OK - I know that everyone is going to be seeing this on the news soon enough...

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DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Exactly rm. We had a mass shooting in Fayetteville NC years ago the same year we moved to this town where a nut job drove his car into a very nice restaurant and then opened fire at dinner time. At that time it was the largest shooting in the US. I am sure there were families with children there.
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
Good for you, Step. When we have kids, we should know that there are certain adult activities that we shouldn't take them to. I'm sure that a lot of kids love violent movies when they're little, but is that really what we want their entertainment to be? For crying out loud, we watched "The Simpsons" twice in our home because that's all it took for M to start acting exactly like Bart Simpson but without the lesson that Bart learns at the end of every episode. Bart Simpson may be funny but he's not fun to live with. It was "Mr. Rogers", "Reading Rainbow", "3, 2, 1, Contact" for us. You can bet your sweet bippy I wasn't into those programs and I would have rather have watched "The Simpsons", but "The Simpsons" made M a jerk and I wasn't going to have ANY of that.
EXACTLY. Sometimes it is unavoidable to put your child in a dangerous situation - but if it can be avoided why wouldn't you? And that includes violence and nudity in films. There's a reason for the ratings.

I never much liked the Simpsons. I could not understand why it was FUNNY that Bart was such a delinquent with no respect. I still mostly don't find it funny. husband adores it. Probably because his family is dysfunctional in similar ways...

And I loved "Sesame Street" and the ones you mentioned. Not so much anymore, but if I have to watch them repeatedly for Bean, I WILL.

Some of you people are just as bad as those who are judging the shooter's parents. You hope the parents of the kids at this movie are capable of learning a lesson? What lesson? That if you take your kids to a movie late at night, they might get shot? They could just as easily have been shot at 6:00 p.m.

Actually, the lesson would be more along the lines of - horrid stuff happens, you need to be more vigilant and if that means you protect a helpless infant who can't protect themselves, that's what you're supposed to do as a parent. Fact of the matter is, yes, crime happens all the time, but more so at night. And truthfully, I was pointing more to the inappropriate situation as I believe witzend was, too.
 

MyFriendKita

Active Member
Actually, the lesson would be more along the lines of - horrid stuff happens, you need to be more vigilant and if that means you protect a helpless infant who can't protect themselves, that's what you're supposed to do as a parent. Fact of the matter is, yes, crime happens all the time, but more so at night.

I don't see how you can accuse these parents of failing to protect a helpless infant just because they took it to a late movie where a horrible crime occurred; this crime could have happened at any time of day or night. Since there was a shooting at a mall a few months ago, does that mean anyone who takes their child to a mall in the evening is a bad parent? I doubt that either of these kids would have been harmed in any way, had the shooting not taken place. I'm glad you have perfect children and can afford to be so judgmental of other parents who don't have your superior parenting skills.
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
I don't see how you can accuse these parents of failing to protect a helpless infant just because they took it to a late movie where a horrible crime occurred; this crime could have happened at any time of day or night. Since there was a shooting at a mall a few months ago, does that mean anyone who takes their child to a mall in the evening is a bad parent? I doubt that either of these kids would have been harmed in any way, had the shooting not taken place. I'm glad you have perfect children and can afford to be so judgmental of other parents who don't have your superior parenting skills.
rm, I'm not accusing them of failing to protect a helpless infant. I am expressing my disagreement with their choices. As far as perfect children - my IMPERFECT stepdaughter and I just had this conversation and what she said about the parents was far worse than what I have said here. I'm not saying they could protect the child from the shooting or from crime in general. That can happen anywhere including in their own home. I was wondering about a society that thinks it's OK to expose very young children to violent entertainment. It's my very old fashioned opinion that kids belong at home, in bed, late at night. As do I.
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
rm, I was NOT hoping that the parents of infants and toddlers would learn a lesson. I was simply astounded by their immature selfishness.
 

tiredmommy

Well-Known Member
I'm also concerned about the tone of this thread. Don't we all hate how OUR parenting choices have been discussed among others? Haven't we all had enough of fingers being pointed at us? Aren't we doing the same thing here? Why? Does it change anything or make the world a better place? Or do we just feel like better parents than those that had children in that particular theater for that particular night? Does this mean we're smarter or better in some way? Isn't there enough blame in the world already?!?!?! Why must we snipe at other parents that obviously have been through a horrible, life-changing event? Why not offer our support and good thoughts for their healing and that of their children?

