OH THE SHAME - I'm done.
- Thread starter Star*
- Start date
goldenguru
Active Member
I don't have any words - I'm just really sorry that you are going through this. Truly.
WhymeMom?
No real answers to life..
Oh, Star, I so know your pain...... My son is presently in jail, only for five years, but there are things coming down that will probably send him away for much longer and he has certainly used up his three "strikes"..... I haven't talked to him or seen him in over a year...... I won't go to see him in jail and have told him this...... my hope was that this might keep him from committing crimes and keep him out of jail..... yeah, in my dreams........ Most people do not ask about him anymore....they don't know all the details, but know it's not a good situation...... the only saving grace is we have a easy child that we can be proud of and is almost the total opposite of difficult child...... It just leaves an empty space in my heart..... He will never be that happy little boy again..... He more than likely will spend the rest of his productive life in prison and when he gets out there will be no one to help him on the outside..... He has burned too many bridges..... Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, can only hope your story turns out differently than mine, but wouldn't bet the farm........ You may have to close your heart to the hurt....... thinking of you......
hearts and roses
Mind Reader
{{{Star}}} Having no first hand experience with difficult child and theft, I can't comment on how far I would go to defend her.
But I do have the difficult child/lying experience, as all of us here do. And like it or not, Dude has to save himself. You've exhausted all your efforts (I am so glad you didn't get as far as remortgaging anything) and you've nothing left to do but pray and keep the faith.
I'm so sorry for your hurting helpless heart. There are no words of encouragement that can take that away. You need to find a way to let the shame roll off - it's not your burden to carry, never was. Despite horrible odds, there are many kids who come from really bad places and end up in a fabulous life. Dude has made his choices knowingly. what happens next is up to him.
Sending hugs and continued prayers your way.
But I do have the difficult child/lying experience, as all of us here do. And like it or not, Dude has to save himself. You've exhausted all your efforts (I am so glad you didn't get as far as remortgaging anything) and you've nothing left to do but pray and keep the faith.
I'm so sorry for your hurting helpless heart. There are no words of encouragement that can take that away. You need to find a way to let the shame roll off - it's not your burden to carry, never was. Despite horrible odds, there are many kids who come from really bad places and end up in a fabulous life. Dude has made his choices knowingly. what happens next is up to him.
Sending hugs and continued prayers your way.
Hound dog
Nana's are Beautiful
Star
Sending some extra warm (((hugs))) this morning.
And maybe a bit of hope. My brother got 5 years, true. But the original sentence was much longer than that. Ten or 15 yrs. Anymore they don't serve anywhere near the original sentence. Overcrowding, underfunding and such make that impossible.
So. My brother got 10-15. He served 5, got out on "good behavior", served the rest on parol. The experience scared the **** out of him. Gave him a MAJOR attitude adjustment. And his nose has been pretty much clean every since. Still a difficult child. Still some issues. But nothing at all like he was when he went in.
Might have been the worst thing that ever happened to him. (it was) But it was also the best thing to have happened in the long run.
Doesn't make it any easier on you or DF. But something to think about.
Hang in there.
Sending some extra warm (((hugs))) this morning.
And maybe a bit of hope. My brother got 5 years, true. But the original sentence was much longer than that. Ten or 15 yrs. Anymore they don't serve anywhere near the original sentence. Overcrowding, underfunding and such make that impossible.
So. My brother got 10-15. He served 5, got out on "good behavior", served the rest on parol. The experience scared the **** out of him. Gave him a MAJOR attitude adjustment. And his nose has been pretty much clean every since. Still a difficult child. Still some issues. But nothing at all like he was when he went in.
Might have been the worst thing that ever happened to him. (it was) But it was also the best thing to have happened in the long run.
Doesn't make it any easier on you or DF. But something to think about.
Hang in there.
Hey, Star, Just checking in today to see how you are going.
I truly hope you can reach the point where you don't feel any shame over Dude's actions. His choices and actions truly are NOT your fault. You have absolutely no reason to be embarrassed or ashamed, though I understand that itis hard to stop feeling that way. This would probably be something your therapist could help with.
