People should mind their own business...


Well-Known Member
Very long story short(er). L's dad and I were never married and never lived together. He is an attorney and married the quadriplegic Deputy DA of the Child Welfare Division in our county two weeks before our custody hearing. They became good friends with the Judge, who heard visitation and other matters 5 times altogether, and guess who always got what they wanted? It was hell.

husband and I married when L was almost 3. When I was 7 months pregnant with M, StepMonster brought L to her personal friend and pediatrician where L allegedly told the pediatrician in SM's presence that I had molested her. L never made the allegation again outside of that room, but guess who was found "more likely than not to have molested L" in family court? I had to go for therapy for years, and had to have supervised visits with L for two years before I could be alone in a room with her. It's only through ignoring that it happened that I can even get on with my life.

Fast forward 12 years. L's dad is divorced from SM, who has since passed away, and has ignored L for years. (husband and I had him over for dinner and offered the olive branch. He said "I did what I had to and I will never apologize. Then ends justified the means.") She is 15 years old, promiscuous and won't go to school. He wants her to live with us. NO WAY! He's undermined our authority at every turn and she hates us. He never made her do anything she doesn't want to, and has used "making you move in with your mom if you don't straighten up" as a threat for years. He puts her in a group home 500 miles away for 9 months. She runs away, misbehaves, and gets mad at me because I won't break her out. My sister gets in a fight with me about my parent's 50th wedding anniversary, and she and my brother start writing letters to L in the group home about how awful I am to my parents. Group home mom decides that between the hateful letters from my family and L's running off and not obeying rules, she is grounded from seeing anyone other than me or her dad. I pass the limitations along to my parents without the underlying BS.

Group home mom brings her to town while doing errands, and tells her that she is to see me while she is here. L calls my parents instead, and they come get her, promising the group home mom that they will bring L to see me. They don't. They bring her to my angry sister. Everyone tells L that they all understand why she hates me. :mad: No one tells me, I'm clueless that she was even in town. My mom calls the next day and asks if they can go out of town to visit L. I pass along the group home mom's directive that they can not. They call L's dad and ask if they can visit her. He says yes, but they should not tell me because I would be mad. Huh? It's not my idea that L's where she's at or has rules about who can see her. My dad makes sure my best friend knows about it and tells me about it the next day. Not only was I angry that they went behind my back, I felt like a fool! I wasn't the one calling the shots and suddenly I'm the bad guy. L's dad and the group home mother refuse to "get involved". Get involved? It's all about them and I'm an innocent bystander taking all the heat!

Fast forward to this week. L has found M through his Myspace page. She tells her dad. He offers to take them out to dinner to help facilitate a reunion between them. Never mind that L and M always hated each other, and L bad mouthed him all through school. L told me about this, and I told her I would like it if she and M saw each other and built a relationship, but her dad needed to stay out of it. We are out to dinnner and see L's dad last night. He sits with us at our table, talking about how important he is. I bring up M, and he practically runs from the table.

I sent he and L this e-mail today:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> L~

husband and I saw your Dad and (your stepsister) at Gino’s last night. SS had the puppy with her. It is very cute.

Your Dad walked me back to our table and sat to chat. I tried to quietly talk to him about my conversation with you the other day that you Dad wanted to buy the two of you dinner to “help repair your relationship” with M. As I told you then, I would be very unhappy about that. This is something that husband and I have talked about and were going to discuss with your Dad in any case. He excused himself from the table before we could make any sort of point. husband and I wrote this note together after we got home, and edited it together this morning. We are carbon copying your Dad because we don’t want anyone to misunderstand what we are saying.

We are both happy that you want to see if there is a possibility of a relationship between you and M. We miss M and we worry about him every day. Things weren’t very good between us for a number of years before he left, but he will always be our son, and we will always love him and want him to be happy. The involvement of outsiders in this situation has only served to make matters worse over the past few years, and while we recognize your relationship with M, your Dad has no place in this matter.

