Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
NYT Article--Debate over Children and Psychiatric
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="dreamer" data-source="post: 18556" data-attributes="member: 1697"><p>I am venting with you-- I certainly cannot point an accusing finger at anyone.....</p><p>While my kids are not currently ON medications, nor is my husband or me-- I DID go the medications route, and so far none available helped any of us here. I did not mean to imply they do not help anyone. </p><p></p><p>Treating mental illness in anyone is relatively new in the context of the world of science or medicine. Actually, much of medicine, - in the big picture is also relatively new....How long has there been people on Earth? How long have there been doctors? Howlong have there been antispetic procedures, handwashing, sterility? Vaccines? Antibiotics? Really not all that long.....and until what? (I am not positive just when so do not hold me to this time frame exactly) mental illness was not really treated so much as just "handled" "warehoused" etc until when? The 50s? ANd was mostly only then with sedation, IIRC (again, I could be wrong with time frames....I may not be exact at all) </p><p>18 yrs ago when I first sought help for my "wild child" help was not easy to find. AT that time still much of the time many docs still assumed it was all parenting.....it just "could not be a bipolar child" </p><p>Technology has advanced at amazing speeds the last ? 50 years? CT scans, MRIs, fMRIs,EEGs spectscans, DNA testing and mapping etc. It is all relatively new so to speak. Clincal trials involve years of testing and` documenting.......Therapies- how can you consider something successful until you see the effect long term? If so many docs would not diagnosis kids with bipolar just 18 yrs ago, how could anyone possibly have the right answers, the true success stories and know the long term impact yet? </p><p></p><p>Even the antibiotics we thought would save the world are now showing to also fail or create different problems....even the vaccines we thought worked one way are now being found to wear off, or create drug resistant strains of illness or cause reactions in some people etc. - or other things. </p><p></p><p>This is complicated by the fact that many kids once diagnosis'ed with one thing, eventually run thru many other diagnosis'es as well.....how many kids here were originally diagnosis'ed ADD or ADHD and then depressed, then mood disorder, then bipolar, and then Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) or on the spectrum...and then sometimes thyroid or some other hormonal problem or brain disorder, seizure disorder, lesions, cysts, tumors, etc? or food intolerances or allergies? </p><p></p><p>How many people have we seen here whose teachers prefer kids to behave one way while we do not like the way the kid is behaving....or vice versa? Without thinking about it I can think of 2 persons who post here who the school LIKED the way their child behaved on a medication but the parent did not like how their kid was on a medication. </p><p></p><p>How many times have parents said their kid got better when a dose was increased but at the same time other kids here got worse when a dose was upped? ANd that can be from the same medication. </p><p></p><p>I cannot tell you how many times I sat in team meetings regarding my kids or husband when 2 psychiatrists, or psychiatrists and neurodocs or psychiatrists, peds, ndocs and tdocs argued back and forth from extreme opposite sides of an issue regarding the patient. They would be directly opposed to each others ideas on what to try next. Arguements over diagnosis, arguements over treatment, arguements over medications, doses, and whether what we were seeing was positive or negative </p><p>But it is my personal thought------how can anyone know what The ANswers ARe....really no one treatment has been found useful and good for every single one.....and really....sometimes I have to wonder---they- "the professionals" were pleased with MY response to some medications, BUT truth told, I felt like crap. So- seems to me, there is not even yet agreement on what IS a positive result? My docs were pleased but I felt crummy. Is that "positive"? </p><p></p><p>Yes it is very frustrating it is still unknown the one size fits all answers to what is the diagnosis, what is the best way to treat it......we are pioneers.....it is being researched, studied, etc. Thats more than was being done 20 or 30 years ago. BUT the answers will not come today or tomorrow. and it is not only a problem with mentally ill kids. There are a lot of illnesses disorders etc that prognosis was very grim 30 years ago but now is some better- but still treatment carries risks.....</p><p>cancers that used to kill people can now be treated.....but sometimes the treatment that extended the life beyond diagnosis of the original problem does still cause problems later----chemo and radiation for cancers cause cancers later in life. The treatment for my RA and Lupus carries risks of diabetes TB lymphoma among other life threatening problems. .....