New to this site..insight appreciated!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by abriz, May 16, 2011.

  1. abriz

    abriz New Member

    My son is 5 years old, and has been diagnosed (approx 6 mo ago) with "Disruptive Behavioral Disorder" which to me sounds pretty broad. He has been 'removed' from two daycare settings. His behaviors really began the disruptive stage at around age 3 or shortly before. We have been through the Behaven model (if anyone's familiar) and he is now in danger of being removed from yet another day care. He starts Kindergarten this fall and I'm trying to prevent labeling in school among other things. He is big for his age (50" and 85 lbs). His behaviors have gotten somewhat better but we're back on the down slope again. The other day he spit at a teacher, he has history of pushing children for no known reason, using profanity, and screaming un-necessarily. He throws huge fits of anger. I've gone through emotion charts with him for what seems like forever. I am kind of rambling at this point but it's difficult to express how much there is to this child! He's sweet, he makes eye contact, and is very social. At school however, he tends to play with children who are a year or two younger than him, and at times just watches others play. Some of his behaviors have caused me to think that he displays some Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) characteristics, or even ADHD. I am at the point where I am not ruling out medication for him, which completely scares me! I'm hoping there is someone here who may be able to shed some light
  2. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Hi, and welcome.

    As we say around here, "glad you found us... sorry you had to"!

    Your post isn't that long - and most of us, at your stage, have no idea where to even start to explain... its a good place to practice that fine art, as you're going to need it for some time to come... (teachers, doctors, etc. etc. etc. - and of course, here!)

    This would more likely be ADHD than a pervasive disorder like Asperger's...
    ADHD is complex, but there's lots of us productive adults floating around who have (or "are") ADHD. With, or without medications. With, or without a raft of additional issues...

    Specialists don't usually diagnosis ADHD before school-age... our first was 6, our second was 5 - and they wouldn't have done a diagnosis so early except for family history.

    I found it useful to read up on whatever I suspected my kids had (still do) - some things fit, some don't. Maybe its the wrong diagnosis entirely, or maybe its just part of the picture. There's lots of good ones out there on ADHD, but they're in the other bookcase and I'd have to wake others to get it, so...

    Somehow, teachers and medical staff can wrap their heads around the hyperactivity component, or the inattentive component, or the impulsive component... but the part that often exists, and causes HUGE problems, is "executive function deficits". The whole concept of "put brain in gear before putting body in motion" just doesn't register. They are often "immature" for their age (playing with kids 1-2 years younger is almost "normal" for ADHD - and/or, they can also handle others who are 2+ years OLDER... for some reason, whatever they are, its anything but "average".

    medications are a lesser issue. First, you have to find out what the right list of diagnoses is - some of that will come later (can't test for learning disabilities yet).

    Hang in there!
  3. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    If he is going to be starting kindergarten next fall and he is currently having these struggles, I would request the school district he will be attending to do assessments for Special Education services. It will be better to have this done before he gets there than to wait until problems like this arise there also.

    Have you had him evaluated by a child psychiatrist? That would also be something I would look into soon. You will be better prepared to handle things if you know what you're dealing with. I would not trust a pediatrician or family doctor to do this.

