Once Again - All Mom's Fault (Just Shoot Me Now!)

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DaisyFace, Jan 25, 2012.

  1. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    DISASTROUS family counseling session tonight...

    I feel as though I have been beaten with a stick.

    husband and I told therapist that the therapy goals need to start to move away from "Family relationships" and "Listening to parents" and start to move toward goals that will help difficult child be successful in life. Okey-Dokey.

    Goal Number One is now difficult child needs to improve her grades in school. OK - good goal.

    And here comes the "beating up on Mom" part:

    I was informed that difficult child would not have Ds in school, and the school would not be passing her from class to class even though she doesn't do the work *IF* I had gone into the school when difficult child was in first grade and DEMANDED that my child be given stricter standards than all the other children. Didn't I know that by allowing the problems at school to get past that very first year I was teaching my child that school didn't matter and now her life is potentially ruined by these poor grades? That was really bad parenting!

    I tried to remind therapist that in first grade, the primary concern was that difficult child was bullying, hitting other kids and stealing. I had many, many MANY meetings with teachers and counselors trying to address THOSE issues. Grades in kindergarten and first grade took a back seat...

    But NO - I was wrong. I should have emphasized the GRADES.

    And more recently - it was WRONG of me to expect school personnel to keep my child from having sex at school....so the fact that THOSE school meetings were fruitless is to be expected. I SHOULD HAVE INSTEAD demanded that the school staff disciplined my child for talking during class. THAT is the issue I should have been focused on... Again - that was really poor parenting. I need to be more strict with my child.

    Just shoot me now!

    (Is it any wonder I want to quit this whole merry-go-round ?)
  2. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    OH MY G*D. REALLY? So if I had done all this stuff, too, Onyxx would be a good kid?

    Except... She was 8 when I met her...

    WTH is WRONG with these psychiatrists?!
  3. southermama3

    southermama3 New Member

    I'm setting here shaking my phone. Blaming u for breathing isn't going to fix her problems...if it was that easy u wouldn't be there! Your there for help not to be beat down. Being a parent to a child w these issues is hard enough. Ugh
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    So really why do we work with our kids after first grade at all? I guess no one should bother to get any evaluations, any therapy, any IEP's, because it is all determined in first grade?

    Well, psychiatrist/therapist....You, sir, are an idiot.

    Might as well shoot all of us I guess... hope you have lots of bullets to share.

    Ignore all he said, he is a waste of space and a waste of time. What is wrong with these psychiatric people?
  5. confuzzled

    confuzzled Member


    i had to read this about 5 times to get it to sink it this was coming out of a professionals mouth and not difficult children.

    wth does FIRST GRADE have to do with 10+ years later??

    get off the merry-go-round??? i think even i'd have jumped off it at full speed by this point.

    if you just want someone to give you permission, well, you've got my blessing.
  6. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    And you are no longer going to see that therapist.....rrrrriiiiigggghhhtttt?!? Might as well give me a bullet now, too!! Like we can control what the school does. HUH??? Our SD does not retain ANYONE! It seems to be an unwritten policy and a couple parents I know were told that they shouldn't worry about it until middle school....give their kids a chance to see if they can "catch up" .... and these were parents that were fighting to RETAIN their kids because they couldn't read worth a hoot! Grrrr

    I have a better idea.....shoot the therapist. LOL
  7. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    Wow. I have never heard such a huge amount of bull excrement come put of a so called professionals mouth. That is absurd. Are you tempted to offer to let then parent her?
  8. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    OH H***NO!

    Where is husband's responsibility in this? HOW is this not also HIS FAULT in the doctor's mind? WHY is it only YOUR fault????

    WHO gave this IDIOT a degree in anything but underwater basketweaving????

    This IDIOT needs to be yanked from being around your child and EVERY other human being.

    DO NOT GO BACK unless you are ready to rip her to shreds by challenging her every bit of stupidity masquerading as logic.

    Write a letter to the head of whatever runs this and have a FIT!!!! I have RARELY heard of such incredibly unprofessional behavior.