</p><p>Medical science is still learning, still growing. </p><p>Along the way there will be ...casualties......mistakes.......etc. SO for now....each of us must weigh the risks we know about.....weigh the pros and cons.....keep our eyes open...each of us has our own things we are going to be willing to risk to get what therapeutic result we hope for. and we are not always going to agree which risks we find acceptable. we also might not always agree with our docs. </p><p>(I think I lost my train of thought somewhat.......sorry) </p><p></p><p>Truth is we do not know the WHOLE entire story of this 2 yr old. We did not live with this 2 yr old. The story may not be depicted with complete total accuracy, some details may be left out....and just from reading posts here at this site......you can see a wide variety of how different people interpret the use of medications, the effects of medications and the symptoms being seen......etc. </p><p></p><p>And again, I am not anti medication. I am not pro medication. My finger is not pointing at anyone anywhere. We are medication free at the moment becuz of our own personal experiences and with the advice of the docs involved at the moment. I have no idea if or when that might change. And in the 18 years I have lost some of my confidence in medicine and science.....I have watched too many docs argue and guess. ANd some of those docs I have watched are high profile big name top researchers in the world of bipolar children. But I have also learned from my own research just how much this whole thing of mentally ill children is still in it's infancy. And in the world of medicine, things take time......the only way to know long term effects is to wait......a long term....</p><p>And a dilemma is....OK we did it THIS way so since we did do this this way, how the heck can we possibly know how THIS one would have turned out if we had done it THAT way? Well. We don't. so that complicates things further. </p><p></p><p>Yes, we still do need to be able to concretely tease out the different diagnosis es. and we do still need to better understand the long term effects of various treatments. And the only way to accomplish that is by all our kids getting the various treatments they are going thru right now. Observing and gathering data etc.......and interpreting the results as we go. </p><p></p><p>Almost 10 years ago, my child was put on Zoloft and she got far more suiicidal. She was 8 years old. I said to her docs, yikes she seems MORE suicidal. I got accused of not giving her the Zoloft.becuz gee, the zoloft was SUPPOSED to be an antidepressant and if she got worse I must not have given it to her. </p><p>Yeah. Right. But enough people also eventually made the same observation, and now there are black box warnings. Learning as we go.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dreamer, post: 18556, member: 1697"] I am venting with you-- I certainly cannot point an accusing finger at anyone..... While my kids are not currently ON medications, nor is my husband or me-- I DID go the medications route, and so far none available helped any of us here. I did not mean to imply they do not help anyone. Treating mental illness in anyone is relatively new in the context of the world of science or medicine. Actually, much of medicine, - in the big picture is also relatively new....How long has there been people on Earth? How long have there been doctors? Howlong have there been antispetic procedures, handwashing, sterility? Vaccines? Antibiotics? Really not all that long.....and until what? (I am not positive just when so do not hold me to this time frame exactly) mental illness was not really treated so much as just "handled" "warehoused" etc until when? The 50s? ANd was mostly only then with sedation, IIRC (again, I could be wrong with time frames....I may not be exact at all) 18 yrs ago when I first sought help for my "wild child" help was not easy to find. AT that time still much of the time many docs still assumed it was all parenting.....it just "could not be a bipolar child" Technology has advanced at amazing speeds the last ? 50 years? CT scans, MRIs, fMRIs,EEGs spectscans, DNA testing and mapping etc. It is all relatively new so to speak. Clincal trials involve years of testing and` documenting.......Therapies- how can you consider something successful until you see the effect long term? If so many docs would not diagnosis kids with bipolar just 18 yrs ago, how could anyone possibly have the right answers, the true success stories and know the long term impact yet? Even the antibiotics we thought would save the world are now showing to also fail or create different problems....even the vaccines we thought worked one way are now being found to wear off, or create drug resistant strains of illness or cause reactions in some people etc. - or other things. This is complicated by the fact that many kids once diagnosis'ed with one thing, eventually run thru many other diagnosis'es as well.....how many kids here were originally diagnosis'ed ADD or ADHD and then depressed, then mood disorder, then bipolar, and then Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) or on the spectrum...and then sometimes thyroid or some other hormonal problem or brain disorder, seizure