You have been such an awesome mom to Dude, and it hoovers that you haven't gotten nearly as many of the happy and proud moments as you deserve.
hugs.
I truly hope you can reach the point where you don't feel any shame over Dude's actions. His choices and actions truly are NOT your fault. You have absolutely no reason to be embarrassed or ashamed, though I understand that itis hard to stop feeling that way. This would probably be something your therapist could help with.
You have been such an awesome mom to Dude, and it hoovers that you haven't gotten nearly as many of the happy and proud moments as you deserve.
hugs.
Star*
call 911........call 911
I always fish - I can't cut bait it makes me barf.....all those eyes staring up at me with little mouths barely moving going - THROW me BACK.....THROW ME Baaaaaaaack.
I'm better today....it's just so hard to get here.
And the foster mom called me last night - (I refused calls from Dude) and she told me that Dude was with HER Friday (????) and that little boy moved three weeks ago and WAS not anywhere near Dude.
She said she would get to the bottom of it. I told her fine. She told me to hang in there - I told her I was tired of hanging.
Whatever.......ya know......
I'm better today....it's just so hard to get here.
And the foster mom called me last night - (I refused calls from Dude) and she told me that Dude was with HER Friday (????) and that little boy moved three weeks ago and WAS not anywhere near Dude.
She said she would get to the bottom of it. I told her fine. She told me to hang in there - I told her I was tired of hanging.
Whatever.......ya know......
Allan-Matlem
Active Member
Hi,
I am so sorry about the whole situation and understand your feelings. I think Byron Katie
http://www.thework.com/index.asp can be a help to accept the new reality. I appreciate he is your one and only son , I don't believe in cutting ties , I believe in providing ' relationship and emotional support , nothing more .
I am praying that he will havea light bulb moment and see how the system can empower him and not how he can work the system and get your help in doing that. What is important to God is the efforts we make in raising kids , getting help and learning , the result is not in our hands . In fact there is a Jewish source that says the way children turn out , depends amongst other things to good fortune.
I hear you are tired of hanging in , maybe it is time to focus on you and your important relationships. being selfish and nurturing ourselves is for our kids as well , you need to be strong when he comes out .
Sending prayers and positive thoughts in your direction
Allan
I am so sorry about the whole situation and understand your feelings. I think Byron Katie
http://www.thework.com/index.asp can be a help to accept the new reality. I appreciate he is your one and only son , I don't believe in cutting ties , I believe in providing ' relationship and emotional support , nothing more .
I am praying that he will havea light bulb moment and see how the system can empower him and not how he can work the system and get your help in doing that. What is important to God is the efforts we make in raising kids , getting help and learning , the result is not in our hands . In fact there is a Jewish source that says the way children turn out , depends amongst other things to good fortune.
I hear you are tired of hanging in , maybe it is time to focus on you and your important relationships. being selfish and nurturing ourselves is for our kids as well , you need to be strong when he comes out .
Sending prayers and positive thoughts in your direction
Allan
Steely
Active Member
So Star* I can only tell you that I am thinking of you and praying for you.
I can relate on the deepest level to what you are saying - and although I am not going through the exact same circumstances - I know that detaching, or cutting the ties is a long term, painful process - especially when we are talking about kids who have the emotional IQ of a 14 year old, when chronologically they are 18.
I will probably be the only one to say this, and I could be suffering from my own personal co-dependence issues, but personally I would mortgage the land to pay for a good attorney. An attny that could help explain to the judge the mental challenges this young man faces when it comes to Executive Functioning, an attny that could explain the abuse he was a victim of at an early age and the after effects, and an attny that could help the judge see that what this boy needs is rehabilitation, not jail.
To only have one son who you raised single handedly, and have then have to entertain the concept of completing detaching from, is monumental.
I am praying for you.
I can relate on the deepest level to what you are saying - and although I am not going through the exact same circumstances - I know that detaching, or cutting the ties is a long term, painful process - especially when we are talking about kids who have the emotional IQ of a 14 year old, when chronologically they are 18.
