No help from Daycare - been kicked out of 3 in 2 yrs!!!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by mikki1375, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. mikki1375

    mikki1375 New Member

    Hi, I am new here and so glad I found this board!!! For the last few months we have been made to feel like our daughter's behavior is something new and has never been seen before. We find this hard to believe and now I know we are not the only ones out there. Just some background...
    We adopted our daughter when she was 5 weeks old. She was a very easy baby. We've also been told by several people how bright and smart she is. She's always had a very large and great vocabulary, is affectionate, loves to play with kids, loves music and loves to sing and dance. We were very fortunate enough for the first 3 years to have a close family friend watch her while we both worked. My husband and I felt that the timing was probably right for a daycare so she could get more socialization with other kids her own age and get a little bit of a preschool environment as well.

    Daycare #1 - Attended for 4 months
    (large room with 40 kids - 10 kids per lead teacher-daughters teacher was about 20-22 yrs old)
    We were very excited about this daycare. Staff seemed great. We're told they would promote potty training - she was wearing pull-ups almost there) and lost of kids her age to play with. Things seemed to be going well. I'd usually spend 5-10 minutes each morning at drop off and pickup talking to the teachers asking how her day was. Mostly got the same response. "today was good. she did this or that" and of course there were days she either didn't take a nap and had a rougher time listening. One day they told my husband she hit a teacher, this was the first time she had ever done this - at least to our knowledge. Two weeks later I get a call at work from the director - not asking me to stop in to talk but she just told me on the phone that our daughter was out of control and has been since her first day and we were given two weeks to find another place to take her. As you can imagine I was taken off guard and upset. My huband met me at the daycare to talk to her before getting our daughter. We were told she have outbursts daily - mostly during nap time and other parents were starting to complain. Our daughter has never been much of a napper - which we told them so when they try to make her stay on a cot for 2 hrs she gets mad and it intensifies. The director then stated she had never seen a child with such anger/aggression and have we thought of seeing a behavorial specialist. I was speechless because up until this we had NEVER had anything like this go on with her at home or anywhere else. We immediately pulled her out of there that day and found somewhere else.

    Daycare #2 - Attended for just over a year.
    (smaller room max of 16 kids and lead teacher & usually an assistant)
    Our daughter seemed to do much better here. Within a week she was taking naps - not every day but a few times a week and were were also told she was more than ready to be wearing underwear - something the other daycare gave up on after only 1 week even though she was doing fine at home. After a few months they moved her into a new classroom (corresponded to the school year) and she continued to do rather well learning more and more with just a bad day here or there. Somewhere around spring she started acting out hitting on occassion - not usually other kids just the teachers - again a naptime or when there was something she didn't want to do. We got her some kids books talking about how hitting hurts our friends and how we should use our words when we were angry. Summer came and the hitting became more constant and even started at home - mostly with just me. Also they had some staff changes - the big one was a new director. On our own accord we decided to seek help from a behavioral therapist thinking maybe we were doing something wrong. We told the daycare and they were pleased to hear that. We even wanted the therapist to come there for observation to give them some ideas as well. It took the director 3 weeks to get back to our therapist to set something up. During that time our daughter's teacher was fired and not replaced leaving an assistant to deal with the class by herself. When our therapist did finally go in for observation she told us that it wasn't just our daughter but there was no control over any of the class. She gave the daycare some things to try and they seemed positive and willing to work with us. Two days later the director there called me and said they tried the recommendations but it was not working and they just didn't have the resources to deal with her. So after our daughter attending for more than 1 year there and them just taking 2 days to try something new they had enough. Again we were frustrated, upset and angry. Even the therapist was surprised.

    Daycare #3 - Attended for 2 weeks
    ( home daycare with only 2 other kids at the time. The lady had plenty of experience as a preschool teacher and one of her sons has ADD and was recommended by a friend of a friend)
    We told the lady upfront about everything and how we thought a smaller environment would be good for her so she could get a little more individual attention and she agreed. Things were okay for a day or two then our daughter started push any and all buttons she could find. The hitting started almost immediately. Each day the daycare provider would suggest, do you thing she maybe autistic, have they tested her for ADD or ADHD, you should really get her on some medication before she starts school. She's only 4 for pete's sake! The whole reason we are going to a behavioral therapist is so we can avoid medication. After just two weeks she called us and said she just couldn't handle her anymore. In a way I was glad because I didn't care for her. Not because of her suggestions but just didn't get any kind of warm and fuzzy feelings from her.

    So now we are on daycare #4 which she's in her second week. We've sent the therapist there twice. They are really trying to work hard with us but at this point I have not faith that they will try for very long either.

    We are so frustrated and disappointed that we are seeking help but it seems like there is none to be found. Our therapist really things that our daughter will benefit and has already shown signs of improvement with consistancy and structure. This is fine for home but what are we supposed to do about the time where we have to work if no one is willing to even try. It's just so exhausting some days and I don't want my daughter to grow up feeling like no one will give her a chance. She is very smart for her age (not just us thinking this we've been told by almost everyone) and very affectionate. Unfortunately I'm feeling like our next and only step is to do a complete evaluation and possibly some sort of medication. I'm just afraid of how that will effect her personality. I don't want a robot/vegatable for a daughter. Besides her anger impulses everything else is managable and typical of a 4 year old.