    Others will be along soon. Pick up a copy of "The Explosive Child". Some of us here have found it very helpful. Good luck and keep us posted.
  4. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Can you say a little more about the family background? Is he your biological child or adopted? Is there anything in his history that may account for some of his aggression and frustration?
    I agree - this "disruptive behaviour disorder" sounds broad. Too broad. Just sounds like someone who doesn't know what it is labelling his behaviour and sticking "disorder" on the end!
    I'm becoming fairly widely read on ADHD since that is almost certainly (I have now accepted!) what my son has. I am not sure that ADHD children are inherently aggressive - they have poor impulse control, of course, which sometimes leads to the same thing... not inbiting the impulsive reaction. Is your son aggressive/violent at home? Does he have siblings and if so, how is he with them?
    My son is also sweet, has good eye contact, very social. He also has big temper tantrums and is kind of "para-aggressive" much of the time - his favourite play is mock fighting and his relationship with his (same age) best friend at school seems rather conflictual - they are like stormy lovers, constantly having tiffs and then making up. He seems, though, to have a sense of "which side his bread is buttered" and has some sense of what he can and can't get away with. He is sometimes aggressive (less now) with me, and certainly shouts and screams at home, but does not do these things at school where I think he knows or senses that he could not get away with it. It's partly also to do with the structure - he responds well to a very structured environment, which school is.
    So I am just wondering what similarities there may be with your son. Is one of the "problems" that the school environment is not structured enough to contain him? Presumably kindergarten in the States (presuming too that that is where you are) is more structured. What is his level of intelligence, do you think he may have any learning difficulties? I am also discovering that ADHD often goes along with learning difficulties. This may be a factor in disruptive behaviour. My son is in an atypical environment of a tiny school where the teacher (who doesn't for the moment think there is anything "wrong" with him, so he is not yet being specially helped) can spend lots of time alone with him. I don't know what your possibilities are but if there is ANY chance of your son being in a smaller school environment, do consider it seriously. The research shows that ADHD always do better in small classes - it's only logical.
    And the other suggestions of seeing psychiatrists, etc are of course sensible. If he is ADHD, perhaps with the famous ODD with it, you need to start getting it identified and helped. As for medications - I am not the one to ask! I don't want my son to go on medications if we can make a manageable life without that.
  5. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    What kind of specialist diagnosed your child? Disruptive Behavioral Disorder is another way of saying "This child has behavior problems and I don't know the reason why." Beyond alerting people like preschool teachers and insurance companies, in my opinion it's a fairly useless diagnosis because it does nothing to get to the underlying reasons for the problems, nor does it help much in pointing you in directions to get help.

    I'd highly recommend getting this book listed below, both so you can do some more research and to alert you to some things you can be observing.
    "What Your Explosive Child Is Trying to Tell You: Discovering the Pathway from Symptoms to Solutions" by Dr. Douglas Riley

    You also may find some help on the day to day issues with the book "The Explosive Child", and the thread at the top of this board about adapting it for young children.
  6. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Hi! Welcome to the crowd! It's a great group and you'll find a lot of experience and strong shoulders.

    I think you might want to have a neuropsychologist done in order to better pinpoint the diagnosis. Two of my kids have fantastic eye contact but still have been diagnosis'd with Aspergers syndrome - and present very much like your little guy. Sensory issues may also be something impacting him - has he ever had issues with how something tastes or "feels" in his mouth? certain sounds causing a reaction? smells grossing him out? what I call "itchy tag syndrome", sensitivity to tags, certain materials, those iron-on type of shirts, etc?

    While we can't diagnosis kids, we can help point you in a better direction - and a neuropsychologist would be pretty insightful for you.

    Again, welcome - we understand a lot of what you're going through!

  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    We would need more background information to take any guesses and, even if we do, it may be time to take him to a neuropsychologist for an evaluation. I think he actually could be on the spectrum, but I don't know much about him. How was his speech and early development? Does he know how to relate to his peers without hurting them? Can he hold a give-and-take conversation? Does he have an obsessive interests or quirks?

    It is incredibly hard for us to know what is going on. Do you live in the US? I've never heard of Disruptive Behavior Disorder. Different countries seem to diagnose differently. In the US, he would probably do well having a neuropsychologist evlauation and school/community interventions. His behavior is not is a good idea to get him throughly evaluated. The sooner you get a handle on things, the better the overall prognosis. Kids can change more easily at five than at ten. The longer you put it off, the more likely he will just get harder to manage and be more miserable.

    Does he have the ability to transition from one activity to another without a meltdown? Can he break away from what he is doing without throwing a fit? Can he handle busy places, loud noises, a variety of foods, all material clothing? Or is he sensitive to these things?

    Are you a two parent family? Are there any psychiatric problems or substance abuse on either side of his genetic family tree?

    Sorry to bombard you. The more we know, the more we can try to help :)

    PS--Aspie kids can make good eye contact with family members, often it is not so good with strangers. It is not a good way to rule in/rule out Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Social skills are the biggest clue...and quirks. Aspies often prefer to play with younger kids or hang with adults...they are unsure of themselves with their peers. Having good social skills does NOT mean being friendly. It means understanding other people and how to interact with them. Many Aspies try very hard to make friends, but put other kids off due to their overbearing behavior or inappropriate any rate, welcome :)
  8. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Thank you MWM! I knew that you'd put it better than I ever could! :likeit::bravo:
    Sometimes, I just can't describe it! Beautifully put!

