Offered addiction study to D, 20...

[CareTooMuch]

One of our major universities is sponsoring a research study for teens and up to 21 who lives are run by marijuana and/or alcohol. I offered it to D who said that they were crazy to call those substances, only Xanax, heroin etc were substances He said that nobody's changing my mind about smoking, I'm not doing it to self medicate, I'm doing it because I want to. I offered a bribe, to help fix his car because it is not drivable right now and grandfather will be taking his loaned car back on Saturday. He ended up mumbling as he went into his room that he would think about it. If he chooses not to then he will get no help but a room from us. If he agrees and is accepted, then if we fix the car and he quits the study he will immediately have to leave our home. I sure wish something would scare him enough to take this seriously. Oh, and he does have court in a few weeks and hasn't bothered to do anything to help himself. Sigh...

 

[Smithmom]

I don't know the particular study but I've done more than a few. Are you sure that the purpose of this study is to get him to change? I have seen a couple of weight loss studies designed to get people to change habits. But can't say I've ever seen any others which have a purpose of changing behaviors.

 

[CareTooMuch]

Yes Smithmom, I read the info and talked to the lead for quite a while today. It's meant to help abuse and also to offer help towards possible depression and anxiety. They are hoping to break the cycle of abuse and hopefully gear them towards getting more personal drive to move forward in their lives Duke is well regarded and known for their ADHD, Autism and specialty psychiatry treatment. I know it's not rehab, but insurance doesn't cover anything pot related so this is at least worth it a try. He just came home from work and said he would talk to the lead and consider doing it. I'm sure it's not for the right reasons but it's a start.

 

[Smithmom]

Sorry... also seen re stop smoking cigs.

Did quick look and only see one. Its 3 mo. Requires CBT. To pass interview he has to convince them he is voluntarily doing it, going to follow through and not at risk of incarceration. What's the chances he can do that? Oddly it says nothing about being paid.

 

[Smithmom]

Yup same one.

 

[Copabanana]

insurance doesn't cover anything pot

Our insurance paid for pot and where we live there is legalized marijuana.

He said that nobody's changing my mind about smoking, I'm not doing it to self medicate, I'm doing it because I want to.

My son is 30 and we have been down this block now for a long time. Your son is clearly saying HE WANTS POT. My son has always insisted the same. NOT ONE THING I HAVE DONE OR SAID OR THREATENED has changed this. I hate pot. I hate what it has done to him. But the thing is this: The only control you have is to cut him lose, if you don't like his behavior around you. Like this:

If he agrees and is accepted, then if we fix the car and he quits the study he will immediately have to leave our home.

I would be clear with myself about this. That he does not want to stop. That 500 studies will not get him to stop. What will get him to stop some day is his own disgust with himself and his life, and his dissatisfaction with his life. What this means, is that he will have to suffer in order to himself have the motivation to re-evaluate what he is doing.

Oh, and he does have court in a few weeks and hasn't bothered to do anything to help himself. Sigh...

This is the kind of suffering he will have to experience. If he blows court off, there will be consequences to him.

Your story is reminding me of Lil's son. Who changed when he went to Colorado so he could get all of the legal pot he wanted. For him in the end it was not about Pot. He seems to have righted himself, with independence, a really nice girlfriend, and the motivation to please her.

What I am learning little by little is that what we want in our children is responsibility for their choices, and to learn. When I step in and make decisions, decide priorities, impose goals, I am working against the very thing I want, that my son chooses for himself, experiences life, and learns to live better. I still do the same thing: I want things for him that he does not want for himself. But way less so. With the help of many people here I am learning to limit what I want to the most important and essential thing for me, which is his health. But that means that he cannot be living near me because I find his lifestyle choices very difficult to bear. I do not know who will be the first one to give him, him or me.

The question I have is this: are you prepared emotionally that he leave your house? If he does not want to quit pot, he most likely won't. You have to ask yourself if you are shooting yourself in the foot?

 

[Copabanana]

"he was staying out for the night We told him if he did then he should plan to leave our home tomorrow" Caretoomuch. I lifted this from an earlier thread of yours. This was when he was picked up by the police and you were called. His response to you was pretty much...who cares what you say....I am wondering if the message that he is getting is that he can play you and do what ever he want....and you won't follow through with threats.

He is very clearly telling you this: I will live my life how I want and nothing you say or do will stop me. He might pay lip service to your demands, in order to get short-term needs met, but he has no commitment to what you want for him. He is not buying what you are selling. This is the writing on the wall.

If you decide to push the program you might put it to him this way: The marijuana is your choice. I get it. I hear you that you do not want to stop the marijuana. I accept this. But I will not accept marijuana in my home or your living here while you use marijuana. You can choose. You can leave now (decide how long you'll give him but don't give him too long) and make your own way. Or you can enroll in the program for help in quitting and getting on with your life. Your choice. Let me know tomorrow what you decide so we can make plans either way.

The thing is that adult children do get on with their lives. I see looking back that I encouraged dependency. By using my support as a means to influence and pressure him to live in the way that I thought was better. I could not bear that my son be homeless and I was afraid. I see now that I did not protect him and I did not protect myself. It only got worse.

There are worse things than pot and even homelessness. Dependency is worse, if you are an able-minded person. I am thinking seriously about whether or not what I did was encourage dependency in my son. If I did, I made a big mistake.

 

[Smithmom]

I agree with Copa. But I think you're setting him up for a loss. He has to do CBT and take it seriously. This study has been open 3 years because finding a sub abusing teen who is going to do CBT seriously, show up for urine and blood tests, do the volumes of paperwork, etc is very tough. And then do they get kicked out if the tests show up with xanax or something he shouldn't be doing?

