New today....

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Robinboots, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    I just found this site while Googling for more information re my son, 15. I'm familiar with groups/boards but not this one yet!

    Here's the story:

    About 2 months ago my 15yo son told us his grades weren't going to be very good and he voluntarily quit his job (knowing we'd probably make him). After the grades came via email (since they mysteriously never appeared in the mailbox), we told him we were "starting over" and he was going to lose phone, laptop, and everything else from his room except bed, clothes, and books until we saw significant improvement and it was documented by teachers. A few weeks prior to this we had put him on a study schedule which obviously hadn't worked - the 12-wk grades showed him failing 5 out of 7 classes (that's Fs, not just "low" grades). He seemed fine with this.

    The next morning I told him to start packing stuff and taking it to the garage. He refused. He repeatedly said things like "no", "I won't do it", "you can't make me", etc. Finally I said I'd do it. He followed me and did his best to undo everything I packed. I told him to go outside and stay there until I was done; he said fine, he was leaving. I said do not leave the yard. He said he was going and did (barefoot). Changed his mind, and talked to his dad on the phone (whom I had called) - instead of my hearing "yes sir" and "no sir", I heard just what he had said to me - no, no way, not gonna, etc. Knew we were in trouble.

    He got his shoes, his phone, and left. Gone for three hours, did answer the phone but wouldn't say where he was. Came home, his room was done, and we asked for his phone. He refused. Dad took younger brother outside while I tried to talk to him and get the phone. Son went outside as well, yelling the whole time "don't touch me", "back off", etc. When he went around the corner and he and Dad started getting pretty heated, I called the police. They talked to him, a friend of ours (adult) came and got him a couple hours later, and he stayed overnight.

    The next day, he came home and was fine for about 30 minutes. Then he started badgering me about his stuff, etc., got more and more verbal and cursing, threatening behavior, etc. I called the police again. This time we had three officers; juvie was full, the youth shelter was full, we took him to the hospital. for an evaluation; hospital. said he was no danger or in danger and had some depression. Right.

    For the last two months it's been a struggle to sleep and be normal around here. He lies, sneaks, curses, trash talks us, tries to start fights with his Dad, has grabbed me a couple times, refuses to obey standard house/family rules, etc. I just can't really describe how bad this is. We have a quiet day or two, then he explodes.

    He has also complained at school about us, which has opened a DFS case; we are in intensive home therapy, also thru the state, and he's seeing a counselor. We've met (back in Nov) with teachers and guidance counselor and principal. We've gotten him accepted to a military school two hours away, but haven't told him yet (altho he knows this is a possiblity as we did a tour two weeks ago, and that evening he said he needed help and they could help and he wants to go - now, he's changed his mind). We've also had the police here two more times because of violence or threatening behavior.

    There's more, but isn't this enough?

  2. Has he been tested for drugs, alchohol? Such a rapid change might indicate substance abuse.
  3. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Welcome! I'm glad you found us.

    Originally Posted By: Robinboots
    The next day, he came home and was fine for about 30 minutes. Then he started badgering me about his stuff, etc., got more and more verbal and cursing, threatening behavior, etc. I called the police again. This time we had three officers; juvie was full, the youth shelter was full, we took him to the hospital. for an evaluation; hospital. said he was no danger or in danger and had some depression. Right.

    Do you not believe he's depressed? He has some red flags for depression or another mood disorder. When did his current behaviors start? Has he been evaluated by a child/adolescent psychiatrist? Are there any mental health issues or substance abuse in the family tree?

    Sorry for all the questions, but your answers will help us point you in the right direction.

    Again, welcome. Weekends tend to be slow, but you will find a lot of support here.
  4. SaraT

    SaraT New Member

    I have some questions so I have a better understanding of the situation.

    Has he ever been diagnosed with any disorders?

    Has he been like this(violent) before, or just in the past few months?
    Is the constant lying new?

    I ask because if the above answers are no, no, yes, then my next question would be if he might be taking illegal drugs. I ask because I had experience with brother acting the way your son is after my brother started taking drugs. The difference is that my brother took it all out on me, not the entire family, so I could be way off base here. Needless to say after a few beatings I told parents, and still do not talk to my brother.(20 yrs later)

    I hope you find some answers.
  5. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    Drug testing will be Monday a.m. Am emailing with doctor right now, as he stated he doesn't "feel comfortable" ordering drug tests without son's knowledge.....sheesh.
  6. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    No diagnoses.

