NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD)..??

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Kjs, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    Boy..Looking and reading about this REALLY sounds like difficult child. When I asked psychiatrist about neuropsychologist testing he told me it was a waste of money. He said $6000.
    Also reading they can determine this with a brain scan??
    difficult child has had many MRI's and MRA's due to headaches. See's a pediatric neurologist from Childrens Hospital. I asked him about that and he blew me off too. He said all his MRI's and MRA's are normal.
    Is there medication for this? difficult child has just recently mentioned his sensory hearing issues. Been many years. But his social skills are so bad. He wants so much to be a friend. He is a good, loyal friend, just cannot relate and others just stop talking to him.
    He has a therapist appointment. tomorrow, and a psychiatrist appointment. on Friday. Should I be calling the neurologist with questions?

    sorry I have so many questions today.
  2. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    No brain scan unfortunately.

    No, there is no medication specifically for NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD). Like many of the other disorders, you would medicate specific symptoms like anxiety, depression, etc. that might be part of the disorder. What is different is that NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) can be caused by oxygen deprivation to the brain during birth or (I believe) brain trauma.

    NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) has many overlapping symptoms with Asperger's but has a somewhat different "flavor" to it. Kids wiht NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) often get by in their early years with the parent thinking there's something up with this kid but I can't put my finger on what it is. If it hasn't been identified by junior high the move to junior high is usually when things come crashing down and parents are forced to look for answers.

    I'd be ignoring any psychiatrist's remarks that a neuropsychologist evaluation is a waste of time. You need a full picture. To diagnosis NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) the individual has to have a wide span in the IQ scores between the verbal and performance IQ with verbal being the low one.
  3. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

  4. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    His only issue is cannot relate to other kids. Never wanted any group play, only one on one growing up. Has trouble keeping friends, lashes out a lot. If I were a kid he would scare me. heck I am his mother and he scares me.
    He spoke in sentences since 15 months. Above average IQ..gifted area. Yet no organazational skills what so ever. No desire to DO any classwork or homework. Meets every single symptom for ODD, which we were told 10 years ago. Very difficult time with hand writing, always complained of that. Now he complains that the hearing/loud noise issue still bothers him. He hasn't mentioned that in a long, long time. I thought it was gone.
  5. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    The sensory issues often ebb and flow. And they're more likely to flare up when other issues (such as anxiety) are heightened.

    To diagnosis NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD), you really have to look at the breakdown of the subtests--the overall score won't help you. It also needs to be a full IQ test and not a short screening version. The school psychiatric could do that to see if you're headed in the right direction.
  6. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    SD psychiatric is testing. Did this about 5 years ago but don't know where the paper is with the results. I do recall a discrepency but was told it was normal because of his age.
  7. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    OK, definitely no language delay then! But that's only rules out autism. The high IQ still can fit with all sorts of things. Poor organisation skills. Poor social skills. Sensory issues. The handwriting problems - could be a subset with hypermobile joints (I keep seeing this one, and there doesn't seem to be a specific disorder with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) plus hypermobility, but I'm sure in some cases there is a connection).
    The unwillingness to do schoolwork - if it's considered by him to be tedious and routine, you will get refusal ("I don't need to do this, I already know it" when they need to SHOW that they know it).

    He's got a BiPolar (BP) diagnosis which also explains a lot of this. The sensory things - keep an eye on it n case it is the forerunner to auditory hallucination, but at this stage it does sound like plain and simple sensory issues.

  8. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    so what do I do?
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I have a severe NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) (verbal IQ upwards of 120, performance level IQ of around 85) and my MRI brain scan came back normal. They can't spot these things on scans yet. A few quirky doctors claim they can--I'd personally not waste my money. Maybe one day they'll figure out how to do it. A NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) has many aspects of Aspergers so your child may do well with autism intervetnions, especially in social situations; you don't read social cues well with a NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD). You also sound brilliant (verbally astute), but often you can't deliver performance-wise, and this can be a problem when you apply for a job. I disagree wholeheartedly and completely with your Psychiatrist. A neuropsychologist is the best one to diagnose a NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) because they run hours of specific tests--they did for me AND my son. If not for the neuropsychologist testing, we wouldn't have really known what was going on with either of us. None of our Psychiatrists (and, since I also have bipolar I've had a lot) caught onto the significance of the IQ disparity in my functionality, and they screwed up with my son too, calling him bipolar, when he clearly is just "quirky" (which can cause a psychiatrist to label a person with a psychiatric disorder). A university medical center often has neuropsychologist's on staff that don't cost as much or are covered by insurance. We were lucky enough to get 100% coverage and we used the University of Wisconsin facilities. The neuropsychologist had worked at Mayo Clinic for ten years and was so intensive and conscientious about diagnosing that it blew my mind. Reading books on NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD)/Aspergers are good. Although those with just NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD)'s tend to act more social and be more animated, which was why I dodged the Aspergers diagnosis, we still have terrible problems reading social cues, "getting" social norms, and understanding "typical" interaction so it's good to get a younger child started in social skills classes and other interventions. Good luck. (As a child I met all the ODD criteria too, but ODD is rarely a stand alone--it is usually due to another, bigger disorder that causes a frustrated child to be oppositional.)
  10. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    verbal IQ upwards of 120, performance level IQ of around 85

    Which test came up with-this? I'm going through our paperwork and trying to see if we have anything besides a "regular" IQ test. I like the differentiation.

    Good luck, Kjs!
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    the neuropsychologist gave me specific IQ tests targeting different areas. I've had more than one IQ test like this and it always comes out the same. A disparity of twenty points, with the verbal IQ higher is a NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD). In my case there was a forty point disparity and my life has been one long list of getting hired easily (I sound very intelligent and capable when I speak) and getting fired (I can't even assemble factory parts without becoming confused). Get that IQ test that dissects the differences. Your "one" IQ doesn't mean that much. You need to see if your child has a huge discrepancy in certain areas. I wouldn't let the school do it either--they missed the significance of these disparities in my son, who is on the autism spectrum. If you really CAN'T afford a neuropsychologist then I guess you're stuck with the SD, but try to find somebody who can analyze the results for you outside of the SD. I've found SD's dismissive about these very real and important learning differences. I'm the kid who could write a three hundred page novel at age twelve (and won all sorts of writing awards), yet I couldn't remember to bring my homework home, didn't have the attention span to sit and do it anyways, and couldn't figure out how to put together a puzzle (still bad at puzzles). I also have visual-spatial problems. These soft neurological differences can really :censored2: up your life, and need attention. I also have terrible sensory issues. If the radio is on at work, I can't do my work--I get distracted. If somebody is talking, I can't concentrate--I need complete quiet. I still cover my ears when I hear loud noises and can smell things three rooms So I have Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) too. It's all loosely related to autistic spectrum disorder. Some think a NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) *is* the same as Aspergers. I don't think so. But, hey, no matter what I have, it has affected my adult life in every way, FAR MORE THAN MY BIPOLAR, WHICH IS UNDER CONTROL WITH medications. THere are no medications for these neurological problems. STims just made me hyper-out-of-my-skin and made my son mean and aggressive. Hope this helps a little bit.
  12. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    The older WISC-III IQ test has a full-scale score and then two index scores: Verbal and Performance. As MWM indicated, the breakdown of the two scores is more helpful in determining cognitive strengths and weaknesses than the full-scale score.

    The newer WISC-IV IQ test (used in the last 3 years) also has a full-scale score and then four index scores: Verbal Comprehension Index, Perceptual Reasoning Index, Working Memory Index and Processing Speed Index. Again, the index scores are more helpful in determining where strengths and weaknesses lie.