Older Difficult Child probably not going in to Marines after all...

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by ksm, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    I just spent about an hour talking to older daughter today. Now that she's less than one month of going to Boot Camp, she has decided that she should've told the truth when she first enlisted. She is now afraid if they find out her medical/mental history that they will dismiss her from the Marines and she would have trouble getting jobs or into college later.

    She admitted to me that the recruiter told her there would be lots of paperwork if she answered "yes" to certain questions, like if she had been on medication or saw a counselor... Her friend answered truthfully and was not accepted. He told her Not to answer truthfully, and that they would never find out.

    Not only is this hard for Difficult Child, but my son has now asked her to move out next month. I understand his point of view, as she has worked two different jobs in over a year...and that was only about 4 weeks for either one. Plus she is difficult to live with, even when things are going good. Very disorganized and lives in the moment.

    We were all just crossing our fingers that she would ship out in October. Now, even if they do go ahead and take her, it could be months before she gets approved.

    I have been so preoccupied with younger child, and her addiction and rehab issues, that it is overwhelming to deal with this. And a few years ago, I was so overwhelmed with older child's behavior, that I missed struggles that younger one was going thru.

    Ksm
     
  2. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm sorry KSM. I know you were counting on older Difficult Child to be leaving soon for Boot camp, it must be so disappointing.

    You have enough on your plate with younger Difficult Child. You might try contacting NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, they can be accessed online. I've heard that sometimes they can help with housing for our Difficult Child's. They also have excellent courses for us parents, where you might find support, guidance, information and resources. We're older now and these kinds of dramas impact us in profound ways, be careful with your own stress levels and take care of yourself.
     
  3. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    KSM
    So very sorry to hear this news. The love they plan is the life they lead. This is a set back for kk of you. Be kind and good to yourself.
     
  4. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    If she goes to them and tells them the truth at this point, most likely it will just be as if the enlistment never happened, as opposed to any kind of bad conduct discharge.

    Unless a crime is committed, most discharges during the 1st 180 days of training are "failure to adapt" and are as if the enlistment never happened.

    Her issue is whether there is a penalty for having lied under oath. That I don't know.

    She does need to go to her recruiter ASAP and tell them the whole truth, though; do the paperwork, and ride out the process from here.
     
  5. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    from what I have read, she isn't in any trouble, but it will definitely delay the process, and based on her history, they may do a waiver and see if she is allowed to join.

    I told her to tell them about her history, that she was removed from her parents, put in foster care, then adopted by us. And that we and the social workers felt that counseling would be beneficial.

    And in grade school, she was given medication for ADHD, but mostly was short trial periods. She did pass their aptitude testing and their physical exam and testing.

    The big thing is 2 to 3 years ago she took 10 or 12 pills when she was in a rage. I took her to ER, and they made us admit her to a place for teens, for 3 days.

    The info I read says she is still allowed to apply to other branches of the military.

    It's just that SHE NEEDS to leave this town. We need her to leave! Lol. She is just stagnating here...

    Ksm
     
  6. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    At the time husband went in (80s) ADHD medications were a deal breaker. AFAIK, a psychiatric admission for suicidal ideation could be as well.

    Like I said, let her come clean with her recruiter and see where it leads.

    If it's a deal breaker for the marines, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be easier for her to get into other services.
     
  7. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    I know. I am just so mad that the recruiter told her it caused too much paper work and just to say no to those questions. She has put everything on hold and even quit her job this month.

    Maybe she is worried about getting caught and then getting in trouble. Maybe she is worried that she couldn't get thru boot camp...

    Ksm
     
  8. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    That recruiter was wrong to tell her to lie on the forms, and probably ended up confusing her by making it seem that it was OK to do that.

    I'm glad she is going to let them know.

    Is there a plan B?
     
  9. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    If she doesn't make it through boot camp, so long as she doesn't commit a crime, it's a "failure to adapt" and it's as if the whole thing never happened.

    There's nothing that would affect her ability to get into school or get a job.
     
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  10. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member


    I have researched it. Even if she makes it thru boot camp, she could be dismissed at any time for false info. If she ever needed security clearance for specific jobs in the military, it could be found out. Many job applications ask if you have been discharged from the military.

    Copied and pasted:

    Lying to Get Into the Military is a Felony
    Let's get straight to the point. Knowingly giving false information or withholding required information on any recruiting form is a criminal offense (When the information would have made an individual ineligible to enlist, or would have required a waiver to enlist). It's not a misdemeanor, it's not the same as getting a speeding ticket. It's a felony offense, punishable by a $10,000 fine and three years in prison. If you lie to get into the military, you are committing a felony. It's that simple. If you get away with it long enough to actually enlist and are caught later, it's also a "military offense." You can be prosecuted for a violation of Article 83 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), which states:

    "Any person who--

    • (1) procures his own enlistment or appointment in the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his qualifications for that enlistment or appointment and receives pay or allowances thereunder
     
  11. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    Odds are, she would most likely be dismissed from military service with less than "honorable"

    I sent her this info I found at the same site. She is going to talk to the recruiter, yes the same guy, and tell her she wants to change her info. She is willing to say her friend that got turned down told her to lie, because if she tells higher ups what he had her to, he found lose his job.

    Copied and pasted:

    What if You've Already Lied. Is it too Late?
    So, what if you're already in the Delayed Entry Program (DEP)? Is it too late to tell the truth? No! As a rule, the military never prosecutes members in the DEP (I don't know of a single case where anyone in the DEP was ever criminally prosecuted by the military).

    At best, correcting false information on your enlistment paperwork while in the DEP will result in an angry recruiter and delay in when you can ship out to basic while a waiver is considered. At worse, you will be released from the DEP. Being released from the DEP is not the same as a fraudulent entry discharge.

    In fact, it's not really a discharge at all, because you receive no discharge characterization (i.e., "honorable," "General," or "Under Other Than Honorable"), and you don't receive a daughter Form 214 (Record of Discharge). If you are released from the DEP, you can honestly answer "no" to any employment application that asks if you've ever serviced in the military. Additionally, a discharge from the DEP has absolutely no effect on you if you wish to try and join a different military service (a discharge from the DEP may prevent you from joining the same service from who's DEP you were released from, however). Once you take that final oath and go on active duty, however, it's a completely different story.

    If you're in the DEP, and you've lied or withheld required information on your enlistment paperwork, it's YOUR responsibility to have it corrected. It's YOUR signature on the forms certifying that the information you've provided is correct and complete. You start with your recruiter. You INSIST that your paperwork be corrected, and you INSIST that you be shown proof of the correction. Tell your recruiter that you will absolutely tell the truth at MEPS on your final shipping day (before you take the active duty oath), even if it means disqualification.

    If your recruiter tries to talk you out of it, don't listen! It's your life, and it's YOUwho will suffer the consequences if your false statements are later discovered. If your recruiter absolutely refuses to help you correct the paperwork, inform them politely, but firmly, that if you do not receive assistance, you plan to report them for a violation of Article 84 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. You can report them using one of the addresses above, or report them directly to Service Laison at MEPS.
     
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  12. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    I think honesty is really the best policy! If you lie you forget what you said and it can bite you later and/or cause extreme stress/anxiety.

    Good luck.
     
  13. DoneDad

    DoneDad Active Member

    Even if she got in, she’d have to be worried all the time that they’d find out. Best to be upfront and do it the right way.
     
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