    Constant issues with lying for many years; violent/threatening behavior last two months.
  7. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    Yes, I can believe the depression angle - but I don't believe it explains much/most of the problems. Anyone would be depressed if they were continuously cycling between normal and abnormal behavior and used so much energy to keep things going.....
  8. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    If he truly is "cycling," as you call it, that could be a mood disorder. And the energy used to "keep things going" is sometimes fueled by mania. I'd seriously recommend a thorough evaluation with a child/adolescent psychiatrist.
  9. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    That is planned as well, but not scheduled. "Cycling" may not be the word for it, as he'll go a couple days being "normal", then have an explosion usually after he's picked a fight with us, almost always after he's spent a day with friends. He is also "normal" with the counselor, in school as far as I and the administrators/teachers know, and if anyone happens to be at our house (such as Grandma). This all leads me to believe that he is indeed in control, at least to some extent; now, perhaps he loses control involuntarily, but he certainly begins the incidents in complete control as to who is present, or not.
  10. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    UPDATE - the drug test I mentioned? Now doctor is refusing to do it without son's consent - finding another doctor. Idiot.
  11. Hopeless

    Hopeless ....Hopeful Now

    Just wanted to say welcome to the board. The people here are very helpful and have a lot of great information to offer.

    I agree with the above answers, you need to get an evaluation done on your son. It could be a combination of things going on with him and the sooner you get some help, the better for the entire family.
  12. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    Most states don't permit treatment of 15 year olds with their informed consent. Ethical standards will stop most doctors from treating anyone without consent. If you are going to get involved in the drug/alcohol abuse system or the "mental health" system, you might as well start getting use to it.
  13. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    But this isn't treatment, it's a simple urine test, in conjunction with standard blood tests for cholesterol, etc.

    We have help, but thanks. I'm just here trying to get more information and try to figure out what's going on. Right now we have school admin and teachers, counselor, caseworker, and therapist.
  14. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    I had my son drug tested at 14 just as a precaution - ruling that out before determining if his depression had returned. They wouldn't do it without his consent.
  15. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    Testing is considered treatment.
  16. Green

    Green New Member

    I am so sorry for all you have had to go through.
    It must seem so surreal to have a MD refuse to order a test to help his patient. How long has it been since ds has seen the doctor?
    His behaviors really sound like Meth abuse. Do you know the parents of the friends he is hanging with before he comes home acting like this? Could you contact them just to get a feel if there is anything going on with their kids?
    Others have already responded with the psychiatric background that needs consideration so I won't repeat questions here.
    Blessings for your continued strength during all of this.
  17. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    I believe you can buy drug tests at a pharmacy, at least for pot. I have heard of them out here. I do not know if you can test for other drugs. I do not know how accurate these tests are.
  18. Robinboots

    Robinboots New Member

    METH USE? ODG..... And, he saw the doctor a week or so ago for a physical. We're strongly considering military school - he's been interviewed, toured, accepted. He wanted to go, now he doesn't....
  19. Green

    Green New Member

    The important thing is to try and set up a line of communication with the other parents, if possible.

    I was not trying to panic you. I could me totally wrong but your description made me think about a training on Meth I had to do for work. The labs are totally easy to set up - even in the trunk of a car -and when you said his behavior changed after a day spent with his friends it seemed like a case study from the training.

    Remember to breathe. Kids also rebel against excessive authority. It could be a combination of many things and until you get some of the questions answered, you are in a tough spot.
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Because I had a smiliar situation with my daughter--sudden horrible grades/behavior etc.--along with his age, I'd wonder if he's taking recreational drugs or drinking a lot. If so, no matter what is wrong with him won't get managed until THAT is under control. Have you ever done a surprise drug screen on him?
    I never dreamed my daughter would take drugs. After all, we never even drank and she hid her drug use well, however her behavior spiraled out of control. I believe she has a mild mood disorder (now that she is clean), and that may have started it, but she was totally unable to help herself at all until she quit using drugs.
    I'd think about it. Parents usually the last to know. I would simply tell him he tests for me or he's 100% grounded. I don't think military school is a good option if he is either mentally ill, using drugs or both. He'll probably just get thrown out and, trust me, he'll find drugs anyways.
    I thought my daughter was just smoking pot. She has told me that most kids will 'fess up to pot, but not tell their parents about the other stuff they do. She also said that most HEAVY pot users are also abusing other drugs and definitely drinking--they go together. Are his friends drug users, rebels, troublemakers?