I will probably be the only one to say this, and I could be suffering from my own personal co-dependence issues, but personally I would mortgage the land to pay for a good attorney. An attny that could help explain to the judge the mental challenges this young man faces when it comes to Executive Functioning, an attny that could explain the abuse he was a victim of at an early age and the after effects, and an attny that could help the judge see that what this boy needs is rehabilitation, not jail.
To only have one son who you raised single handedly, and have then have to entertain the concept of completing detaching from, is monumental.
I am praying for you.
Star,
My heart is breaking for you. As I read all the replies here, I've been thinking about what I would do in your shoes. After everything you've been through with Dude - all the placements, the couseling, the second, third, and fourth chances you've given him - I keep hearing Witz's words in my head:
Putting yourself and DF in debt isn't going to change Dude. You can spend tens of thousands on the best lawyer, get Dude off scott free (or not), and chances are he'll end up right back in the same place a year from now, if not sooner.
Maybe prison will be his personal bottom. Maybe not. Maybe he'll get 15 years and get out in 5. Maybe the public defender is wrong, and he won't get convicted at all. I don't have a crystal ball, and I learned long ago that worrying about what might happen is guaranteed to wreck my physical and mental health - and accomplish nothing.
My advice? (from personal experience with a train-wreck of a kid who refused to let us help her) - be there for emotional support and emotional support only. No finacial support, no letter writing or intervening on his behalf. It's time for Dude to man-up and face the music. Yes, it stinks that he's being accused of something he didn't actually do. But as we always told difficult child, if you associate with bad people, you're going to get blamed. Not to mention the times he's gotten away with crimes. If he's innocent, he need to advocate for himself, pay his fines, prove that he's a hard-working, upstanding citizen.
Nobody can "save" Dude but Dude. Not you, not a lawyer, not the judge, not God...only Dude. HE needs to decide if he's going to fish or cut bait. YOU need to try and move on with YOUR life. Take a weekend getaway with DF, take a class, start a new hobby, anything - as long as it's something YOU want to do, just for yourself.
You, DF and Dude remain in my prayers.
Genny
My heart is breaking for you. As I read all the replies here, I've been thinking about what I would do in your shoes. After everything you've been through with Dude - all the placements, the couseling, the second, third, and fourth chances you've given him - I keep hearing Witz's words in my head:
Putting yourself and DF in debt isn't going to change Dude. You can spend tens of thousands on the best lawyer, get Dude off scott free (or not), and chances are he'll end up right back in the same place a year from now, if not sooner.
Maybe prison will be his personal bottom. Maybe not. Maybe he'll get 15 years and get out in 5. Maybe the public defender is wrong, and he won't get convicted at all. I don't have a crystal ball, and I learned long ago that worrying about what might happen is guaranteed to wreck my physical and mental health - and accomplish nothing.
My advice? (from personal experience with a train-wreck of a kid who refused to let us help her) - be there for emotional support and emotional support only. No finacial support, no letter writing or intervening on his behalf. It's time for Dude to man-up and face the music. Yes, it stinks that he's being accused of something he didn't actually do. But as we always told difficult child, if you associate with bad people, you're going to get blamed. Not to mention the times he's gotten away with crimes. If he's innocent, he need to advocate for himself, pay his fines, prove that he's a hard-working, upstanding citizen.
Nobody can "save" Dude but Dude. Not you, not a lawyer, not the judge, not God...only Dude. HE needs to decide if he's going to fish or cut bait. YOU need to try and move on with YOUR life. Take a weekend getaway with DF, take a class, start a new hobby, anything - as long as it's something YOU want to do, just for yourself.
You, DF and Dude remain in my prayers.
Genny
Hey Star,
just read Genny's post and I have to agree with her. You can't save Dude, only Dude can do that. I know I haven't dealt with the same thing as you in regards to the jail thing but I have dealt with a kid who would not allow us to help her and in fact in helping her we only caused her to be more helpless and less inclined to help herself. When we quit helping she proved she could take care of herself---not in the way we wanted her to but nonetheless she is on her own and in charge of her life. She's still manipulative and lies and does who knows what all but we are out of it and can lead our lives the way we want to.