We do not want your Dad involved in repairing your relationship with M. If your Dad wants to help facilitate a reunion with dinner, he can pay for dinner for the two of you but he is not a member of our family and should not insert himself there. M is and always has been a mooch. The relationship that you would build with your M through your Dad’s involvement would be about getting things from your Dad, not his relationship with you. There are other reasons as well, the not the least of which is that your Dad didn't consult us, and it just plain is not your Dad’s place.

You need to understand in no uncertain terms that we’ll be angry with him and angrier with you if your Dad gets involved in this situation. This is nothing compared to how angry we will be if your Dad gets involved and you agree to not tell us or to lie to us about it “so Mom won’t get mad.” You should be aware that if this happens again it will be the relationship between you and I that will to be repaired. I don't ever want to hear that from either of you again.

husband and I are grown people who as a general rule make very good decisions regarding our lives and our children, given the chance. We have not made any outrageous blunders and deserve the respect any parent does concerning their relationship with their children. Inserting himself into other people’s parenting is not done under any circumstances whether the child is 11 or 21.

Whatever your Dad’s motivations are at this point, he needs to walk away. He has had his fingers in most every bit of unhappiness in my adult life. He made the time surrounding M’s birth and several years after that a hell for M and for us and I don’t know that any of us will ever fully recover from that. All we can do is move on and ignore it, but it did happen and it we will never be able to forget it. It is source of great pain for all of us. Your Dad’s butting in without consulting me was directly responsible for the falling out between my family and me. That situation added a great deal of strain to our already tenuous relationship with M. If he really wants to facilitate a happy reunion in this family he could start there and the rest would naturally follow. But then that would be much messier than buying M dinner. The hard stuff usually is. Unfortunately, when I asked him to help repair that relationship he refused. He doesn’t now get to step in with a confused, angry kid and buy his way into being the hero.
M is our son. Your relationship with M has been peripheral, at best. It would make us very happy if you were to build your own relationship with him. Your Dad needs to stay out of it. If he has already made arrangements for you to get together with him and M, he needs to step off. If it has already happened he needs to tell us about it and help us to make it right.

We love you, but you need to understand that this will not ever be ok. I’m not sure why your Dad doesn’t get it, it's pretty basic.



L writes back:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought I made it pretty clear that it was an offer that was never taken up on. My dad has good intentions. I know that it is a difficult and painful situation with M, and I understand how you feel about my dad’s offer; however he is my father and as I said his intentions were good. You shouldn’t be so hard on him.

Love, L</div></div>

I wrote back:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not being hard on him. I'm asserting my place as M's mom, and trying to keep your dad from making another mistake involving me. If your dad has good intentions, there are ways that he help that would include input from husband and I. The relationship he needs to repair is his relationship with me. That is where all of the recovery for everyone in this family starts.

She wrote back <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> OK :smile:</div></div>

Gawd life :censored2: sometimes! How can someone go through 16 years with an apology on the table and not once ever take credit for or apologize for their role in an ugly situation?


New Member
Wow, I think I'm going to be sick now.


I read the above and all the while thinking about our situation. About right now, that all of us are under the same roof. Right now I have control over who my kids see, who they speak to, etc. Then it hit me, one day, one day my daughter, my husband's and I only biological child together, could sit down with my difficult children bio mom. They could talk, be friendly, she could ask for advice from this woman, she could get drugs from this woman. OMG, I've never thought of it. I've worried about my difficult children and some about my easy child boys, but then I remember they hate her, so that won't happen. But my daughter knows nothing of this woman. She has no ill feelings towards her. If difficult children find her someday, maybe they'll introduce bio mom to her.

I'm physically ill right now just pondering this. I don't know how you do it. I wouldn't want M anywhere near this guy either. Our life has been hell for more than 4 years now because of this woman and one day, she could be doing what he is doing. I'm sick.
I never quite knew your full story, just bits and pieces.

I don't even know what to say. I wish I had some sort of comfort to offer.



New Member
I hope it is okay to ask you to PM me for info on a NCM network I belong to.

I'm sorry you and your family have gone through such tragic events like you described. I am a NCM too I know the pain associated with it... while I don't share the same circumstances that you have I know how crapy the situations can be.