    Has this person ever SPOKEN to a kdg or first grade teacher or ANY teacher and tried to tell them to hold a child to higher standards than the other kids? THE TEACHER CANNOT DO THAT. NOTHING you say could have gotten ANY teacher to do that. EVER. PERIOD.

    I know parents who have tried. I have heard the teachers talk about them and how crazy they are - ALL MY LIFE. Some of the EARLIEST conversations I overheard between my parents and their teacher friends and my aunts/cousins/second whatevers (HUGE family, all teachers, nurses and journalists - big reunion at Christmas) were ALL about those "crazy" "idiotic" parental requests that either Joey was soooooo special and needed coddling or Johnny needed higher standards than everyone else for whatever reason. Teachers WILL NOT DO THIS.

    DO NOT buy into this koi. Just Say NO. This is the kind of soul destroying koolaide that gives therapy a really horrible name. I can GUARANDANGTEE you that if this therapist/whatever has kids they are SOOOOOOOO messed up that it is NOT funny. YOU have a difficult child because she has some real problem, even if it hasn't been diagnosis'd properly and treatment for it is just not easy or effective until they actually have to live with their decisions as adults. This therapist has difficult child kids or messed up kids because she DID THAT TO THEM. IF she has them.

    If she doesn't have kids? She has NO business even SPEAKING to you about how you should have parented difficult child.

    Wiz DID have higher standards. Mostly because the lowest IQ score he ever had was 139 and he was BORED and didn't read all the questions. IT is VERY much lower than his other IQ estimates. We enriched his education at home. We enriched it largely by exposing him to every book he could want that wasn't feeding violence and he was reading college level textbooks on many subjects and doing college level work in his 5th gr Special Education class. It was WHY he was in sp ed that year - they were willing to work with him on his level, that level. He KNEW school was important to us.

    He STILL came close to flunking many classes. He STILL insisted he would never need math and refused to take the classes he needed and was easily able to do the work in. He PAYS for it in college.

    This person is DELUSIONAL and her advice should be CRIMINAL. in my opinion SHE NEEDS TO GO TO A psychiatric hospital. NOT as a professional but as a delusional patient if she honestly believes that you should have ignored stealing, bullying, etc.... and focused solely on grades in those early years. Also, the school very likely would have taken some really harsh steps if you hadn't worked with them on those issues. Like pressing charges on your child. HOW would that help?

    I wonder what that professional would say if you asked her HOW it would help your daughter to have good grades but be a convicted thief? If you had not made it CLEAR that stealing was NOT acceptable early, by now she would be out stealing cars and identities and large sums of money and she would have a felony record and then? All those grades???? Would mean bupkus cause you can't get a job with straight A's and a felony conviction. It just doesn't happen that way.

    I am so sorry you had to listen to that garbage. This woman is nuts and needs some serious help. Just because she says something does NOT mean it is how the world works. What reaction do you think difficult child's early teachers would have had if you had ignored what difficult child was doing and told them that for YOUR precious darling the work should be 100% perfect or she should flunk, and that nothing else mattered? How long before the teachers had YOU committed to a psychiatric hospital for being completely out of touch with reality? That is one of the stupidest things I have EVER heard a therapist say.

    What is this person's degree/license? Has she suggested ANY books or reading material? I would be really tempted to find her boss and speak to her, or the group that licenses her and let them know that she is completely delusional.

    Oh I wish I lived closer and could be an "advocate" for you with this HAG. I am SO ANGRY on both your behalf and on difficult child's. There is NO WAY this IDIOT is going to do anything but HURT difficult child by telling her that NOTHING is her fault and if you had just blah blah blah then she would be FINE.
  9. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Thank you all for sharing my anger...

    Susie - I would LOVE it if you could come down here and be my advocate.

    I am just so angry that the county therapist seems determined to document that ALL of difficult children current problems can be blamed solely on parenting. I am suspicious that is their version of CYA. After all, there is no need to refer a child to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) if it is merely learned behaviors due to poor parenting. No liability there.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    DF -

    There's two sides to this... so I'll give you both.