So sorry it has all come to this.
Much love,
Jane
just read Genny's post and I have to agree with her. You can't save Dude, only Dude can do that. I know I haven't dealt with the same thing as you in regards to the jail thing but I have dealt with a kid who would not allow us to help her and in fact in helping her we only caused her to be more helpless and less inclined to help herself. When we quit helping she proved she could take care of herself---not in the way we wanted her to but nonetheless she is on her own and in charge of her life. She's still manipulative and lies and does who knows what all but we are out of it and can lead our lives the way we want to.
So sorry it has all come to this.
Much love,
Jane
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Maybe I was somewhat lucky in that I couldnt financially help cory out so that was never even considered. I didnt even have to factor into our plans...would we or would we not...pay for lawyers. Just simply wasnt going to happen. Now that isnt to say he hasnt thought about getting a good job himself and getting a good lawyer! I just do the Hmmmmm thing.
I think I have become resigned to the fact that I have done all I could and if they want to continue on this path...well..there is only one place it will get them. I went and read on the board at prisontalk and there are more parents there just like us. Some facing far greater sentences. Just how does one deal with hearing the sentence of 115 years?
I think I have become resigned to the fact that I have done all I could and if they want to continue on this path...well..there is only one place it will get them. I went and read on the board at prisontalk and there are more parents there just like us. Some facing far greater sentences. Just how does one deal with hearing the sentence of 115 years?
Star*
call 911........call 911
Dearest Friends All,
I thank you so much for every opinion, idea, thought, prayer, bit of advice, guidance, caring and love. I think some days rather when I can not seem to hold my own head up - you all take 1 finger and push to keep me focused and forward moving.
When I was younger I was an eternal optimist. EVERYTHING would be okay with time and love. IF something was broken you didn't throw it away you fixed it. I keep thinking of our Nancy and her duct tape upbringing because in our home as well everything was fixed with the silver tape. If I didn't think I would be thrown clear out of court I would wrap Dude up in duct tape at his trial and tell everyone - I know he looks 18 but he's really 13. I know at some point in your life with your adult children you have to let them continually mess up and not step in. I have my doubts anymore whether it really is valid to commit crimes and then jump back and say "I had a horrible child hood." I don't know how my own life would be today if I had been traded for crack cocaine as a child and had my bio fathers drug dealer molest me. Maybe I would have gotten over the anger and triumphed, maybe I would be just like Dude and be layers and layers of mess ups, low self esteem and wouldn't have taken advantage of the help I was given. (Some days I hate Dave Thomas)
I know too and believe that it has come to the point where in younger days I would have already had a battle plan, a notebook FULL of ideas, a plan A, plan B, plan C to present to the attorney. My only shock in her is her advice to TAKE THE 15 years now, admit your guilt if you want and I can get you 7.....strike 2 felony at 18. I feel I have come to that place in my life and become the women that used to irk me with their negativity and jadedness. I silently say "I'm sorry" to everyone I ever scoffed at. They really did know a thing or two about life. My plan now? Butt out, sit back...concentrate on sleeping, get a second job, sell some things that have become White elephants in my home. Get on with my life and just pass Dude and say "I love you, how are you coming on your case?" and let it go.
I'm such a take charge person. Take charge or take over or disaster relief specialist and was really really good at it all.....Now? Not so much. And it makes me feel empty, sad, and bitter.
I have advocated for mentally ill children for years. I have stepped up, stepped in, and stepped out on a limb. And now I think I'm stepping down, and I don't know how.
So bear with me....it's a transition and I hear you all...and I'm listening. I just have to get off the 53 mile horse ride in my own way (if you know what I mean)
THanks LOADS girls-
You are all so appreciated.
Star
I thank you so much for every opinion, idea, thought, prayer, bit of advice, guidance, caring and love. I think some days rather when I can not seem to hold my own head up - you all take 1 finger and push to keep me focused and forward moving.
