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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 760404" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>Dear Whistler</p><p></p><p>Our situations are very similar, except my son is 32 and I am about a decade younger than you are. One of my worst fears are that this will continue down the road and that I will die in circumstances, that I am living through now.. The thing is this is a very realistic fear. I think that my best case would be the one that you are in, which is utter precariousness.</p><p></p><p>The psychiatrist my son had when he was 10 years old (and we kept in contact for many years after) died a couple of weeks ago. In his obituary his kids wrote that their Dad had 3 things he hoped to impart to his children: how to live with uncertainty; how to find good in adversity; and to love somebody else as much as they love themselves.</p><p></p><p>I will speak for myself here. I think MY ONLY recourse and hope is to learn to do what this wise man wanted for his children. To find meaning in adversity, to deal with the uncertainty of my life with my son, and to learn to love MYSELF as much as I love him.</p><p></p><p>I think I might surprise you here, and I may be one of the few mothers here who believes this way. I believe both of you are served by contact, but it is a very, very hard row to hoe. You can't let her abuse you. And you can't help her to abuse herself around you. This may very well make it so that she does not want contact with you. Because what she wants, if she is like my son, is to have contact on her terms.</p><p></p><p>I could have written this sentence above. I feel strongly that as a loving mother I can't let my son abuse me, or to help him live badly. This makes our relationship highly conflictual. Like you say, abusing us seems to help them cope and they want what they want. Not what we want. Therefore standing up for health and well-being and good behavior often puts us in direct conflict with them and what they want. And who wins? They do. They always hold the trump card. Why? Because it's their life. </p><p></p><p>I am coming to see that continuing any contact is a losing game, for me and for my son. He sees me as his oppressor. He sees me as willfully denying to help him. There are many who will say that this is my sickness, wanting to stay in a losing game. But I am his mother. While I have given up the fantasy I can help him, I won't reject him 100 hundred percent either.</p><p></p><p>One idea for you might be collateral psychotherapy, where you both see the same therapist together. Either like couples therapy or being together in part of each others' therapy sessions, to work on boundaries and communication and expectations. Like you do, I think it does our children no good to cope with their lives by inflicting pain on us, or degrading us. So, I agree with you on that.</p><p></p><p>I will say that I think you stepped in it, when you made the comment about the relationship. She appears to be quite sensitive to any infringement on her autonomy, and to act out harshly in response.. I would have done the SAME EXACT THING. Worry for me would have carried the day, but that doesn't mean it served either one of you, by commenting on something that is her business.</p><p></p><p>The hardest thing about all of this is that their lives are THEIR BUSINESS. But it makes us feel helpless, vulnerable and hopeless, because we feel that the CONSEQUENCES of their problems fall onto us. This problem is our own to solve and this is why Al Anon helps so many people.</p><p></p><p>I could have written the above sentence, too.</p><p></p><p>I think she is able to help herself. You weren't the one to recover from meth use. You weren't the one who got her the job and you aren't the one who keeps that job. She does it. The only person who can help her, is her.</p><p></p><p>You can be a mother. By that I mean, I think you have a very good understanding of your situation, of what she needs from you, and what you need from her. Like me, I just do not think you much like the situation. It's a terrible spot to be in, yours and mine.</p><p></p><p>We're in this situation my son and I. He is homeless now and delusional. There have been some hallucinations. I do relate to everything you describe.</p><p></p><p>I have resisted Al Anon myself. I have gone to a few meetings. I just hate it. I endorse and appreciate every part of the program, but for some reason I can't tolerate it--to my great disadvantage.</p><p></p><p>To bring this post to a close, I think I might consider contact under very strict guidelines. She has to be able to accept that there will be limits to what you will tolerate from her. Professional help for the two of you together, to carve out a healthy relationship. might make sense. I think it might help to actually tell her that you apologize for commenting on her relationship, and that it was not your business to do so. You could tell her that YOU want to learn how to better communicate and support her. Our children are not responsible to handle our fear. That is our responsibility to learn to handle.</p><p></p><p>Finally, this relationship may well just be a fantasy. She may be playing it out like a game. On some level she may recognize that she has a great deal to lose and very little to gain. But the thing is, our fears about our children are realistic. Your daughter may relapse and go downhill. My son is just as likely to remain homeless and ill as not. There are few miracles in life, but there is hope.</p><p></p><p>But nothing is gained by permitting them to hurt us.</p><p></p><p>I really don't know much but I do relate very much to what you're going through. And I am sorry.