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Oh my, what a night! Long, sorry so much stress
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 36223" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Coupla things - </p><p></p><p>1) The homework. It sounds to me like you guys weren't the wones pushing her to do her homework, she was motivated, bus stressing about it. Am I right? I get this from easy child 2/difficult child 2 and difficult child 3 - they want to get the work done but get so worked up and frustrated they make life miserable for anyone within earshot. I'm not so much pushing them to do their work, as hosing them down so they don't explode. And keeping the attitude of "I'm not going to help you if you take it out on me" does work for me, better than anything else. The help I give - I will tutor for a maths problem, I will encourage, "buck them up" and generally be around. Rub their back, bring a snack, that sort of thing. But only if they're being nice to me. I recognise that the meltdowns are anxiety-based, but I still won't stick around for them. They have to calm down and come and fetch me, if they want me. Instead, I go to my room and read a book. I shut the door to my room if their noise is bothering me. if they get physically aggressive with the computer, I throw them out (regardless of where the work is at) because I can't risk damage to expensive equipment.</p><p></p><p>2) Didn't you ever read Dr Spock? Kids do the breath-holding thing around 12 months and up. They do it to get a reaction - it's pure emotional blackmail. It IS far preferable to cutting or other forms of violence, but she's doing it because it is working - you reacted. You threatened. And there really is no need.</p><p>Because another point Dr Spock made, is that the best thing you can do when a kid holds their breath is to walk away. Ignore. If, by some amazing feat of personal strength they succeed in overcoming the urge to breathe and fall unconscious due to lack of oxygen, they will no longer be holding their breath. The body will take over and they will breathe again.</p><p></p><p>Don't fall for her blackmail. Do not react. Walk away. But also recognise - she is panicky and afraid. Seeing her mother is making her all the more unsettled and she is trying to re-establish the ground rules for interaction, each time she comes back.</p><p></p><p>I'm going to give you a crash course in how the human body works, with oxygen and carbon dioxide levels. You should be mightily reassured, as well as better equipped to respond in as laid back a way as possible to the threats. You don't need to touch her. Some people used to throw a glass of cold water on a breath-holder, but that is considered assault these days (the cold water would cause them to almost instinctively take in a deep breath, a gasp).</p><p></p><p>Our bodies respond automatically to blood levels of carbon dioxide. They do NOT respond to oxygen levels, which is how breath-holders can even try this trick. But there is always a balance between oxygen levels and carbon dioxide levels. So the body only worries about one of them. Carbon dioxide. We breathe in air which contains about 20% oxygen and a fraction of a percent of carbon dioxide. What we breathe out contains about 5% carbon dioxide and about 10% oxygen.</p><p>Our cells are constantly working and living. This means that even if we're asleep, each cell is using up oxygen and producing carbon dioxide. Both these gases travel in the bloodstream, attached to the red blood cells. There is a tiny group of cells on both sides of your neck which actually measure the carbon dioxide levels in the blood. They then send signals to the brain stem to either speed up or slow down breathing, according to whether carbon dioxide levels are low or high. (Example: when we exercise, our bodies burn oxygen faster, much faster, and carbon dioxide builds up really fast, so our lungs end up taking bigger and faster breaths to blow off all this extra carbon dioxide).</p><p>If you like to swim underwater, you might have tried hyperventilating or overbreathing before taking that one big breath and diving in. It is very dangerous. A person who takes a lot of breaths, deep and fast, is forcing a faster breathing rate onto a body which doesn't need it. The carbon dioxide levels drop to very low. This on its own isn't dangerous, but it does reduce the urge to breathe, because there is no signal coming in from those cells on the neck. (A surgeon may get his patient onto pure oxygen, just before making an incision. This causes a short period, a couple of minutes maybe, in which the patient doesn't breathe, because the body has no need to).</p><p>Then the person takes one big, deep breath. In goes a lungful of 80% nitrogen (inert to our bodies), 20% oxygen and a fraction of a percent carbon dioxide, which does nothing to bring up carbon dioxide levels in the blood.</p><p></p><p>Then the person dives underwater. Now, if you do this without going underwater, you can find you can hold your breath for a lot longer before you feel the urge to breathe. You may even feel you can hold off this urge indefinitely, but eventually the urge will force you - it is irresistible. What is driving this urge is the level of carbon dioxide, slowly rising purely because the body is slowly converting the oxygen via cell metabolism.</p><p>What CAN happen - as the body is using up oxygen, the level of oxygen in the bloodstream is falling. Where does the blood get its oxygen? From that lungful which is now getting a bit stale. The oxygen level can sometimes fall too low for consciousness and the person passes out. They still may have no urge to breathe because their carbon dioxide levels are still too low for the urge to re-breathe to kick in. But at some stage their carbon dioxide levels rise high enough to trigger the breathing reflex. If the person is unconscious, they cannot over-ride this. if the person is unconscious and underwater, they drown.</p><p></p><p>So next time she holds her breath, even if she's plugging fingers in here or there, ignore her. If/when she falls unconscious her muscles will relax and she will breathe normally again. There is no chance of brain damage from trying to not breathe - you fall unconscious long before the oxygen levels get low enough to cause harm. She will be fine, until she thinks up some new way to torture you.</p><p></p><p>As for "The Explosive Child" - it IS harder when they have BiPolar (BP). It can still work well but you may need more ammunition. There is a book called "The Bipolar Child" which people here also recommend - if someone can give details that would be good.