OMG they handcuffed her and took her away?!?!?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Nancy423, Nov 13, 2008.

  1. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    My difficult child had an episode today - bit a teacher. Substitute. Special Education teacher. Cops came to school - vice principal said it was policy. This teacher signed a complaint so they handcuffed her and took her to the station.

    We have a BIP on file from last year when she had an episode!!!! The BIP was NOT FOLLOWED. Vice principal couldn't tell me what the heck happened. He had not talked to the Special Education coordinator or to the district. Couldn't tell me why the BIP wasn't followed.

    husband had to WAIT AN HOUR BEFORE THE COPS WOULD LET HIM SEE HER!!! She was fingerprinted. husband refused to allow her to be questioned.

    The sub teacher had gotten herself to the urgent care. Said there was a possibility of skin puncture. Had blood work. The nurse at the school called me and asked me for specific history so they could tell the UC doctor. I told them to call difficult child's doctor upstairs. They're all freaked out because of her hair loss (fungal infection) which has been TREATED......

    Nurse wanted the ok to have blood work done on difficult child (oh, at no charge to me)......I said no.

    We're trying to find a lawyer.........where the heck to I even start???? I have until 10 am tomorrow (a meeting at school with- the whole district aparantly)
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  2. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Good grief. What a crummy policy.
    And they complain that the students can't follow directions????
    Is she mainstreamed or in a special school?
    How is she doing now?
    Were the cops okay to your husband when he finally saw her? Did they understand that it was a mental disability and that she's on medications? Especially at her age, the cops are usually pretty good about that.
    What a mess.
    I am so sorry.
  3. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    This is a tough one- you really need an attny who is familiar with Special Education law and juvenile defense, in my humble opinion. I would suggest starting looking through the phone book tonight and maybe even call and leave a few messages. And, first thing in the morning, call a Child Protection & Advocacy group if there is one in your area. Maybe you could look online tonight to see and have the phone number lined up. I think they would be your best help. I know- it really "hoovers" but hang in there.
  4. bran155

    bran155 Guest

    Call your local Student Advocacy Board. They are lawyer's who advocate for the rights of students. They charge on a sliding fee scale. Don't know if this situation applies but it's worth a shot.

    Good luck.
  5. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    We're on the phone now with- the family attorney. she's estate, but has a group of Special Education lawyers in the practice. They're expensive....

    She's in LDSC. at the local community school (K-8) She loves her 2 main teachers and hasn't had any behavior problems up until now. The cops (3 male by the way) were very protective and the head guy was actually really nice to her. They're saying we may not hear from the PD until after Christmas so we don't have any idea about charges or court dates.

    We'll get a better idea about the school position tomorrow. I'm so mad right now. This sub handled it all poorly which is how the episode happened. The sub didn't know abt difficult child's issues.
  6. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I would be interested to find out why the BIP wasn't followed, and also what information, if any, was given to the substitute regarding the class.

    I may be in the minority here, but speaking as a substitute teacher...I would have signed a complaint as well. I wouldn't accept my own child biting me, and there's no way I would accept that from another child, behavior disorder or not.

    I just saw Nancy's second post...the sub didn't know about the issues because no one tells the sub anything. The district protects the student's privacy while giving the sub nothing to work with. We don't know when we walk in a classroom who does what, who has what behavior issues, or anything about the kids, and no one tells us.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
  7. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I don't have any advice, just wanted to send a hug. This is absolutely crazy.

    What is going on with schools/teachers right now??? There's a plan, why wasn't it followed? I don't blame the teacher for being tested, but what happened that lead to that and the plan not being followed? Sheeesh.
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    That responsibility falls back onto the school. Personally, I would not attend any meeting with the school without an attny present. Even your friend you doesn't specialize in this would be better than no attny at all, in my humble opinion. You might want to post in the Special Education forum and see what they suggest. I don;t blame you for being livid. Schools sometimes are more worried about CYA'ing themselves than anything.
  9. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I feel sorry for the sub in this as well. She goes in there with no info,l no back-up, with a child whose plan hasn't been followed, gets bitten, does what she has to do (which is file a complaint) and about now, is finding out just how wrong she got things, BECAUSE SHE WASN'T TOLD!!