disorder, lesions, cysts, tumors, etc? or food intolerances or allergies? How many people have we seen here whose teachers prefer kids to behave one way while we do not like the way the kid is behaving....or vice versa? Without thinking about it I can think of 2 persons who post here who the school LIKED the way their child behaved on a medication but the parent did not like how their kid was on a medication. How many times have parents said their kid got better when a dose was increased but at the same time other kids here got worse when a dose was upped? ANd that can be from the same medication. I cannot tell you how many times I sat in team meetings regarding my kids or husband when 2 psychiatrists, or psychiatrists and neurodocs or psychiatrists, peds, ndocs and tdocs argued back and forth from extreme opposite sides of an issue regarding the patient. They would be directly opposed to each others ideas on what to try next. Arguements over diagnosis, arguements over treatment, arguements over medications, doses, and whether what we were seeing was positive or negative But it is my personal thought------how can anyone know what The ANswers ARe....really no one treatment has been found useful and good for every single one.....and really....sometimes I have to wonder---they- "the professionals" were pleased with MY response to some medications, BUT truth told, I felt like crap. So- seems to me, there is not even yet agreement on what IS a positive result? My docs were pleased but I felt crummy. Is that "positive"? Yes it is very frustrating it is still unknown the one size fits all answers to what is the diagnosis, what is the best way to treat it......we are pioneers.....it is being researched, studied, etc. Thats more than was being done 20 or 30 years ago. BUT the answers will not come today or tomorrow. and it is not only a problem with mentally ill kids. There are a lot of illnesses disorders etc that prognosis was very grim 30 years ago but now is some better- but still treatment carries risks..... cancers that used to kill people can now be treated.....but sometimes the treatment that extended the life beyond diagnosis of the original problem does still cause problems later----chemo and radiation for cancers cause cancers later in life. The treatment for my RA and Lupus carries risks of diabetes TB lymphoma among other life threatening problems. ..... Medical science is still learning, still growing. Along the way there will be ...casualties......mistakes.......etc. SO for now....each of us must weigh the risks we know about.....weigh the pros and cons.....keep our eyes open...each of us has our own things we are going to be willing to risk to get what therapeutic result we hope for. and we are not always going to agree which risks we find acceptable. we also might not always agree with our docs. (I think I lost my train of thought somewhat.......sorry) Truth is we do not know the WHOLE entire story of this 2 yr old. We did not live with this 2 yr old. The story may not be depicted with complete total accuracy, some details may be left out....and just from reading posts here at this site......you can see a wide variety of how different people interpret the use of medications, the effects of medications and the symptoms being seen......etc. And again, I am not anti medication. I am not pro medication. My finger is not pointing at anyone anywhere. We are medication free at the moment becuz of our own personal experiences and with the advice of the docs involved at the moment. I have no idea if or when that might change. And in the 18 years I have lost some of my confidence in medicine and science.....I have watched too many docs argue and guess. ANd some of those docs I have watched are high profile big name top researchers in the world of bipolar children. But I have also learned from my own research just how much this whole thing of mentally ill children is still in it's infancy. And in the world of medicine, things take time......the only way to know long term effects is to wait......a long term.... And a dilemma is....OK we did it THIS way so since we did do this this way, how the heck can we possibly know how THIS one would have turned out if we had done it THAT way? Well. We don't. so that complicates things further. Yes, we still do need to be able to concretely tease out the different diagnosis es. and we do still need to better understand the long term effects of various treatments. And the only way to accomplish that is by all our kids getting the various treatments they are going thru right now. Observing and gathering data etc.......and interpreting the results as we go. Almost 10 years ago, my child was put on Zoloft and she got far more suiicidal. She was 8 years old. I said to her docs, yikes she seems MORE suicidal. I got accused of not giving her the Zoloft.becuz gee, the zoloft was SUPPOSED to be an antidepressant and if she got worse I must not have given it to her. Yeah. Right. But enough people also eventually made the same observation, and now there are black box warnings. Learning as we go. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
NYT Article--Debate over Children and Psychiatric
Top