When I was younger I was an eternal optimist. EVERYTHING would be okay with time and love. IF something was broken you didn't throw it away you fixed it. I keep thinking of our Nancy and her duct tape upbringing because in our home as well everything was fixed with the silver tape. If I didn't think I would be thrown clear out of court I would wrap Dude up in duct tape at his trial and tell everyone - I know he looks 18 but he's really 13. I know at some point in your life with your adult children you have to let them continually mess up and not step in. I have my doubts anymore whether it really is valid to commit crimes and then jump back and say "I had a horrible child hood." I don't know how my own life would be today if I had been traded for crack cocaine as a child and had my bio fathers drug dealer molest me. Maybe I would have gotten over the anger and triumphed, maybe I would be just like Dude and be layers and layers of mess ups, low self esteem and wouldn't have taken advantage of the help I was given. (Some days I hate Dave Thomas)
I know too and believe that it has come to the point where in younger days I would have already had a battle plan, a notebook FULL of ideas, a plan A, plan B, plan C to present to the attorney. My only shock in her is her advice to TAKE THE 15 years now, admit your guilt if you want and I can get you 7.....strike 2 felony at 18. I feel I have come to that place in my life and become the women that used to irk me with their negativity and jadedness. I silently say "I'm sorry" to everyone I ever scoffed at. They really did know a thing or two about life. My plan now? Butt out, sit back...concentrate on sleeping, get a second job, sell some things that have become White elephants in my home. Get on with my life and just pass Dude and say "I love you, how are you coming on your case?" and let it go.
I'm such a take charge person. Take charge or take over or disaster relief specialist and was really really good at it all.....Now? Not so much. And it makes me feel empty, sad, and bitter.
I have advocated for mentally ill children for years. I have stepped up, stepped in, and stepped out on a limb. And now I think I'm stepping down, and I don't know how.
So bear with me....it's a transition and I hear you all...and I'm listening. I just have to get off the 53 mile horse ride in my own way (if you know what I mean)
THanks LOADS girls-
You are all so appreciated.
Star
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Star...I so know what you mean. I have advocated, begged, pleaded, led him by the hand, stood on my head and did just about every other assorted thing known to mankind I could think of over the years to attempt to get mine some semblance of reasonable behavior. Heavens to Betsy...I have even allowed him to live with me far longer than he ever should have been here. I was convinced that with enough time and guidance and just one more chance...he would turn it around. NOT! I kept waiting for that magic year.
Well now I am going to still be waiting but I guess Im going to be waiting from a different place. I am going to love my son that is not with me because of choices he has made. I am going to borrow Timer Lady's definition of a family of different addresses even if one of those addresses happens to be the state pen. I am going to know that I did all I could do for him. I can still find out what the rules are for whatever facility he is in and write to him and if possible, send him books or packages (if I want to do so).
In the meantime, I am going to go see his daughter in a pageant this weekend and take pictures. I will send him a few. Time will go on without him.
Well now I am going to still be waiting but I guess Im going to be waiting from a different place. I am going to love my son that is not with me because of choices he has made. I am going to borrow Timer Lady's definition of a family of different addresses even if one of those addresses happens to be the state pen. I am going to know that I did all I could do for him. I can still find out what the rules are for whatever facility he is in and write to him and if possible, send him books or packages (if I want to do so).
In the meantime, I am going to go see his daughter in a pageant this weekend and take pictures. I will send him a few. Time will go on without him.
N
Nomad
Guest
Star...I am at a loss. Why was Dude in this man's yard?
I too have found issues with mental illness probably more challenging than any other issue out there. It is a struggle to keep from letting it crush your spirit.
Do you have a therapist you can speak with? What about a minister or other religious leader to talk with? You need and deserve LOTS of emotional and spiritual reinforcement.
I too have found issues with mental illness probably more challenging than any other issue out there. It is a struggle to keep from letting it crush your spirit.
