advocacy group, with local chapters and support groups for family members of individuals with psychiatric/behavioral issues. Look on their web site and you may see a phone number for someone you can call in your town or nearby for advice on where to start.
PJ
Finding a more astute therapist (and a psychiatrist, too) is key. A possible place to start is your local chapter of NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness - www.nami.org). They are an advocacy group, with local chapters and support groups for family members of individuals with psychiatric/behavioral issues. Look on their web site and you may see a phone number for someone you can call in your town or nearby for advice on where to start.
PJ