  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Thsnks, NVTS. Unfortunately, I have been around t he block with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and have seen it ruled out (in my own son even) for stupid reasons. In my son's case, a psychiatarist we had seen for three years got mad when I brought up Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) again, as I still saw it in my son. He said, "If he had any kind of autism HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GO FROM ONE ROOM TO ANOTHER WITHOUT A MELTDOWN!" I was stunned at this medical doctor's ignorance and realized that he had less understanding of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) than me. Jeez, even my friends with bipolar kids had asked me, "Are you sure he's not on the autism spectrum?" I finally took him to a neuropsychologist. The drugs went away. His side effects and sleepiness disappered. A bright eyed, happy little boy emerged from a fog of drugs for both ADHD and bipolar. He didn't have either one, although he was VERY hyperactive.

    There is no one way that Asperger's/Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) presents. Language problems are a huge red flag for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)..from delays to odd speech patterns to using wrong pronouns to speaking with an unusual or flat affect. Social issues are ALWAYS a part of it, but it has nothing to do with being friendly. It has to do with understanding, like most kids do, how to socialize with same-age peers. Younger kids make allowances for badly socialized kids and adults often think Aspies are precocious (often they are) and cute. But their same age peers can not relate to them and are put off by their odd-ness.

    This doesn't mean this particular child has any form of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). But it doesn't mean he doesn't either.

    So I just pass along what I know. :)
  10. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Hi abriz,
    That diagnose does sound broad! Because of his age, some Dr's do not want to "label" them but with your son acting up in pre-school, they can give you/your sons Dr their reason for "kicking" him out and maybe that will help on the diagnoses. A friend of mine has a daughter who is also very big for her age, I believe this could also be a part of his problems. She would get teased, which after so much, would "set" her off.( She is Bipolar with other issuses). But, yes, she has started problems as well, even with the kids who did not tease her. Im thinking maybe he feels "different" because of his size ( of course this is not the only issue here) and maybe he feels more "confortable" with the younger kids, or he feels theres no compatition for anything. When my friends daughter gets violent at school/home with or without hitting someone,even an adult, they take everything away from her and everyday she has to earn them back( gets back 1 thing everyday for good behavior). I know this is not always easy, but for her, it works! Good luck.
  11. mechelle

    mechelle New Member

    i just found this sight also, wow, i felt like im the only mom, but it seems from just briefly looking most kids like this are boys, i have spent the last 10 years feeling like im living in a stephen king novel and my daughter is going to be the next ted bundy or timmothy mcvay. i have a meeting tuesday about putting her in residency, but i swear when i try to talk to people about whats going on the only people who believe are the ones who have had first had encounters with my daughter, the rest don't believe me at all. its so frustrating. i wish i had someone to talk to.
  12. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Hi Mechelle! Well, you got your wish! Now you have a bunch of someone's to talk'll find a lot of us with similar experiences - you've got a lot of members with a vast amount of knowledge - almost all via their own kids - so don't be shy - ask away - you'll get advice, strong shoulders and warm hearts responding!

    Why not set up a profile - it makes it easier for people to respond - and let us know how we can help?

    Welcome to the group!:consoling::Grouphug:

  13. mechelle

    mechelle New Member

    ok, ill do that right now, and thanks again, i tried another site for moms support, but couldn't find anyone in my situation there, they all seemed to have pretty normal lives, there biggest worries were only a wishful dream in my situation, thanks.
  14. mechelle

    mechelle New Member

    I love my daughter so much, she's 14 now, and I hope that putting her in residency will do something good, I've temporally lost my son who is 9 years old, until i can prove to the court my home is safe for him to come back. my daughter refuses to listen to anyone, we have had paid professionals, help from medicaid supported agencies and her diagnosis is so many different things, she has been to the crisis center 4 times, all mine and her fathers family are scared to death of her, and i and my husband take turns on guard duty and we have had to install motion detectors at night, her case manager told me to competently strip her room and make the house secure, which we did. i mean its good finally after so many years enouph professional people have seen behind the "mask" she hides behind..but sometimes i wish i had someone just to at the least compare "horror stories" with so i don't feel like im alone.
  15. mechelle