    1) Myopia. The "professional" takes a look at "the" goal as though it is the "only" goal, and expects the rest of the world to move to make this goal happen - with NO sense of the big picture. This is still totally wrong, but I can see how someone with the wrong approach and/or not enough experience could fall into this part of the trap.

    2) Pasturization. As in "past" focus instead of present/future focus. It does NOT matter what went wrong YESTERDAY, much less last year. 10 years ago might as well have been 1000 years ago. It is all water under the bridge. Done. Gone. Over. Forever. There is absolutely nothing you or anyone else can do about it. So don't go there, you <unprintable>. Where are we now, where are we going, and how do we get there. THAT is what matters. The only value history has, is in helping us avoid past mistakes. So... if they need you to take a particular position with the school NOW, and that is different than in the past, well, there might be merit to that. But all you can control is this present moment.

    So STUFF all this HISTORY stuff, and get on with the real meat-and-potatoes of goal setting and realistic planning and supportive execution.
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    DF, I actually rather enjoy idiots like these. I ask them what books they can give me to "fix" the problems. Then I read the books and use their own book to rip them to shreds at the next appointment time. I learned this from watching my mom do it to a few teachers who "knew" that my HEALTH problems were because I was "coddled" and didn't run five miles a day or whatever. yeah, that cures ARTHRITIS for everyone. This is why you see so many little old people with walkers designed to help them run down the street. Heck, I practically can't drive a block without hitting three or four of them. Don't YOU have that problem?

    If you need permission to drop this nonsense, you have it. THis is just plain stupidity at its dullest.

    Actually, this is the type of therapist Wiz ADORED. To play with. He seriously messed a few of them up when they came up with koi like this. At one point the Children's we were going to gave a warning to therapists before they were allowed to work with him. Part of me thought I should feel sorry for them, but if you are so dumb that a 7 or 8 or 12 or 13yo can take your "wisdom" and make you a wreck with it, well, you deserve it. We were asked to not bring him to the University Counseling Center wehre the grad students were supervised as they treated patients. Some of the supervising therapists were concerned with the things he was talking the baby tdocs into agreeing to.

    Is it really really wrong that I found that funny? Or just a sign of how frustrated we were with trying to get help for such a brilliant young man from so many who did not have ANY sense - common or otherwise?

    Anyway, this person is an idjit. The agency that sent you to them is certainly CYA'ing to keep from having to agree to pay for Residential Treatment Center (RTC). They KNOW they are unable to really help anyone and they LIKE IT like that because it is cheap to not help anyone.

    Someday I want to write a book of all the stupid things tdocs have told people. Some of it is really funny once you get some distance from the moment. How ridiculous is it, how Saturday Night Live sketch like, to have a therapist tell someone that their child's bad grades NOW are because they didn't allow her to steal and bully and be held to a higher grading standard ten years ago? I can SEE John Belushi and Dan Akroyd and/or Dennis Miller and other Saturday Night Live alums doing this sketch, can't you?
  12. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    "Coulda, woulda, shoulda. So according to you [therapist], I let the side down. But back then, how could I know what to focus on? I didn't have a crystal ball. Question is, what do we do NOW? And can you guarantee me you would not have made the same [alleged] mistakes you believe I did, given the same set of experiences? Let's focus on now."

    Stuff yesterday. It can't be changed. Stuff the blaming. It gets absolutely nowhere except your back up. Look to the now and the future - let's put the kid back into Kindergarten and start over. YOU [therapist] talk to the teacher and say, "You must hold this kid to a higher standard and focus on grades." Now the kid is older, she should sail through Kindergarten and Grade 1.

    Start over. Seriously accept this as a workable solution, go to the school and let them know that the therapist said, so it must be the right way to go. Then when they stop laughing, ask them to talk to therapist to explain why this was never going to work, not even when she was in 1st grade for the first time...

