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Newbie - Wondering if it is too late to help my son
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 405060" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Wow, you've really been through the wringer!</p><p></p><p>One point I feel I need to make - you are finding things more difficult for you than they should be, because you are so vocal and expressive. I don't live in the US but from what I do know, I suspect that a strong woman trying to deal with the legal system in a state where the social system is more heavily aligned with attitudes that women are going to be quiet, respectful, submissive - you get it, I'm sure - is going to find instant hostility, purely because strong women are not something a lot of conservative men can handle. They try to deal with YOU by getting aggressive and heavy. They play the man (or woman in this case), not the ball. </p><p></p><p>So - I know it grates, I agree you shouldn't have to and it is wrong, but for the sake of your son as well as your finances, I think you need to play-act the quiet, submissive person. At least in your demeanour. Still say the same things, but say them with eyes downcast, hands folded in lap, quiet voice.</p><p></p><p>I had to learn this one too. Not because we live in a conservative environment, but I worked with a sociopath male who under certain circumstances, saw me as a threat. He was nasty and sabotaged me so badly in the workplace that it caused my career a great deal of harm. Then I discovered how to slide under his radar - I learned by studying him, what I had to do so he did not see me as a threat. Of course, what he wanted most from me was for me to stop being so good at my job. I wasn't going to do that! But I did find that when I seemed quiet and submissive, he left me alone. And I quietly got back to doing my job well, and he was no longer paying enough attention to realise and try to stop me. Eventually the boss worked out what was happening. But it took years of me playing the quiet game.</p><p></p><p>When it comes to getting what you want for your child, again I have found I get better results if I am quiet and polite in my manner, even if my words are firm and authoritative. If they begin to get angry with me, I need to be able to say, "Please moderate your tone. I am not shouting at you. Please do not shout at me."</p><p>We use that phrase often with our difficult child too.</p><p></p><p>The problem with allowing your anger to show - the people you are dealing with will, given a fraction of a chance, take the easiest path open to them. And right now, the easiest path is to blame you. "No wonder the kid is such a problem - he has a loud, aggressive mother!" And of course that is not the problem. But once they can blame YOU, they don't have to pay attention to what you say. It is no comfort to be right, when you get ignored. Think of Cassandra in Greek mythology - she was cursed by Apollo, that although she always prophesied exactly what would happen, nobody would ever believe her. So her fate in life was to watch the tragedies unfold, including her own death, and know she could do nothing to prevent it. I often used to wonder - why didn't she make up the opposite and say that? But perhaps part of her curse was that she couldn't lie.</p><p></p><p>Seriously - it is galling, but I think if you had burst into tears in the police station or in CPS that first time, you would have been offered a lot more help.</p><p></p><p>And that is another thing - when you are a strong woman (or perceived to be one), you don't get helped. Even with friends, even if you're not shouting or anything. Picture two different women on a working bee. One (let's say this woman is you or me - I think we are both similar people!) is loading up the wheelbarrow then finding it is a bit heavier and unstable to wheel than expected. There are plenty of other people around, but none seem to see the difficulty and just leave this woman to it. MEanwhile we have another woman, the one who is perhaps concerned about breaking a fingernail, who is making a real hamfisted attempt to open a tin of paint. People come out of the woodwork to help her, while our other woman, who just needs a brief steadying hand on that barrow, struggles on alone.</p><p></p><p>It's what you get when you seem too capable.</p><p></p><p>What I'm suggesting to you undoubtedly seems personally dishonest. I can relate to that. But what would you be prepared to do, to get help for your son?</p><p></p><p>Now, looking at things from a different angle - by this stage, with that level of disrespect for authority and rebellion in your son, if all he has done is smoke pot (and tobacco smoking is a crime there? Wow!) and, of course, steal stuff that he decides he wants, then he is a better person, a stronger person, than many other kids in his position. That tells me that somewhere in there, is something that someone can work with. Your problem has been finding that someone, getting access to the right services. Because when you have asked, in desperation, your manner has given them an easy way out of helping you - "let's blame the mother instead".</p><p></p><p>I hated difficult child 3's first school. I had dealt with them with my older two kids and knew their shortcomings. But I also live in the same very small town as the school staff, and needed to stay friends with them. I found myself needing to be polite and friendly, even while I said things like, "Because we are friends, I am telling you this now and not immediately starting formal proceedings. But you need to know - you have just violated my son's human rights. This is the law you are breaking, when you take the following action..."</p><p>I went on to say, "I can forgive a great deal in the name of friendship, but my son's welfare has to come first. Please do not make me have to choose between you, and my son. You will lose."</p><p>All said quietly.</p><p></p><p>Interestingly, I have been told since that when my voice lowers in volume and becomes very sweet, they cringe because they know they're in BIG trouble.</p><p></p><p>I also learned that if I am in a room full of people shouting, while I CAN shout them down if needed, if I take the opposite tack and lower my volume, they have to shut up in order to hear what I'm saying.</p><p></p><p>It takes a huge over-ride on my emotions to do this, but it has brought me some amazing results. Yes, I have had people shout at me. I have had some very 'high up' people shouting at me. I never shouted back - it was sufficiently satisfying to me to have upset the other person, if I shouted back at them it would give them the satisfaction that they had me rattled too.</p><p></p><p>Often you are dealing with people who are politically very astute. The first lesson they learned was this one - don't raise your voice, unless you choose to. And don't choose to unless the theatrics require it. Only a bloke can raise his voice, politically. Think - Margaret Thatcher. At her most menacing, her voice was quiet and sweet. </p><p></p><p>To help your son, you are going to have to become politically astute. It's not right, it's not fair, but needs must.</p><p></p><p>As far as the basic practicalities of what should be happening legally - I can't help there. But others here can.</p><p></p><p>You sound like my kind of person, but living in UTAH!?? Having to deal with ANY male who expects me to be subservient - I've been there and never want to go there again. It was really, really hard work.