    Anyway just wanted to vent and maybe get some advice from those who've been there. Thank you for listening.
  2. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    I can relate. My son (at 13) has gone through 3 schools in less than a year because of his aggression. My son IS on the autism spectrum (keep in mind it is a spectrum and not just "Rainman type) and we know that his anxiety level is the cause of the aggression. It took us a long time to figure that out. Then when we did, we found it was IMPOSSIBLE to get these school districts on board with things that worked. Their rigidity was even worse that difficult child's.

    I am glad you are working with a behavior therapist but I would seriously consider having her evaluated by a child psychiatrist or, even better, a neuropsychologist so you can get an idea of what you are dealing with. I would also definitely get a thorough Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation done soon. Many kids have sensory issues that can cause some pretty severe behaviors at times. I would also suggest you request (in writing) that she be evaluated by the school system for Early Intervention Special Education services. This will get evaluations done and get things in place before she starts school that will carry over into the school. Your behavior therapist can be part of the team that will decide on how things should be done.

    Good luck and supportive {{{{(((HUGS)))}}}}.
  3. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome Mikki,
    So glad you found us but sorry you needed to. One suggestion I would make is to have a neuro-psychologist do an evaluation. The evaluation won't necessarily lead to having to medicate but should give you good picture of what is going on with your daughter.

    What does the behavioral therapist say? Do they feel she needs to be seen by a psychiatrist (children's psychiatrist) or a neuro-psychiatric?

    I understand the not wanting to medicate. Our difficult child was only 4 when we had to start medications. While he was never kicked out of any day cares (we were very fortunate because they could have) it became obvious to everyone some other interventions were needed.

    Again, welcome and know that you have found a soft place to land where others truly care. ((((hugs))))
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Hi, welcome. It really stinks when no one can "handle" your child not only because of the challenges with work but because it makes one feel like they are not doing something right. Well that is true, but it is not YOU! I dont know where you live but where I live (I am an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP)/worked in schools mostly but also owned a daycare for 10 years and NEVER once kicked a kid out, lots of special needs kids in my care way beyond what you are describing).....In our state, daycare #2 especially would have lost their license for not having a qualified teacher in the class. Daycare teachers here do not need 4 year teaching degrees but they do need lead teacher qualification so must have attended some kind of training program usually a 2 year. Many are fully licensed teachers who just can't find jobs or prefer daycare settings. I am sorry for you if your state does not require that. Your daughter is better off without them.

    I am sure many of us are going to ask lots of questions, please dont take offense, WE HAVE BEEN THERE, so it is only in attempt to help you sort thru things. you say she loves to play with kids....can you describe the play. Does she do creative/imaginative play? Or is it more copying of her favorite characters, using a baby doll only as a real baby...feeding/changing etc... or copying what you model? Or, does she only do side by side play like chase games at a park, playing with building toys that the kids share, activities like riding bikes, swimming etc...where you have silly fun side by side? Does she mostly following friends around etc?

    In general, if she is your only child, does she have to cope with not getting her way much? We naturally set up our lives in ways that please our kids and sometimes they just dont have to face the same challenges at home that are required in a school/daycare...NOT saying she is may be just that you are in tune to her needs, preferences and you know how to head off frustration before it even happens.

    I am going to take a guess and say that I will not be the only one to suggest.....While the behavior therapist may be a perfect tool for right now, while you are working with her, you may want to get a complete Neuropsychological Evaluation. This kind of evaluation can help sort through any underlying causes that may be treated. I know she is only 4 but one thing that is not opinion, it is fact, is that early appropriate intervention makes a huge difference in how the future plays out. Unfortunately, even if you try to avoid a label or diagnosis your child WILL be labeled by staff, and if is not the appropriate label that can receive support and help (and protection thru ADA for her civil rights)...then it will be an inappropriate label like ..."bad", incorrigible, disruptive, brat, rude, out of control kid, along with--must have a problem at home, etc.

    I had a principal tell me once that she had never in her career had a child like mine. OH, really??? i had worked in public schools for nearly 20 years at that point and I had worked with kids much more difficult. Just because people have lived their work lives in a little box doesn't mean your child is the one who does not fit the mold in society.

    Unfortunately, there are many special challenges that are very subtle and not easy for a doctor or general psychiatrist or psychologist to see. I would highly encourage you to have a complete neuropsychologist evaluation, an Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation and an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) (speech language Pathology) evaluation. I know you said her vocabulary is large at a young age, that can actually be a red flag for some things.... It is not that she can't communicate but maybe has some subtle communication challenges in social settings, or some langauge processing issues that could be affecting her. Of course vision, hearing etc. all need to be checked just in case.