I can say this because I looked at a lot of studies with mine. Mostly mine never agreed. Money was a motivation but only if sober. In a couple of cases we did the preliminary stuff and they violated some protocol before they even got to the first or second meeting.

These things are not designed to help people. There are no do overs or free passes.

 

[Copabanana]

These things are not designed to help people. There are no do overs or free passes.

No truer words were ever written. When I was in academia I participated in those kinds of studies. They are scientific studies. Their purpose is academic research. While it would be too harsh to say that they don't care, it is not untrue. They are trying to learn the conditions under which people succeed (or not). That people succeed is not their goal. You need to understand that, and so does he. He is a research subject. He is not a patient. While they cannot cause him intentional harm, there is not necessarily any commitment to care or to recovery on their part. I was a subject of a study when I was his age. It was extremely traumatic for me. I have great regret I participated. But that was many, many years ago and ethics and the impact upon the well-being of subjects of these studies was not as well-considered.

 

[CareTooMuch]

The question I have is this: are you prepared emotionally that he leave your house? If he does not want to quit pot, he most likely won't. You have to ask yourself if you are shooting yourself in the foot?

I absolutely have to think that through. Maybe we'll just hold off on fixing his car for a while to see what happens. As upset as I can get, he's still young and I love him dearly.

Did quick look and only see one. Its 3 mo. Requires CBT. To pass interview he has to convince them he is voluntarily doing it, going to follow through and not at risk of incarceration. What's the chances he can do that? Oddly it says nothing about being paid.

Yes, I'm fairly sure sure he would get accepted, not in danger of being incarcerated, at least right now, and fits all the criteria. Lead asked me many questions and he seems to totally fit their profile. We'll see if he seems committed enough to try after he finds out more.

We have good insurance and we're told that it won't cover pot for most rehab type programs. It may be different for everyone. Pot is not regarded as a hard drug anymore, but we all know that's not necessarily true. Although I know it may not help in the least, we have to at least try.

 

[Smithmom]

Copa, things haven't changed all that much. There's legislation forcing ethics by committee. But I observed a study not long ago that I thought I must be misreading. I wasnt. A year or two later big scandal. It still happens.

 

[Copabanana]

won't cover pot for most rehab type programs. It may be different for everyone.

It should be covered in a dual diagnosis program. Does he have anxiety or depression? He does have ADHD, I think.

 

[Copabanana]

he's still young and I love him dearly.

We all love our kids. Maybe these are growth pains and mild rebellion. He is young. The question is what is in his best interests, and what is in yours?

The distress we feel is not the point. (Well. That sure is the pot calling the kettle black.) The point is their growing up. They grow up by trial and error. That is how I grew up. Some of the things I did were deadly and cause me horror. I thank g-d when I remember these things, that I was not killed or cause danger to others (I hope). But grow I did.

My own parents either were indifferent or they subjected me to harm. Your son and my own, have parents that care deeply. But the thing is our caring does not help these kind of kids. Really. They misread it.

 

[Smithmom]

Sorry I'm coming in late on the insurance discussion. I understand they won't cover sub abuse treatment for pot only. But if you pay a sliding scale clinic would that count toward your out of pocket total? Have you asked a treatment provider how they work around the coding to get insurance to pay?

 

[CareTooMuch]

Yes the good outpatient treatment would be a three thousand dollor commitment which I would gladly pay if HE committed And I did look it up more and you'll are right this is not the type of thing I thought it was. So thank you so much for your knowledge. We have followed through and made him leave for periods of tine so he knows we will do it but do we want to ? Are we ready?? Probably not yet to be honest. I think for right now we'll just say no pot in our home and if he gets stopped with it out then he will have natural cobquences not brought on by us.

 

[CareTooMuch]

Sorry I'm coming in late on the insurance discussion. I understand they won't cover sub abuse treatment for pot only. But if you pay a sliding scale clinic would that count toward your out of pocket total? Have you asked a treatment provider how they work around the coding to get insurance to pay?

Our insurance does cover therapy just not rehab for pot. He sees a wonderful therapist whom we all love and he helped other things tremendousky just not Th he lack of motivation and substance abuse.

 

[Smithmom]

My middle one is addicted to pot only. He doesn't live the life I want for him. But I am accepting that his life is his choice. He has a goal in life, not realistic by my definition, I don't see him becoming a hip hop mogul. But its a goal. I kicked him out at 19.5, 3 mo before HS graduation when I caught him smoking it in my living room. With my autistic kid 5 ft away and me sleeping in my room cause it was 8 a.m. on a Sat morning. I am a severe asthmatic and any smoke is a problem. To this day, and I was ignored at his HS grad, cause his story is that I'm crazy, had a fit for no reason and threw him out to be homeless when he was still in HS. Sure. That's it.

I can't change him. I can't make him see. My mantra has always been as long as you have a day job. I have to detach. Yours is younger.

 

[Copabanana]

do we want to ? Are we ready?? Probably not yet to be honest.

This is very good to know.

I think for right now we'll just say no pot in our home and if he gets stopped with it out then he will have natural cobquences not brought on by us.

That sounds good.

He sees a wonderful therapist

This sounds good, too.

Does he have a job?

 

[CareTooMuch]

Yes, he has a job and is a fairly good employee. But he blows he money as fast as he makes it.

 

[Copabanana]

Yes, he has a job and is a fairly good employee. But he blows he money as fast as he makes it.

Caretoomuch. There are so many blessings. A job. No hard drugs (I hope). No serious mental illness. He does not overtly disrespect you and seems to want to be close to family. In our corner of the world these are real pluses.

You know about glass half full or half empty.

Maybe your son is slow to grow up, and wants to do so on his own terms. This is not so bad.