</p><p></p><p>Welcome to the site. Stick around, read around, post around, help and support is here.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 405060, member: 1991"] Wow, you've really been through the wringer! One point I feel I need to make - you are finding things more difficult for you than they should be, because you are so vocal and expressive. I don't live in the US but from what I do know, I suspect that a strong woman trying to deal with the legal system in a state where the social system is more heavily aligned with attitudes that women are going to be quiet, respectful, submissive - you get it, I'm sure - is going to find instant hostility, purely because strong women are not something a lot of conservative men can handle. They try to deal with YOU by getting aggressive and heavy. They play the man (or woman in this case), not the ball. So - I know it grates, I agree you shouldn't have to and it is wrong, but for the sake of your son as well as your finances, I think you need to play-act the quiet, submissive person. At least in your demeanour. Still say the same things, but say them with eyes downcast, hands folded in lap, quiet voice. I had to learn this one too. Not because we live in a conservative environment, but I worked with a sociopath male who under certain circumstances, saw me as a threat. He was nasty and sabotaged me so badly in the workplace that it caused my career a great deal of harm. Then I discovered how to slide under his radar - I learned by studying him, what I had to do so he did not see me as a threat. Of course, what he wanted most from me was for me to stop being so good at my job. I wasn't going to do that! But I did find that when I seemed quiet and submissive, he left me alone. And I quietly got back to doing my job well, and he was no longer paying enough attention to realise and try to stop me. Eventually the boss worked out what was happening. But it took years of me playing the quiet game. When it comes to getting what you want for your child, again I have found I get better results if I am quiet and polite in my manner, even if my words are firm and authoritative. If they begin to get angry with me, I need to be able to say, "Please moderate your tone. I am not shouting at you. Please do not shout at me." We use that phrase often with our difficult child too. The problem with allowing your anger to show - the people you are dealing with will, given a fraction of a chance, take the easiest path open to them. And right now, the easiest path is to blame you. "No wonder the kid is such a problem - he has a loud, aggressive mother!" And of course that is not the problem. But once they can blame YOU, they don't have to pay attention to what you say. It is no comfort to be right, when you get ignored. Think of Cassandra in Greek mythology - she was cursed by Apollo, that although she always prophesied exactly what would happen, nobody would ever believe her. So her fate in life was to watch the tragedies unfold, including her own death, and know she could do nothing to prevent it. I often used to wonder - why didn't she make up the opposite and say that? But perhaps part of her curse was that she couldn't lie. Seriously - it is galling, but I think if you had burst into tears in the police station or in CPS that first time, you would have been offered a lot more help. And that is another thing - when you are a strong woman (or perceived to be one), you don't get helped. Even with friends, even if you're not shouting or anything. Picture two different women on a working bee. One (let's say this woman is you or me - I think we are both similar people!) is loading up the wheelbarrow then finding it is a bit heavier and unstable to wheel than expected. There are plenty of other people around, but none seem to see the difficulty and just leave this woman to it. MEanwhile we have another woman, the one who is perhaps concerned about breaking a fingernail, who is making a real hamfisted attempt to open a tin of paint. People come out of the woodwork to help her, while our other woman, who just needs a brief steadying hand on that barrow, struggles on alone. It's what you get when you seem too capable. What I'm suggesting to you undoubtedly seems personally dishonest. I can relate to that. But what would you be prepared to do, to get help for your son? Now, looking at things from a different angle - by this stage, with that level of disrespect for authority and rebellion in your son, if all he has done is smoke pot (and tobacco smoking is a crime there? Wow!) and, of course, steal stuff that he decides he wants, then he is a better person, a stronger person, than many other kids in his position. That tells me that somewhere in there, is something that someone can work with. Your problem has been finding that someone, getting access to the right services. Because when you have asked, in desperation, your manner has given them an easy way out of helping you - "let's blame the mother instead". I hated difficult child 3's first school. I had dealt with them with my older two kids and knew their shortcomings. But I also live in the same very small town as the school staff, and needed to stay friends with them. I found myself needing to be polite and friendly, even while I said things like, "Because we are friends, I am telling you this now and not immediately starting formal proceedings. But you need to know - you have just violated my son's human rights. This is the law you are breaking, when you take the following action..." I went on to say, "I can forgive a great deal in the name of friendship, but my son's welfare has to come first. Please do not make me have to choose between you, and my son. You will lose." All said quietly. Interestingly, I have been told since that when my voice lowers in volume and becomes very sweet, they cringe because they know they're in BIG trouble. I also learned that if I am in a room full of people shouting, while I CAN shout them down if needed, if I take the opposite tack and lower my volume, they have to shut up in order to hear what I'm saying. It takes a huge over-ride on my emotions to do this, but it has brought me some amazing results. Yes, I have had people shout at me. I have had some very 'high up' people shouting at me. I never shouted back - it was sufficiently satisfying to me to have upset the other person, if I shouted back at them it would give them the satisfaction that they had me rattled too. Often you are dealing with people who are politically very astute. The first lesson they learned was this one - don't raise your voice, unless you choose to. And don't choose to unless the theatrics require it. Only a bloke can raise his voice, politically. Think - Margaret Thatcher. At her most menacing, her voice was quiet and sweet. To help your son, you are going to have to become politically astute. It's not right, it's not fair, but needs must. As far as the basic practicalities of what should be happening legally - I can't help there. But others here can. You sound like my kind of person, but living in UTAH!?? Having to deal with ANY male who expects me to be subservient - I've been there and never want to go there again. It was really, really hard work. Welcome to the site. Stick around, read around, post around, help and support is here. Marg [/QUOTE]
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