</p><p></p><p>PS Al Anon is open to anybody. Your daughter is a recovering addict. You are NOT a fraud.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 760404, member: 18958"] Dear Whistler Our situations are very similar, except my son is 32 and I am about a decade younger than you are. One of my worst fears are that this will continue down the road and that I will die in circumstances, that I am living through now.. The thing is this is a very realistic fear. I think that my best case would be the one that you are in, which is utter precariousness. The psychiatrist my son had when he was 10 years old (and we kept in contact for many years after) died a couple of weeks ago. In his obituary his kids wrote that their Dad had 3 things he hoped to impart to his children: how to live with uncertainty; how to find good in adversity; and to love somebody else as much as they love themselves. I will speak for myself here. I think MY ONLY recourse and hope is to learn to do what this wise man wanted for his children. To find meaning in adversity, to deal with the uncertainty of my life with my son, and to learn to love MYSELF as much as I love him. I think I might surprise you here, and I may be one of the few mothers here who believes this way. I believe both of you are served by contact, but it is a very, very hard row to hoe. You can't let her abuse you. And you can't help her to abuse herself around you. This may very well make it so that she does not want contact with you. Because what she wants, if she is like my son, is to have contact on her terms. I could have written this sentence above. I feel strongly that as a loving mother I can't let my son abuse me, or to help him live badly. This makes our relationship highly conflictual. Like you say, abusing us seems to help them cope and they want what they want. Not what we want. Therefore standing up for health and well-being and good behavior often puts us in direct conflict with them and what they want. And who wins? They do. They always hold the trump card. Why? Because it's their life. I am coming to see that continuing any contact is a losing game, for me and for my son. He sees me as his oppressor. He sees me as willfully denying to help him. There are many who will say that this is my sickness, wanting to stay in a losing game. But I am his mother. While I have given up the fantasy I can help him, I won't reject him 100 hundred percent either. One idea for you might be collateral psychotherapy, where you both see the same therapist together. Either like couples therapy or being together in part of each others' therapy sessions, to work on boundaries and communication and expectations. Like you do, I think it does our children no good to cope with their lives by inflicting pain on us, or degrading us. So, I agree with you on that. I will say that I think you stepped in it, when you made the comment about the relationship. She appears to be quite sensitive to any infringement on her autonomy, and to act out harshly in response.. I would have done the SAME EXACT THING. Worry for me would have carried the day, but that doesn't mean it served either one of you, by commenting on something that is her business. The hardest thing about all of this is that their lives are THEIR BUSINESS. But it makes us feel helpless, vulnerable and hopeless, because we feel that the CONSEQUENCES of their problems fall onto us. This problem is our own to solve and this is why Al Anon helps so many people. I could have written the above sentence, too. I think she is able to help herself. You weren't the one to recover from meth use. You weren't the one who got her the job and you aren't the one who keeps that job. She does it. The only person who can help her, is her. You can be a mother. By that I mean, I think you have a very good understanding of your situation, of what she needs from you, and what you need from her. Like me, I just do not think you much like the situation. It's a terrible spot to be in, yours and mine. We're in this situation my son and I. He is homeless now and delusional. There have been some hallucinations. I do relate to everything you describe. I have resisted Al Anon myself. I have gone to a few meetings. I just hate it. I endorse and appreciate every part of the program, but for some reason I can't tolerate it--to my great disadvantage. To bring this post to a close, I think I might consider contact under very strict guidelines. She has to be able to accept that there will be limits to what you will tolerate from her. Professional help for the two of you together, to carve out a healthy relationship. might make sense. I think it might help to actually tell her that you apologize for commenting on her relationship, and that it was not your business to do so. You could tell her that YOU want to learn how to better communicate and support her. Our children are not responsible to handle our fear. That is our responsibility to learn to handle. Finally, this relationship may well just be a fantasy. She may be playing it out like a game. On some level she may recognize that she has a great deal to lose and very little to gain. But the thing is, our fears about our children are realistic. Your daughter may relapse and go downhill. My son is just as likely to remain homeless and ill as not. There are few miracles in life, but there is hope. But nothing is gained by permitting them to hurt us. I really don't know much but I do relate very much to what you're going through. And I am sorry. PS Al Anon is open to anybody. Your daughter is a recovering addict. You are NOT a fraud. [/QUOTE]
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