    mechelle New Member

    my son wasn't removed because of my mothering skills, please don't think that. i love my son more then anything and i wanted him to be where he is the safest and being around my daughter isn't the safest place for him right now.
  16. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Not to worry! No one on here would jump to the conclusion that your son was taken out of the home due to poor parenting! My 12 year old difficult child is in a residential and being moved AGAIN because of the issues at hand. It was 1 vs the other 3 as far as lessening the impact. It breaks your heart, but it's decisions like this that we're forced to make and that's why we're all here.

    Now, to preserve your privacy, let me your avatar a picture of you or your daughter? You need to use something generic - privacy is key for you. You want to go with pet names or numbers, etc. when you do your profile so that no one can "google" you and see anything that you've written. Sometimes, you may need to let loose and have a meltdown yourself on here and you don't want anything being thrown in your face if someone finds it and associates it with you.

    Many hugs to you kiddo, you've really been handling a lot on your own - so many of us have for so very long - we really do like to help our new friends! You can build your profile in the first forum located on the list of forum pages "Site Help and Resources".

  17. mechelle

    mechelle New Member

    Thank you nvts...i just got home with "sam" from her doctor appointment, shes up to 150mg of zolof now, lol, i probebly misspelled that, God im so mentally and emotionally tired...i know i should be used to needing a key for the locks in order to make dinner. can't wait till i can make dinner without a key. as far as getting frustrated, i have developed somehow of being calm pretty much all the time, it's amazing what a person can get used to after so long...i left her box of paperwork in the car, or i would write all "sam's" diagnosis or traits. its horrifying when from such a young age (3-4) a mom has to witness some of the most horrific things you could imagine and here it is over 10 years later and all you have is the memories. wasn't it supposed to be playing dress-up, slumber parties, school events? not life and death situations and me being on a crusade to save the world from my daughter. ive spent so many times just telling the facts of the reality of "sam" and her successfully manipulating people to her will, her putting all the blame on me, then after "sam" has had her way with people, there left with 'night terrors' there lives are traumatized and the only thing i can say is "I tried to warn you....." hopefully i'll have time tomorrow to write as much of "stephen king novel" life for the last 10 years. right now i can't shes home and i have to stay vigilant. the house is secure as it possible can, but ....... well "sam" has managed to figure out ways...i even recently had to put tape over the grout on the tile flower because she was getting to it...i mean COME ON! are you kidding..... ooh i can put the some of your questions at easy, "sam" is heavily into mutilation and she has threatened the lives of 4 people, possible 2 attempted murders. a pillow with her younger brother and a knife with the youngest of her step mom's kids. i literally am terrified of my own daughter, but threw watching her, she feeds off fear, and i refuse to show her how afraid i am. i'm hoping by letting as many authority figures know about who or what "sam" is hopefully they will be able to stop her..i can't help but feel responsible for the pain my daughter will cause on the world when she's an adult, which is only 3 years away, thats why i'm none stop in getting her help, or at least a long paper if something does happen...hope it wont be that bad...

    oh 1 more thing, tuesday they were doing dissecting in her science class, and after talking with her science teacher, i just kept her home..i dont want the lust for mutilation and blood letting that she already has to go into hurting animals.. thats the only thing thats left as far as "sam" fitting the (antisocial disorder) when she's 18...or better known as the psychopath... i guess its fullish of me to go as far as i can to stop her, but i feel it's my sole responsibility
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  18. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Ah Mechelle - you've really been up against it. When you do get the opportunity to write it all out, start a thread of your own...this way it won't get buried and you'll get more personal responses. Now, as a "heads up", don't be surprised if you don't see a lot of responses over the weekend. It gets quiet on the weekend and since the kids are home from school, many don't have an opportunity to hop on. It's not neglect or people avoiding your post, it's just chaotic!

    Lots more hugs headed your way...I'm hoping that soon you'll get a decent nights sleep!