    Where possible, always let other people fight amongst themselves. For example, I've just been hassling local officials over them closing the roads into our village over the holiday period. We live in a popular area, we're used to road closures for various (sensible) reasons. But these were not sensible. We had the park rangers telling the police to close the roads, the park rangers not telling their own staff that some people were still allowed through the roadblocks (namely, people who were coming to the village) and then when I talked to the police and later talked to the park rangers, each group blamed the other. I considered the evidence, made my analysis and chose sides. Where possible, side with the cops. So when the park rangers blamed the mess on police, I happily shared what they said with the police next time they said, "It was the park rangers."
    "Really?" I said. "They were adamant it was you guys. The bloke who I spoke to is [name supplied] and he said, [and I quoted verbatim]."
    Worked a treat. Sit back and watch the floorshow. I then took it further - brought in another government agency the park rangers were blaming. Again quoted what I had been told and asked for assistance in clearing through the morass of misinformation and blame. Haven't needed to talk to those guys again, but we could hear the *thwack* of steel-capped boots kicking read ends right over in our isolated part of the wilderness...

    Go for it. Seriously - see what would need to be done to send her back to first grade and start over, in order to remedy the current "parentally-caused behavioural problems".

    Also note where the blame is being put - the school is being blamed here too, for not holding this girl to a higher standard than the other kids. Identify just where the therapist's words could be seen by the school as criticism of them. Then share your analysis with the school, ask them for some sort of help (moral support, ammunition, whatever) in canning this idiot. Because a county therapist who thinks like this will be saying it to more than just you, which means other parents out there are hearing these things and blaming the schools too.

    Find the angle. Use it as leverage.

  13. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Sounds to me like you need Susie and Marg at your next meeting... <wink>
  14. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Ain't that the truth?

    Part of my problem is that I am not very quick on my feet. I often need a moment to think before responding...and when I am being attacked, I get very flustered...and that seems to lead the "attacker" to think that have have achieved something. "A-HA!" "Gotcha!" "You have nothing to say!"

    I know that I tried to do the very best that I could each and every time for my difficult child...

    but to have a "professional" explain that my past decisions have 'created' a difficult child by teaching her to be manipulative....by teaching her that school is not important...by teaching her that she can escalate at any time to get what she wants...??

    It's devastating to hear such a thing....and then I have no come-back - no response - no explanation.

    It's bad enough then guilt we feel wondering whether we are doing the right thing for our children -

    but now I am supposed to accept the blame for "creating" a difficult child???

    Thank goodness for this board! Without the sanity you bring to my world ? I don't know WHAT I would have done tonight...

    Thank you all for being here!
  15. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    This person dares to call himself a professional? Professional what?
  16. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    HaoZi, this person is a professional idiot. Probably got kicked out of her village for being too good at the job, so she took this one.

    Marg, I LOVE YOUR MIND. You have the PERFECT way to handle this.


    Write it all down and go to the school. Dr. Idiot says that difficult child should have been held to a higher academic standard in grades kdg and 1. This is the source of ALL of her problems. To solve this problem that has happened because the school did not do this, difficult child MUST IMMEDIATELY be put back into kdg so that she can do her work to the higher academic standard than other children that she should have been held to back then. When she has completed that, she must go through each year, redoing it ALL to that higher standard.

    I know this is a big task, but Dr. Idiot says it is the ONLY way to help difficult child. Feel free to contact Dr. Idiot to confirm this. I am willing, will you help me help my child??

    Then watch the look on their faces and wait for Dr. Idiot to start backpedaling.

    "But Dr. Idiot, YOU SAID that it was not being held back, not being held to that higher standard in kdg and first grade that caused this. That means we can FIX it by redoing those years and insisting on that higher standard now. I am ONLY trying to cooperate, to do the BEST THING for my child as recommended by you and Agency CYA that sent us to you and pays your bills. I have notified Agency CYA about how BLESSED we feel to FINALLY have clear directions for how to FIX this problem!"

    And SMILE when you tell Dr. Idiot that. LAUGH inside because, honestly, this was the STUPIDEST thing Dr. Idiot could have said and now? EVERYONE will know it. Be SURE to tell the caseworker about it. Heck, send a THANK YOU to the agency head for FINALLY finding a SOLUTION - sending your 16yo back to kdg to do it all over again. I am SURE the school district will want Agency to cover the bills for the extra years it will take to redo her entire education, aren't you? I bet that will cost a LOT more than Residential Treatment Center (RTC) would.
  17. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    I am not quite going to do this...