The only person that didn't have a right to be there was the shooter.
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
I understand, TM, but that wasn't the point. Good parenting is something that can be taught and learned and can be seen from far away. This is not one of those times.
But the conversation has devolved into somewhat of a shouting match ...
 

tiredmommy

Well-Known Member
Terry, we don't know the reasoning as to "why" there were young children in a movie theater watchimg a PG-13 movie after midnight and, really, it's not our place to expect any sort of justification as to "why". Every time a tragedy occurs there are people that point fingers and blame the victims involved. We are not at our best by sitting on the sidelines and picking apart other's lives. We demand respect for ourselves but don't extend the courtesy to others?

How is this different than new mother's nursing in public? Or allowing a child to cry it out in public so you can get your errands done? Or deciding for or against vaccinating? Or letting our child fail at school? Or not fight the homework/dental care/clean bedroom battles anymore? Or co-sleeping until the child is in puberty?

It's judgemental to sit on the outside looking in and decide what is good parenting. Who are we to judge? How many of us have had to endure other parents and family members tell us "well, I would never..." or, "if that were my child I would..."?
 

witzend

Well-Known Member
Some of you people are just as bad as those who are judging the shooter's parents. You hope the parents of the kids at this movie are capable of learning a lesson? What lesson? That if you take your kids to a movie late at night, they might get shot? They could just as easily have been shot at 6:00 p.m.

I'm pretty sure that whatever it is that you're talking about is not what I'm talking about.
 

witzend

Well-Known Member
I don't see how you can accuse these parents of failing to protect a helpless infant just because they took it to a late movie where a horrible crime occurred;

I was not discussing the shooting, as I made very clear. Your line of thought on this is way off base as to what the conversation is. You are actually the only one talking about the shooting. Everyone else is talking about loud scary movies.
 

tiredmommy

Well-Known Member
I think it's important that, when we see a parent doing something or allowing something that we wouldn't, we realize we are seeing one snippet of this person as a parent. Also, what may be completely inappropriate for one family may be acceptable in another. I'll give a comparison:

We have always been very routine oriented where Duckie is concerned. Regular meal schedule, bedtime and routines worked better for us due to her personality. health issues and nature. We've had to be downright rigid.

My younger cousin has 4 girls and has absolutely no routine to speak of: no set bedtime, dinner is whatever and whenever it happens, the house is often a mess. And she is hands down one of the best parents I know. As a matter of fact, Duckie will go to this family if husband and I were to die.

We have incredibly different parenting styles but we both want what's best for our children. That's what counts.

I'll be giving these parents the benefit of the doubt because I believe it is the right thing to do and that they know their family's best. Even if they do things differently than me.
 

witzend

Well-Known Member
I guess what I was thinking of when I started this post was about particularly the noise, and the emotional atmosphere of scary movies. I often see people with infants or toddlers at very loud movies and yes they are asleep - with scrunched up foreheads, clenched fists, and a great big frown on their face. I've never seen one sleep peacefully. In so far as judging others, I suppose I do, and I won't apologize for that. I don't say anything to them, it is their choice. In my opinion it's a very poor choice, but it's not my place to tell them that.

Are they bothering me? Yes. When the baby is sitting within eye-shot and grimacing and grunting and spasming with every loud noise and I see and hear it, it bothers me. It's plainly not a pleasant experience for the baby. When a 3 year old or a 5 year old is restless in their seats and fidgeting at a movie with more mature scenes, it bothers me. That's fine for Shrek. If I go to a movie that's rated G, or even PG with a kid's theme, that's the place where they get to learn appropriate behavior. I can't believe when I go to see the final Harry Potter movie or Saving Private Ryan and there's a bored scared 4 year old there making a fuss. They're not happy there, they shouldn't be there, and it's inappropriate. If they act up and mom or dad won't take them out of the theater I will say something to mom or dad, or theater management if necessary.