    Frankly, asking to do blood work on your child is a stupid first line of enquiry. The more sensible option is to talk to you, ask you if there is anything likely that could be nasty. Some kids of difficult child's age CAN have Hep C, B or A or HIV but really, it's unlikely. This would be the time to share this info with whoever is treating the sub. It's a commonsense way of handling it, but unfortunately, it sounds like litigation is on the school's mind (and sub's) and as a result it all becomes too adversarial.

    Of course you have to get legal advice. Your poor kid - she is also very much a victim in this. If her condition was not known to the sub then no wonder this all happened.

    I get so angry with schools - first for not following through, then for not informing staff.

    Confidentiality be blowed - a teacher needs to know what a teacher needs to know. Substitute or otherwise, they need to know. To not share such information - THAT is grounds for litigation, in my book. You and the sub should both be fighting the school on this one, on the same side.

    And I'm not down on all schools - it CAN be done. There ARE good schools and great teachers out there. If there were more of them, this site wouldn't be so busy.

  10. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I too would be angry! My difficult child always had a ton of problems with subs. One time it was a huge issue and the regular ed teacher was told by the principal and the district people that she had to leave notes about difficult child's bip for the sub.

    I do understand the sub being upset as well. She should have been told any pertinent information about working with difficult child.

    Not following the BIP-ugh! We had lots of issues with this in the past-one year one Special Education teacher didn't like part of the BIP (if she even really knew what was in it) and so she chose not to follow it-that year was the year difficult child was suspended 7 1/2 times. When we found out the administration and the district were not happy. They said the BIP needed to be implemented immediately and said maybe special training was needed for that teacher to work with difficult child. Since it was the end of the year and we knew she wouldn't be with difficult child the next year we declined.

    I hope the lawyers are able to help you out-what a mess.
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I'm sure you have a day filled with-mtngs, but just wanted to see if anything new has happened.
    Take care.
  12. Jena

    Jena New Member

    All I can say is how absolutley ridiculous to say the least. I am so sorry for what you are going through.

    The others gave you some great advice in regards to with whom to contact. Their really out of their minds doing that to her.

    Wow. Keep us posted and let us know how it goes. I wish you alot of luck.

  13. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    Yes, this is one area that I am very upset about. My difficult child has a HISTORY that's documented in her file. SOMEONE should have given her a heads up because the way she approached my child was incorrect. Given that she didn't know makes the whole situation worse. This district and school made the choice that they could handle daughter's situation. I gave them ALL the tools necessary to keep this from happening. I never held back anything. But it seems that I'm going to have to sit next to my difficult child in class every day because I cannot keep this from happening again. I cannot allow my child to go to jail every time she has an attack.

    I'm worried because we weren't able to get a Special Education lawyer to come to the meeting today. husband wants to postpone but I know the school won't allow her to return until we meet.
  14. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I may be entirely wrong but I think that the meeting being called pronto is the most effective way for schools to get rid of "problems". Via the CD family I found out just in the knick of time that the "meeting" was in actuality a Manifestation Meeting or Manifestation Hearing. The purpose of those meetings is to determine if the inappropriate behavior was or was not a "manifestation" of the documented difficult child issues. If I had waltzed into that meeting without being forewarned by the CD family my difficult child would have been expelled from the public school.

    The schools do NOT "play fair". I was well known at the school and I do
    have public speaking and sales skills. The head counselor had already presented the info to a number of "voting" participants before the meeting. I was able to convince the majority present that difficult child made his poor choice because he was not "protected" as called for by his IEP.

    Good luck. Remember :( don't trust them to have your child's interests
    at heart. DDD
  15. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    Luckily the meeting went well. she was suspended for a total of 6 days. We are required to have a Risk Assessment before she can return. We'll be going back to the mental hospital she went to years ago (where they told us she didn't have a behavior problem and they couldnt help us, go figure).

    We are also convening for an updated IEP on Friday to assess IEP info and analyze the BIP (which I've found to be very flimsy when I reread it last night). The principal said he's happy with her placement, and she's had such good behavior up till now. So we'll see what the assessment has for us. Yes, the school said this sub didn't have full disclosure - and doesn't need it. "There's too many staff memebers and students that she's around that they can't inform all of them." difficult child was caught red handed passing notes to a friend more than once. She was mad at being caught and ran out of the room. And even tho my difficult child did what she was supposed to (calming herself down away from the situation) that the incident was still within her control. the teacher confronted her and gave her the choice of going back to class or go to the office. I say that the teacher confronted too soon, before difficult child got out of her red zone. There are 2 sides to exactly what happened during the attack. Principal said difficult child jumped on the teacher's back (she's roughly the same size) and pulled her down, then bit her. Officer said to husband that difficult child pushed her and she fell, then bit her.

    difficult child admitted to biting, and gave pretty accurate details as to what happened. (which was the same story as the teacher's) But she's very fuzzy on the actual attack however.

