Operation without anesthesia - Ough

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Rotsne, Jan 26, 2009.

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  1. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    I happen to see the show about your second president - Adams and it was really good. However, it did hurt when the daughter was put through a mastectomy without anesthesia. While the scene wasn't exactly correct because they used a chair instead of a bed, I almost felt like changing to another channel. I found an article about the operation (link).

    It was many years ago. There was no options back then, but unfortunately people have to endure such a torment even today. Just last week a Danish court sentenced a mother to two years in prison because she put her daughter thrugh painful surgery without anesthesia and without reason (link)

    I very seldom goes to the dentist as it is common for the working class and when I do I insist having it done without pain.

    I cannot image to endure such a pain the girl and the daughter of the president went through. It hurts even when I think of it.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Is there a point to this other than to be offensive? Remember, we're not supposed to post political stuff here and in my opinion this is trying to tell us how bad a certain religion is. Your motives for posting here are in my opinion very suspicious. Genital mutilation (which I think is the point here) is political and religious.
    I think I'm done reading your posts forever. This is vile.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009
  3. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    Huh? I guess I missed the point.
    I remember reading a biography abouat President Adams and his daughter's mastectomy and I found it very upsetting just to read about. It made me realize how lucky we are to be living in this place and time.
    As far as genital mutilation goes, it is a little bit of a stretch to consider it political or religious. It is a barbaric procedure conducted by illiterate, viscious people who either should know better or who should be taught better. I am about as politically correct as they come but justifying mutilation and torture as political and religious is abhorent. By that rule you could also defend the Spanish Inquisition. Some things are wrong no matter what justification you use. I am tired of people using "religion" and "politics" to defend inhumane behavior. Some things are just WRONG.
  4. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    I saw a TV-serie (which have won rewards) and remembered my own fear of dentist of doctors (My father died from heart problems because the hospital where he was treated was too far away from Copenhagen, so it was too late when they finaly got the paperwork done. They scared him to death). That's it!

    As far as genical mutilation it would be forbidden in a couple of years even for males if the parliament get finished with their newest proposal (We are not the only country outlawing it. Several countries are working on laws affecting both genders). It would be totally forbidden unless there is a medical reason for it. It has nothing to do with religion. It has something to do with the increased risk of infection.
  5. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    I didn't see anything political or religious in the OP either.

    I thought it was just a commentary on Adams' daughter's surgery and what a horror it is. Perhaps I've missed something.

    Years ago I did a research paper on genital mutilation, specifically in parts of Africa and Asia, and it was horrifying. I don't see how this post about breast surgery is tied in with that. Wasn't Adams' daughter's surgery related to cancers?

    In any event, I don't think it's political or religious to bring awareness about such topics anyway. Nor is it offensive, in my opinion. Just sayin'.
  6. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Well I don't find either topic particularily offensive.

    As far as the mastectomy, I am so very grateful medical science has come as far as it has and people do not have to endure surgery without anethestic. Often I think our ancestors were way stronger than we are.....I know I couldn't have done it.

    As for the gential mutilation.....I find it horrifying. But I do understand it's a cultural difference born out of ignorance. And the only way to hope to change the practice is thru education. As far as male circumcision goes......Well, you see enough 35 yr old males in hospital to have it done due to chronic infections and the agony they go thru.....and you do see the medical justification behind having it done at birth. But more gentler/less painful methods have been developed for the procedure. Grandson Darrin didn't even whimper when his was done.

    But I don't see how either subject is political??

    Oh, and I'm sitting here stewing over calling a dentist. I have a horrendous fear of dentists. And I am in desperate need. Wish I could say the fear was irrational, but it isn't. Had a bad experience where a dentist tried to remove a wisdom tooth that had it's roots wrapped around the jaw bone.......Anethetics didn't do a thing for the pain, even though he tried. (he never did get the tooth out either, someone else did yrs later)

    So now I'll probably find myself with upper dentures thanks to this horrid fear of dentist. Lovely. And still I'm having trouble calling. :( So I know where you're coming from on that one, Rotnse.

  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, it IS a religious/cultural issue. Jewish males are circumcized. I don't consider it genital mutilation. The men function just fine. They have been functinoning fine since the beginning of time. I disagree with your country not allowing this procedure. It is not the same as female genital mutilation. I am frankly glad that our government isn't involved in every facet of our lives, and I'm glad I live here. I once had a positive few of Denmark. Now--I wouldn't want to live there. I think your Parliment is too intrusive in the lives of it's citizens. Living in the US, we are not used to the government sticking it's nose into all of our personal decisions.
    Clearly, this post is a slap in the face to Jews, and I don't think we should talk about it here. Inevitably, these types of posts turn political or anti-religious (and not allowing circumcision IS anti-Jewish). Since that is part of my heritage, I do take offense. My own boys were not circumcised, but if Jews choose to do so, it does not harm the men. And it is none of the government's business. I understand that Denmark is almost all atheist, but, thank God (no pun intended) that is not the case here, and there are certain rituals that go with our various religions (female mutilation I don't agree with), however circumcision I do. Period. I'd better get out of here now...lol. This is not such an innocent post. Practicing Jews on the board probably won't post with me because they want to be polite, but I can't imagine that they wouldn't be offended lumping female genital mutilation in with circumcision. So I hope we don't see any more comparisons of that here as we are of all religious creeds.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009
  8. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    I saw a program a while back on Chinese Acupuncture and they did a serious operation only using the needles. And although the patient said she didn't feel a thing, I think I would want a trial run to make sure I couldn't feel it.

    I can't imagine anything done without some kind of anesthia - I am the kind of person who wants to be put under even if they are dealing with a hangnail LOL

    Makes you glad you are living in modern times

  9. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I'm missing the religious/political ties here, too, but that's ok.