Now, I think that this thread is getting into a fight territory, and I'm done with it.

I think it's important that, when we see a parent doing something or allowing something that we wouldn't, we realize we are seeing one snippet of this person as a parent. Also, what may be completely inappropriate for one family may be acceptable in another. I'll give a comparison:

We have always been very routine oriented where Duckie is concerned. Regular meal schedule, bedtime and routines worked better for us due to her personality. health issues and nature. We've had to be downright rigid.

My younger cousin has 4 girls and has absolutely no routine to speak of: no set bedtime, dinner is whatever and whenever it happens, the house is often a mess. And she is hands down one of the best parents I know. As a matter of fact, Duckie will go to this family if husband and I were to die.

We have incredibly different parenting styles but we both want what's best for our children. That's what counts.

I'll be giving these parents the benefit of the doubt because I believe it is the right thing to do and that they know their family's best. Even if they do things differently than me.
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
TM, a young mother nursing her child is nurturing her child, and perhaps doing it in a Wall Street office is in poor taste, and the ladies room might be more private. Still, nursing and nurturing are important, useful, and healthy. "Where" is splitting hairs. We've all seen that argument exploited to death in the media.

But I stand my ground when it comes to taking infants and toddlers to a violent movie in the middle of the night. It has nothing to do with-the shooting. I actually missed that part of the conversation in this thread. I was in at the beginning and then skipped to page two. At any rate, I still think it's poor parenting. Which leads me to my point, that ...

Being judgmental is not only useful in certain circumstances, it is an important part of anyone's philosophy. Without the ability to be judgmental, none of us could be good parents at all. We have to use our philosophy as a moral compass, and to never, ever pass judgment is downright dangerous.

But for the purposes of this board, for "our" group, we are a support group and we try not to unneccesarily pass judgment with-o knowing all of the facts. We're having a hard enough time with-o people pointing fingers. We need useful information and soft shoulders.

In the case of parents in any theater, I do pass judgment about those who take young kids to inappropriate movies at inappropriate times. I have sat through too many movies with-terrified, screaming kids and have seen other parents call the usher before I even had a chance. I can only imagine the nightmares those kids had afterward.

I am lifting it out of the context of the shooting and making it into a separate item.

I hope that clarifies it.
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Oops, Witzend, I just recapped what you typed because I replied to TM's note. Just another way of saying it. :)
 

MyFriendKita

Active Member
TM, a young mother nursing her child is nurturing her child, and perhaps doing it in a Wall Street office is in poor taste, and the ladies room might be more private. Still, nursing and nurturing are important, useful, and healthy. "Where" is splitting hairs. We've all seen that argument exploited to death in the media.

But I stand my ground when it comes to taking infants and toddlers to a violent movie in the middle of the night. It has nothing to do with-the shooting. I actually missed that part of the conversation in this thread. I was in at the beginning and then skipped to page two. At any rate, I still think it's poor parenting. Which leads me to my point, that ...

Being judgmental is not only useful in certain circumstances, it is an important part of anyone's philosophy. Without the ability to be judgmental, none of us could be good parents at all. We have to use our philosophy as a moral compass, and to never, ever pass judgment is downright dangerous.

But for the purposes of this board, for "our" group, we are a support group and we try not to unneccesarily pass judgment with-o knowing all of the facts. We're having a hard enough time with-o people pointing fingers. We need useful information and soft shoulders.

In the case of parents in any theater, I do pass judgment about those who take young kids to inappropriate movies at inappropriate times. I have sat through too many movies with-terrified, screaming kids and have seen other parents call the usher before I even had a chance. I can only imagine the nightmares those kids had afterward.

I am lifting it out of the context of the shooting and making it into a separate item.

I hope that clarifies it.