    I am suddenly feeling that it is extremely important that a representative from the school district attend our next team meeting. After all, if my child needs to be held to a higher standard to achieve the new therapy goals - then the SD needs to be involved to discuss the new strategy. (And the state agency prides themselves on coordinating representatives from all parties involved so it should be relatively easy to force the school to attend.) So that will be something to look forward to...

    Also - I think I need to clarify a little bit. doctor did not just announce that problems were caused in 1st Grade out of the blue....she was trying to make the point that I have been an in-effective parent all along. And that if I had nipped these small behaviors in the bud when difficult child was little - we wouldn't be here now. And that if I had placed more emphasis on academics...then difficult child would never have escalated to bullying, hitting, stealing and all the other difficult child stuff...

    This, of course, is a completely ridiculous argument. difficult child was a difficult child from the time she was a baby....so at what point would a focus on academics have prevented anything? (Which is how we got to talking about school issues in K and 1st...)

    I know that I have my priorities straight. I know that violence and safety issues need to be addressed FIRST. Criminal behaviors (like stealing) come second. Whether a child completes their homework is further down the list.

    The idea that difficult child not being required to complete schoolwork somehow led to violence and criminal behavior is just ridiculous.

    Yet - here we are.

    So I have been tasked (by the therapist) to create severe consequences at home for difficult children current poor grades...AND make sure teachers are imposing equally severe consequences at school (specifically - difficult child must be reprimanded each time she talks during class time)...with the idea that these "severe consequences" will suddenly spur difficult child toward being more focused during class time and becoming an A and B student.

    Oh yes - we will certainly disucss this at the team meeting...

  18. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Susie, you think the way I do. I like it. Dirty but honest.

    DaisyFace, don't feel too self-conscious about your need to pause. If the other person keeps talking and says thinks like "gotcha," then simply sat, "Shut up, I am giving your words the consideration you feel they are worth." take a leaf out of Judge Judy's book when she's trying to read through papers and one or other of the people before her tries to keep talking.

    If the other party really does act like they've "gotcha" then make it clear - you are seriously pondering and need to be given time to draw your own considered conclusion. This cannot be rushed, your child's welfare is at stake. You're not trying to find a loophole mentally; no, you're trying to really consider what you have just been told, in light of your own experiences.

    Perfectly legitimate.

    Never allow yourself to be flustered. If you have to, take yourself out of the room and say, "You have given me something to consider. I need a little time apart to give it the consideration it requires."

    It also helps to take notes, because over time you learn the hidden language - "with all due respect..." generally means "I have absolutely no respect for you and I'm about to show you how disrespectful I can be."

    And so on.

    As you learn to recognise the language, you can then learn to use it yourself. "I will give it my due consideration" generally means "I will forget everything as soon as you walk out that door."
    "Of course we have your child's best welfare at heart, but we also have to consider the needs of the other students and the staff" really means "Your child is a PITA and so are you; we want you both gone."

    Over time you learn to fight back with their own weapons.

  19. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Great, great. OK. I can see it now, you're wrong because you can't MAKE the teachers have severe consequences for poor grades.

    Oh, and... Consequences don't work too well on our difficult children... UGH!!!
  20. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    Holy cow!! And this person calls herself a professional?

    You know, I could see the therapist's point - if you had bothered to do NOTHING for her all along the way and just now decided that her gfgness needs to be addressed and corrected. But you've been trying since she was young to get her problems dealt with. You were not the mom with her head in the sand, refusing to admit that something was going on. You faced this head on and have been hands on about it from the beginning. This is not your fault and it's not the result of poor parenting. This therapist has no clue how to counsel and true difficult child.

    When difficult child was in first grade I went to the elementary school begging for help. The social worker that I saw basically told me the same thing. It was my fault. I needed to learn how to discipline him. That was NOT the problem and everyone else who we've seen since then agrees.

    Don't let this moron bring you down. Gather your thoughts and let her know why she's the one who is wrong here.