My ex too refuses to take responsibility or apologize for all his actions, I apologized for my part in hopes that we could all move on, sadly he took that to move on, but wouldn't give me the same. He lies and he is a narcissist and wonders why our daughter has so many problems (and she is only 10). What a jerk!


(the future) MRS. GERE
Witz, I don't think you are asking for opinions but I've known you long enough that I'm going to speak anyway :wink:.

Sad to say, but both kids are adults now and I think you are going to have to step back and let them do what they are going to do without your input. It's been a tough lesson for me to learn with Rob. He really doesn't care what my opinion is; it has no value to him. So I have to stifle my opinions and my ego and let him do what he's gonna do. It is the same with your kids.

The good news is that when we step back and let them do their thing, they can't blame us! :grin:

I'm sorry for your pain.



Well-Known Member
Agreed, Suz. That's why I made sure that bio-idiot understands where I stand by sending the e-mail to him as well. You see, when I say bio-idiot, I really do mean that he's an idiot. :wink: He left his wife and my daughter and her half sister in November one year. No one told me until L let it slip on President's day weekend the next year. As you would expect, within a week I filed for custody as he had abandoned L. He and his wife (both attorneys) and their friend the pediatrician signed sworn petitions and testified under oath in the county we live in that he left the week of president's day, and had made no decisions as to the continuation of the marriage. But, he and the filed sworn and signed divorce papers in the neighboring county that he left the marriage home in November, as I had petitioned when I asked for custody. He knows I know this. He's been disciplined by the bar twice already. No one gets disciplined by the bar. He could lose his license to practice law. I could sue and I would win. He knows I have the upper hand. But L is old enough to hear why I would object to her dad's baloney, considering she knows the basics of the story. She needs to know that you can't go around destroying someone's family and then think you are going to be the hero and fix it by buying dinner.

Kali, it took me about 20 minutes to figure out what an NCM was. :wink: I thank you for extending the offer. My kids are so old I don't know that I would even qualify any more. Also, to think about those things makes me so angry and sad that I try to not do that. I can't live in that place in my head. I'm sorry that your ex doesn't care enough about your daughter to try to make amends with you. It just floors me that people are so small that they can't see how freeing it is to admit your mistakes and ask for forgiveness.

Marcie Mac

Just Plain Ole Tired
Witz, I read something a long time ago that relationships that don't end peacefully - never end - truer words were never written.

Am sorry that it still upsets you after all of this time the drama that went on years ago. I don't think its much a matter of forgiving or forgetting, just one of letting it go and not having the urge to still want to defend yourself or your position- your X is never ever going to "get it" (believe me, most X's never do - mine is still stuck on stupid after all of these years-I wish I had a dime for everytime I tell him that his son is an alcoholic, and the last thing he needs is a beer - but every dang time he comes over to the house, he makes a stop at Trader Joe's - to him its some weird bonding thing tossing back a few with his boys)

A horses rear end will always be a horses rear end. Take comfort in your knowing the truth.

I know you didn't ask for opinions :smile: but I am with Suz since I have "known" you for a while LOL - step back and not get into whether or not you like the idea of asking your son and the daughter from both of you to dinner or X inserting his two cents worth into your son and daughters relationship. I feel bad it makes you nuts. He is not going to give you the respect you deserve and should have.

Witz, sorry to see that your ex is still creating havoc in your life. I agree that there may not be much you can do, given your ex's history of manipulation and interfering. Step back and let them sort themselves out, you've had plenty of drama to deal with with both M & L and they are adults, they can't hold you resposible for whatever they decide to do. I agree that your ex shouldn't be interfering, but after all these years, he doesn't seem to be willing to change....sorry for your pain


Well-Known Member
Hey, Teri! Where have you been? I still have your old e-mail, send me a note so I will know how to reach you!


call 911
I don't know what more could be said....but I do relate more than I've ever said.

Thanks for sharing. I feel sorry for your husband like I do my DF when crap like this comes up and I wonder some times while I watch him sleep...when is he going to get fed up with my past so much that he just leaves? He'd have a right to.

Hug your husband...he's really one in a million.