Do you have a therapist you can speak with? What about a minister or other religious leader to talk with? You need and deserve LOTS of emotional and spiritual reinforcement.
everywoman
Well-Known Member
Star--
I have been where you've been. I have walked in your shoes.
I knew when difficult child committed his last crime that he was not guilty of the crime he was charged with. In fact, each time he has been charged, it has always been for something besides what he really did. Each time he faced charges I took the same stance---if any part of what you are charged with is true---you will face the charges.
So, he really didn't bash anyone's mailbox. He was in the backseat of a compact with no windows. He was in the car. Charges: Destruction of property.
So, he didn't really make the harassing phone call to the guys who "lynched" him. He did have a friend make the call from another location, another phone. Charges: Unlawful use of a phone.
So, he didn't really steal and forge the check. He did try to cash it. Charges: felony forgery.
So, he wasn't really drinking the alcohol in the car. He was driving around with a friend who was drinking. Charges: minor in possession.
Each time he was a little bit guilty. Each time, he had to face those charges with a guilty plea. The felony could have gotten him 15 years. I didn't hire an attorney for him except when he was a minor and the pd would have cost $500 (because he was a minor and I was legally responsible for his debts). I paid an attorney whose daughter I taught $100 to go to court with him so he could plead guilty.
I always thought he would learn from his mistakes and not take it to the next level if I made him face the charges even if they were unfair. I think now that I was right.
But, I made him believe that I knew they were unfair, and that was my biggest mistake. I made him accountable to the law but not to himself. I made excuses right along with him. I didn't correct him when the other boys who actually bashed the mailboxes got off with PTI because they were adults and he faced 9 months of strict probation and service hours. I agreed with him that yes, it wasn't fair. I shouldn't have. When he faced the felony forgery charge, I told him that it was unfair that the others who actually stole the check and forged it got off free. When he lost his license for 6 months for MIP, I commiserated with him of the unfairness of it all. And I regret my choices in how I dealt with his "low self esteem" more than anything else I have ever done as a parent.
I don't even know if this makes sense to you. But, for some reason, I had to write it today. Hope it helps in your struggle to gain some insight into yours and dude's relationship.
I have been where you've been. I have walked in your shoes.
I knew when difficult child committed his last crime that he was not guilty of the crime he was charged with. In fact, each time he has been charged, it has always been for something besides what he really did. Each time he faced charges I took the same stance---if any part of what you are charged with is true---you will face the charges.
So, he really didn't bash anyone's mailbox. He was in the backseat of a compact with no windows. He was in the car. Charges: Destruction of property.
So, he didn't really make the harassing phone call to the guys who "lynched" him. He did have a friend make the call from another location, another phone. Charges: Unlawful use of a phone.
So, he didn't really steal and forge the check. He did try to cash it. Charges: felony forgery.
So, he wasn't really drinking the alcohol in the car. He was driving around with a friend who was drinking. Charges: minor in possession.
Each time he was a little bit guilty. Each time, he had to face those charges with a guilty plea. The felony could have gotten him 15 years. I didn't hire an attorney for him except when he was a minor and the pd would have cost $500 (because he was a minor and I was legally responsible for his debts). I paid an attorney whose daughter I taught $100 to go to court with him so he could plead guilty.
I always thought he would learn from his mistakes and not take it to the next level if I made him face the charges even if they were unfair. I think now that I was right.
But, I made him believe that I knew they were unfair, and that was my biggest mistake. I made him accountable to the law but not to himself. I made excuses right along with him. I didn't correct him when the other boys who actually bashed the mailboxes got off with PTI because they were adults and he faced 9 months of strict probation and service hours. I agreed with him that yes, it wasn't fair. I shouldn't have. When he faced the felony forgery charge, I told him that it was unfair that the others who actually stole the check and forged it got off free. When he lost his license for 6 months for MIP, I commiserated with him of the unfairness of it all. And I regret my choices in how I dealt with his "low self esteem" more than anything else I have ever done as a parent.
I don't even know if this makes sense to you. But, for some reason, I had to write it today. Hope it helps in your struggle to gain some insight into yours and dude's relationship.