    I live in an ancient house and feel a connection to the people who built it. The woman, rest her soul, survived a hysterectomy in 1920, when she was 16 years old. Since they had no children during the great depression and they both worked outside the home, they had more than the average farm family, and offered it generously to those in need. They had a hand in helping feed, clothe, and raise many, many children in that home, despite not having any of their own.

    I often think of the pain that poor woman endured, both the physical pain of the surgery itself and the emotional pain it caused for years afterwards, and the strength it took for her to not only survive it, but rise above it, and create something meaningful for so many children who really needed her thru the years.
  10. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    MWM - It was female genital mutilation and it is illegal here in the US. It was not about male circumcision and didn't even hint at that.
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    He said male "mutilation" was banned in Denmark. Uh, ok. Circumcision is NOT mutilation. Here is the part of the post with his bolded words as if to say "circumcision is mutilation." I strongly disagree and find the comparison both ridiculous and bigoted. Maybe it bothers me because of the Jews in my family who hardly feel they were mutilated.

    his post:
    As far as genical mutilation it would be forbidden in a couple of years even for males if the parliament get finished with their newest proposal.

    But then this is a country that wants everyone to be "the same. So a Jewish ritual would not fit in as it is different."
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009
  12. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    MWM, I would highly suggest that you go to your User CP in the upper left hand corner. Then go to edit ignore list and place Rotsne's name in there.
  13. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Well for those of you considering Methadone for pain management - allow me to shed some light.

    When DF had his back surgery? They botched it. He was in the first operation for 18 hours. The next 4 were due to MRSA as a result of hospital staff NOT keeping up with cleaning wounds (they admit it).

    So when DF got the MRSA he was on IV antibiotics for 3 months - 2x a day. (it was very bad). It also rotted his teeth roots and eventually the only choice was to have them all pulled.

    WHEN YOU TAKE METHADONE for pain? And you want /need surgery? You can NOT have a local anesthesia. You must be strapped down and be in an operating room at a hospital. The methadone blocks the neural receptors and thus can make you violent when you are given a gas unless it's in a restricted operating environment. We were told a local does little more than the Methadone.

    Well....gosh no one told us this and we wasted a day getting up at 3 AM to be at the dentist 100 miles away only to have the dentist have a pantytwist of a fit when he read the chart and it said TAKES METHADONE. So we had to get estimates for hospital surgical removal of 27 teeth. OMG - it was obscene. In the $15,000.00 price range.

    So DF opted to go it in a chair without ANY anesthesia. He said the pain of his teeth vs. having them jerked out of his head without a local was not a question - he sat down, the doctor was a butcher and a jerk - and they pulled all his teeth a year ago without ANY pain medications.

    I think someone slipped him a valium for nerves because they felt bad for him.

    I also had a tooth pulled like that when I was pregnant with my son and I've had to stitch my own fingers up when I was beyond poor.

    I can not imagine having a mastectomy done without any type of pain medications or gas - I've often wondered when you pass out from pain or fear and someone does something like surgery - if you can feel it then or just block it out.
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Thanks! :) I wasn't sure how to use the function. I was trying the right side.
    I do feel this is an offensive post (but maybe you have to be partly Jewish to see it), and hereafter I won't be reading his posts at all.
    Thanks for telling me it's the LEFT side. Duh!!!
  15. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    I found the article about John Adams' daughter horrifying, but fascinating. It's amazing to see how far medicine has come and what people have had to endure just to survive.

    Plus, Wynter has been studying the Revolutionary War in school and this fits in with the time period.
  16. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    I believe that the law they have suggested (link) should leave room for people who wants to choose for themselves what they want. However I understand that some are forced by family to follow certain traditions. Still I find that every person should have a free to choose once they are adults, because we have a police and court system to protect people.

    It is politics and I rather would stay from it. I am just happy that I live in 2009 where I can get anesthesia for whatever treatment, I choose to take.
    Lasted edited by : Jan 26, 2009
  17. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    I'm not sure why you are putting these on this site. This is completely irrelevant to this site. This site is for parents with children who have learning/mental or other disorders. It is not meant for scathing articles demeaning Americans or Danes. This particular forum is for discussions that are neither political nor religious and though you stated you want to stay away from it, you certainly did not.

    I suggest you find something more relevant to post. You are just building fires where they needn't be.

    Anyone wishing to debate Rotsne on this, please refrain from taking the bait anymore.
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think he is here to stir the pot with Americans--their traditions and culture. And I think it is deliberate. Why else would somebody from Denmark post these articles here that have nothing to do with the spirit of the site? This is a SUPPORT board and we rarely talk any sort of politics. Even during the election we were cautious and respectful of others that may not agree with our views.

    I'm sure there are Danish sites for both children's problems AND politics. I find this post very upsetting, but I did use the ignore function. I will continue to do so with this poster. Sadly, he is the first poster I've ever needed to "ignore." But I'm glad I can. 'Nuff said. Off the soap box.

    Thanks for speaking up about these posts.
  19. Estherfromjerusalem

    Estherfromjerusalem Well-Known Member

    I am gobsmacked, and using all my self-control. I will not relate to the circumcision subject.

    However, I did find the article about the mastectomy without anesthesia very very interesting, but very gory and upsetting. And yes, I am truly grateful to have been born in these modern times when pain control is possible and within reach for me when I need it. Having undergone several surgeries, I cannot imagine undergoing it without being completely unconscious. It's bad enough waking up after surgery, even with the painkillers.

    Loth -- thank you for editing and moderating.

    Love, Esther
  20. Suz

    Suz (the future) MRS. GERE


    Rotsne, I expect there are many other websites out there that will welcome your inflammatory posts. But not this one.

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