    I contacted a student advocate this morning and will most likely have him join us for the meeting next week. I think if this sub was more aware, or difficult child had a trained aide, then we might not be in this situation.

    As for the assault charges.........all we can do is wait to see if the teacher follows thru with the complaint and figure out how to pay for a Special Education lawyer.:faint:
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    "As for the assault charges.........all we can do is wait to see if the teacher follows thru with the complaint and figure out how to pay for a Special Education lawyer."

    I am unfamiliar with your legal/educational system here, but if difficult child's behaviour would not have happened if the school had correctly followed the plan/had an appropriate plan in place, then surely the school is the body ultimately responsible for the teacher being bitten?

    Also, be very, very careful to not let the school deflect you into blaming your child - of course difficult child has rules she must follow, but if her problem behaviours were escalated because the school didn't handle things properly, then the cause is the initial cause - the lack of disclosure to the sub plus lack of plan in place.

    Example - a house burns down in a forest fire. Perhaps if there hadn't been firewood stacked against the wall, the damage to the house may not have been so complete. If there hadn't been hot winds driving the fire onto the house, maybe it wouldn't have caught alight. But if the firebug hadn't lit the fire a mile down the road, the high winds wouldn't have mattered and the firewood stack wouldn't have mattered.

    The firebug is ultimately responsible for the damage and any loss of life.

    In the same way - the underlying, ongoing problems that are under someone's control, are the causative factor. difficult child's condition (which is not under her control) is a contributing factor, not causative.

    I would be discussing this with the school - if your difficult child faces legal action as a result of biting the teacher, then what legal action can you take, to recoup from whoever caused difficult child to react in this way?

    As for "the sub didn't need full disclosure" - what the...? "There's too many students and teachers around, they can't ALL have full disclosure..." Why the H not? Sorry, the answer her to the school is "Not my problem. That's YOUR problem - find a way! Because YOUR rear ends are on the line over this, you failed to inform, an incident happened, you are where the buck should be stopping."

    Do check this, to make sure it is accurate in your country, but I do know I could make this argument stick here in Australia.

  17. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    I wish this were true. but according to everything I've read, the BIP is just a reference. There is no law that states the school is responsible for behavior if this reference is not followed. I already know it wan't followed, nor was it shared with- the sub. If it was followed, this event wouldn't have happened.

    Ya know, I even sent an email to her morning teacher that difficult child had a bad night (meaning, keep a close eye on her cuz conditions are ripe for a problem)
  18. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Nancy, I believe the BIP is just as much a requirement as every other part of the IEP. Ask on the Special Education forum- they have some experts over there. I think the sd is trying to smooth things a little too much- ultimately, the highest person in the school is the principal and she should have measures in place to make sure that subs know about any specific requirement for a student. Of course, there are higher ups in the sd that can be contacted, too. It's much easier to address this now than later, after all is documented and punishments are handed out.
  19. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    hmmmm, ya know, the principal was just so flippant about all of it. He said the event happened way too quickly to follow the BIP. I'm still wondering about all the preventative measures and why she couldn't be told about them.

    All I can say is the principal is covering the school's :censored2: and he can say anything he wants. It's up to me and husband to call them on any mistakes. I am thinking I might postpone the IEP on friday so the advocate has enough time to look over her records.
  20. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I don't know the policies for other districts, but...subs are not told if a child has an IEP in place. Subs are not told if a child needs to be reminded to go and take his medications. Subs are not told about anything under the mental health category. BUT we know all about the kid with diabetes, and the peanut allergies, and the hemophiliac. Why is physical health considered to be more important that mental health?

    Subbing for 12 years gives me an advantage; at my favorite schools, they give me a heads-up about the issues I might encounter during the day. The most useless note I ever got from a teacher was "L is special! Yeah, thanks so much. What exactly do you mean by that? Does she run out of the classroom? Spin in circles and upend desks? Steal lunch boxes and eat the lunches? Hide under the reading table? Poop his pants when he gets angry? Stand in the middle of the classroom and scream? Yes, I'm speaking from personal experience here.

    In order to best serve the child, the sub needs to know what the teacher knows.