</p><p></p><p>Hang in there, keep calm.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 36223, member: 1991"] Coupla things - 1) The homework. It sounds to me like you guys weren't the wones pushing her to do her homework, she was motivated, bus stressing about it. Am I right? I get this from easy child 2/difficult child 2 and difficult child 3 - they want to get the work done but get so worked up and frustrated they make life miserable for anyone within earshot. I'm not so much pushing them to do their work, as hosing them down so they don't explode. And keeping the attitude of "I'm not going to help you if you take it out on me" does work for me, better than anything else. The help I give - I will tutor for a maths problem, I will encourage, "buck them up" and generally be around. Rub their back, bring a snack, that sort of thing. But only if they're being nice to me. I recognise that the meltdowns are anxiety-based, but I still won't stick around for them. They have to calm down and come and fetch me, if they want me. Instead, I go to my room and read a book. I shut the door to my room if their noise is bothering me. if they get physically aggressive with the computer, I throw them out (regardless of where the work is at) because I can't risk damage to expensive equipment. 2) Didn't you ever read Dr Spock? Kids do the breath-holding thing around 12 months and up. They do it to get a reaction - it's pure emotional blackmail. It IS far preferable to cutting or other forms of violence, but she's doing it because it is working - you reacted. You threatened. And there really is no need. Because another point Dr Spock made, is that the best thing you can do when a kid holds their breath is to walk away. Ignore. If, by some amazing feat of personal strength they succeed in overcoming the urge to breathe and fall unconscious due to lack of oxygen, they will no longer be holding their breath. The body will take over and they will breathe again. Don't fall for her blackmail. Do not react. Walk away. But also recognise - she is panicky and afraid. Seeing her mother is making her all the more unsettled and she is trying to re-establish the ground rules for interaction, each time she comes back. I'm going to give you a crash course in how the human body works, with oxygen and carbon dioxide levels. You should be mightily reassured, as well as better equipped to respond in as laid back a way as possible to the threats. You don't need to touch her. Some people used to throw a glass of cold water on a breath-holder, but that is considered assault these days (the cold water would cause them to almost instinctively take in a deep breath, a gasp). Our bodies respond automatically to blood levels of carbon dioxide. They do NOT respond to oxygen levels, which is how breath-holders can even try this trick. But there is always a balance between oxygen levels and carbon dioxide levels. So the body only worries about one of them. Carbon dioxide. We breathe in air which contains about 20% oxygen and a fraction of a percent of carbon dioxide. What we breathe out contains about 5% carbon dioxide and about 10% oxygen. Our cells are constantly working and living. This means that even if we're asleep, each cell is using up oxygen and producing carbon dioxide. Both these gases travel in the bloodstream, attached to the red blood cells. There is a tiny group of cells on both sides of your neck which actually measure the carbon dioxide levels in the blood. They then send signals to the brain stem to either speed up or slow down breathing, according to whether carbon dioxide levels are low or high. (Example: when we exercise, our bodies burn oxygen faster, much faster, and carbon dioxide builds up really fast, so our lungs end up taking bigger and faster breaths to blow off all this extra carbon dioxide). If you like to swim underwater, you might have tried hyperventilating or overbreathing before taking that one big breath and diving in. It is very dangerous. A person who takes a lot of breaths, deep and fast, is forcing a faster breathing rate onto a body which doesn't need it. The carbon dioxide levels drop to very low. This on its own isn't dangerous, but it does reduce the urge to breathe, because there is no signal coming in from those cells on the neck. (A surgeon may get his patient onto pure oxygen, just before making an incision. This causes a short period, a couple of minutes maybe, in which the patient doesn't breathe, because the body has no need to). Then the person takes one big, deep breath. In goes a lungful of 80% nitrogen (inert to our bodies), 20% oxygen and a fraction of a percent carbon dioxide, which does nothing to bring up carbon dioxide levels in the blood. Then the person dives underwater. Now, if you do this without going underwater, you can find you can hold your breath for a lot longer before you feel the urge to breathe. You may even feel you can hold off this urge indefinitely, but eventually the urge will force you - it is irresistible. What is driving this urge is the level of carbon dioxide, slowly rising purely because the body is slowly converting the oxygen via cell metabolism. What CAN happen - as the body is using up oxygen, the level of oxygen in the bloodstream is falling. Where does the blood get its oxygen? From that lungful which is now getting a bit stale. The oxygen level can sometimes fall too low for consciousness and the person passes out. They still may have no urge to breathe because their carbon dioxide levels are still too low for the urge to re-breathe to kick in. But at some stage their carbon dioxide levels rise high enough to trigger the breathing reflex. If the person is unconscious, they cannot over-ride this. if the person is unconscious and underwater, they drown. So next time she holds her breath, even if she's plugging fingers in here or there, ignore her. If/when she falls unconscious her muscles will relax and she will breathe normally again. There is no chance of brain damage from trying to not breathe - you fall unconscious long before the oxygen levels get low enough to cause harm. She will be fine, until she thinks up some new way to torture you. As for "The Explosive Child" - it IS harder when they have BiPolar (BP). It can still work well but you may need more ammunition. There is a book called "The Bipolar Child" which people here also recommend - if someone can give details that would be good. Hang in there, keep calm. Marg [/QUOTE]
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