    You are about to get a bunch of ideas hold on for the is all out of sincere LOVE and wanting the best for you because we know the feeling of being desperate to help our children.

    Another place to check is your school districts Early Childhood Special Education (ECSE) department. They can hear your story and do a free evaluation to help you. Still do the private one if you can...but they can offer placement and if she qualifies for Special Education she will get transportation and paid placement in a preschool program with support for her challenges.

    I have now quit working out of the home and am only paid thru my son's insurance to care for him. There is no such thing as daycare for a child like mine especially at his age. Just realize you may have to adjust your life dramatically as things go along....probably not but just be aware.

    While you are checking on assessments etc... Is it an option for you to hire a nanny and then arrange for other shorter times for socialization? Like library story time, play groups, gymboree, swimming/dance/skating/art classes???

    and fyi...I HATE forced nap times. Often it is a licensing requirement to have that time, but usually there are time limits that the center is supposed to follow, if not asleep by a certain time (like 20 minutes) they must be offered a place to go to read or watch a movie etc. while the other kids sleep. Kids are not supposed to be forced to stay on a cot for hours. that is crazy, I can see why you-and she- got angry
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think the best thing you can do for your daughter is to take her to Public School's Early Intervention Program. She can be tested and if she qualifies, she will be in a helpful environment that understands "differently wired" kids and also get a lot of help. For whatever reason (you have not had her evaluated yet),she is not able to maintain away from home and I agree that she will have a hard time in regular school next year if the issues are not addressed now. Behavioral therapists usually don't work with our kids...our kids don't respond to "normal" parenting methods. Perhaps your daughter can not control her fears away from home, but that is a good reason to evaluate her and to see if she has any childhood disorder. My guess is she does. I like neuropsychologist testing the best...along with the school testing so that you can get help.
    You can certainly wait on medication. My experience is that medications help certain kids and make certain kids even worse. I think the most important thing is an evaluation so that she can get interventions for whatever the problem is. Do you have any history on her birthparents? Was she exposed to drugs or alcohol before she was born? We adopted a boy whose birthmother was a drug addict and he has his own unique issues. Any psychiatric problems in the birthparent's family tree? It is important to try to find out. That can help a lot...genetics has a lot to do with how we behave and why we are what we are.
    I have adopted several kids.
    I work at a day care center and it is state law that the kids at least have to lay on a mat for a certain amount of time, depending on age. All of our kids will do it, more or less. Some sneak off their mats to talk to one another. Some may hum or ask, "Is it almost time to get up?" None of them rage about it...this is a red flag that something is different about your precious little girl. The "lay down" rule is not negotiable as far as I know and there are many rules she will have to follow that she won't like when she gets into kindergarten...
    I'll wait to see your answers and welcome to the board :)
  6. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Just a gut feel... but I'm reading into the post that she behaves better at home than at daycare.
    This may have any of several causes, all of which should be evaluated as quickly as possible... none of THESE would require medications, but may require therapy or other interventions...
    1) Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation for sensory issues - and there are therapies to help
    2) Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation for motor skills issues - and there are therapies to help
    3) hearing test
    4) ask about (its too early to quite test for, but... signs may be there) whether she may have problems with auditory figure ground - this is an Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) where the child can hear normally, and process language normally - but cannot filter out important sounds in the context of background noise. This can multiply if the child has sensory issues around noise as well...

    What are her sleep habits like? how fast does she go to sleep, how often and when does she wake, does she seem tired? This could also be a factor.

    Don't rule out medications forever. If your child need anti-biotics, or insulin, would you feel the same way? The key is, FIRST you have to know what you are dealing with. THEN you can start with the lowest-risk interventions and work up. But... if it takes medications to counteract an imbalance in brain chemicals... to me, that is no different than taking insulin because your body doesn't make enough.
  7. mikki1375

    mikki1375 New Member

    Thank you everyone for your suggestions/input/understanding. Now I have some extra ideas of where to seek help. We've been putting off the full evaluation at the recommendation of the behavioral therapist and her supervisor but I think we're going to have it done soon. My husband's insurance is changing so we're debating on doing it now but then will probably have to switch doctors come January. I'll keep you posted with any updates. Thanks again!
  8. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    If you have until January on existing ins... try and get at least the easy stuff done now... like Occupational Therapist (OT) and hearing... they are usually much faster to get into, and if there is something there then you can start therapy as well...

    Full evaluations take longer to get in to... can you book now to someone who will be covered under the new ins?
  9. Cheerwyn

    Cheerwyn New Member

    I agree with previous posters about looking into early childhood intervention programs in your school district (assuming you're in the US). My son's Pre-K teacher was godsend!
  10. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I had two who just couldn't handle traditional daycare. As a working Mom, and for six years a single working Mom, I remember well the stress of trying to find the right placement. With both (one in the 60's and one in the 90's) I finally located stay at home Moms who were able to provide the right environment for each of them....both instances there was only one other child in the home which made it calmer and more like staying with family. Your child may just be demonstrating that she is not ready for group excitement. I sincerely hope so. Good luck. DDD