The parents of easy child's who judge those of us who have kids with behavioral problems think it's perfectly acceptable to judge us, too. You can't pick and choose when it's okay to judge another parent. You can have your own set of standards without passing judgment on everyone who does things differently than you do. You say you try not to judge without knowing all the facts, but you have no way of knowing whether any particular child is upset by any particular movie. You're assuming all small children are traumatized by what you consider inappropriate movies. I think that's up to each individual parent to decide for their child. I was afraid of "Alice in Wonderland" and "The Wizard of Oz." If taking your child to a violent movie is an example of poor parenting, then I'm a poor parent, although anyone who knows me would disagree. And my son seems to have survived my poor parenting, since I would almost call him a easy child now (almost). by the way, parents used to take kids to late movies all the time. They were called drive-ins.
 
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tiredmommy

Well-Known Member
Should young children go to amusement parks? Water parks? County fairs? Firework displays? Those are loud and potentially dangerous too. We were at a local historical presentation last night where the characters spoke of their experiences in a battle that included many civilians being lost. Should the parents have been warned that there would be a graphic description of a 9 year old boy being scalped from his eye brows to the back of his neck while his father watched helplessly? How about the commentary about local livestock feeding on the bodies those lost in the days that followed?

We say we want respect in our judgement as parents and deserve it because we've walked such a difficult road raising our challenging children. We complain about being looked down upon and yet that is exactly what has been happening on this thread. All I'm saying is that these parents also deserve the same respect that we wish we were afforded.

And I think it's valuable to base my moral compass on my beliefs and expectations of myself without falling into comparative morality. I've learned to view my decisions independently without looking to others' decisions to gauge where I stand, that's a very slippery slope to fall into. It's incredibly easy to pass a quick judgement without understanding why someone would do something when you don't walk in their shoes. No parent is perfect, every one of us makes mistakes and not one of us holds a deed to the moral high ground. To make a judgement call about what is right or not right for my family is one thing. To sit here and pat myself on the back for my superior parenting compared to someone else skills is another.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
The parents of the young baby and 4 year old girl have spoken out and said they just moved to that area and know very few people. She is still nursing her baby. The 4 year old is a huge Batman fan as is the mother and father and they have seen all the other movies and cartoons. Never in a million years could they have expected what happened. They decided at the last minute to go to this movie.

Most movies are loud. Especially these kinds of movies. I have no idea if this was an IMAX theater or not but if it was it would be even louder. I tend to think it wasnt because they would have mentioned it. Babies get used to loud sounds at home as you have TV's on, run vacuum cleaners around them, have people taking around them while they are sleeping. You cant keep the house completely quiet for them or they will never learn to accept noise.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
This is not about judging other parents, but it is about what is appropriate. of course we do't know the full circumstances, but generally - going to see a movie is classed as entertainment. Leisure. It is optional. You don't HAVE to do it. If you have to take your infant because you're still breastfeeding, then perhaps you need to consider - do I really NEED to see this movie?

We have ratings systems for a reason. I do think they need to be considered, when you're thinking of bringing a young child to a screening. And yes, some kids are scared by themes that would be okay for them according to the ratings system. One of my nephews was really upset by the monsters in Sesame Street, my sister hated that show because of the problems is caused whenever it came on and she hadn't had time to change the channel.

That said, easy child took my Baby Grand to a movie when she was about 2 months old. I can't remember what the movie was, but knowing easy child, it would not have been one with wildly fluctuating volume and sudden loud noise, because the baby was sensitive to sudden change in noise level. Also, I don't think she has been to a movie since so it may not have been as okay as she thought.

This thread was begun to ask people's opinions about whether we think it's okay to take really young kids to a MIDNIGHT screening of a movie which is rated well beyond their age level. My view - not okay.

And as for judging others - I find it interesting that such accusations are themselves couched in very judgmental terms, and are way beyond what this thread was originally about.

I may be accused of being judgmental, but I am judging the ACT, not the INDIVIDUAL. There is a difference.

Marg
 

tiredmommy

Well-Known Member
Marg~ The parents that take young children to late night movies have been referred to as immature, selfish and idiots in this thread. That's not disagreeing with choices, that's making a judgement about some one's character.
 
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