Picking up wee from school yet again.

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
Hi Shari-
Has he been suspended for 10 days?

Today is day 10. Judging from incidents at the last IEP meeting, tho, they don't want a manifestation hearing.

If they see that Wee is getting frustrated....they stop doing what is frustrating him and alter the activity or assignment. And yes..he can do something else..such as taking a walk or going into the gym and throwing a few baskets...

Exactly. And expecting him to sit and cool off is bogus, to me. And exactly why he needs 1 person with him instead of popping in and out all day long. If Malory comes after him 4 times in the morning before I leave, no one else knows that... and if someone tells him he's stupid on the playground, and then he doesn't get picked for a game in gym, and then explodes, its not til after the fact that everyone knows the whole story of what happened thru the day leading up to it...

That morning schedule is ridiculous! Way too many transitions for wee. I am shocked at all his moving around, changing teachers, handing off to paras, and the fact that you have to go in. He should be met at the front door by his para, period! You should not have to transition him into the day - that would be the job of the para. The para should not be pulled when wee is in Occupational Therapist (OT) or Special Education - the para should be there with wee the entire day. That way you have someone consistant who knows, from one minute to the next, what wee has been through or might be feeling.

My thoughts exactly. But, again, they "can't" assign him one para all day long, becuase when that para isn't needed, she is "wasting her time" staing with Wee...and the am para does bus duty at another building, so she doesn't arrive til 8:10 or so...

So have you seen as many meltdowns in the Special Education room or Occupational Therapist (OT) as you have seen in the eary morning, recess time, when he's mainstreamed?

No. If he makes it to specials, we rarely have problems after that.

If wee needs total resource with the exception of specials, so be it. If they can't provide these services at his current school, then an another school within the district will be the plan.

I agree. School does not because they "can't provide it, they don't have staff" (same excuse for para). Ps - most para's have no training. They aren't included in the IEP nor have they ever seen the thing. Or the full BIP.

You know Shari, this is really, really sad to me. I've followed wee's situation for a few months now and the Valentines really got me. He's not able to experience the stuff a typical kid can, although I think he is totally able to, just not being given the services and supports he needs to succeed.

It makes me sad that he worked on his Valentines and can't be there to put them in his classmates bags......I went through this with difficult child too. He would be excited about something happening at school that was out of the normal 3Rs - then BOOM, meltdown or rage, removal or suspension. It's no way for a young one to get what they need to move forward.

Realizing his motor planning problems on MOnday and this have been a huge blow to me this week, too. I rarely cry. I have all week this week.

You may also want to go on the school districts website and look up all the elememtary schools in your district. Go to their respective websites and look into the Special Education services. They will have staff listed and such. difficult child may need to attend a school that has resource all day.

This is the only school in district. And SpEd Teacher is the autism consultant for the entire district, so she's required in all buildings.

From an outside observer's perspective, it seems that Wee has very, very little wiggle room for being able to hold it together: a particular student in his class makes him mad, you keeping him home because sped teacher is gone and he can't cope, mainstream staff is gone and he can't cope, no one chooses him in gym class so he loses it/runs out/hits principal, staff isn't handling him like you would at home to keep him from becoming agitated, teacher corrects him in the lunch line and he overreacts, busy principal who is responsible for running the entire school invades his personal space to keep him safe and from destroying property and Wee loses it…etc…etc…etc. Shari, I know from a parent's perspective how desperately you want everyone who comes into contact with him to be able to handle him, and how much you hope that what he encounters at school won't trip the trigger so that he can mature. But I agree with Sharon that expecting all of those who deal with Wee to constantly run interference for him and to respond in the exact right way not to tick him off isn't going to happen—to some degree, yes, it's reasonable, but it's an elementary school, not a highly controlled therapeutic setting and they are in no way equipped for the extremes. I have to wonder if continuing to send him to a school that isn't equipped staff-wise or environment-wise to provide the higher level of supports that he seems to need in order to remain stable and able to participate in school is really in his best interest. It doesn't seem fair to Wee to continue to send him back day after day to a setting where he's experienced so little sustained success in holding it together, and that likely doesn't have the resources to deal with his needs.

Actually, Wee works really hard TO hold it together, and it is only when things pile up that he loses it. He was doing GREAT til we threw massive schedule changes at him back in November. Even handling Malory, who was actively targeting him daily. The schedule changes were the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, And its never been "normal" since.

And I don't think they've done all they can do. It was recommended right off the bat that he have a 1:1 with him all day. That has never been provided...he's got someone responsible for watching him at all times, but its not one person. Even tho there's now "only 2 paras", he flits in and out between 9 different "over-seers" each day. How are they to know where Wee's at to be able to help him?

I agree its not fair to keep sending him. Its the only school in the district and they are requred by law to educate him. Its a catch 22.

I want to send him, say "see you at 3" and turn off the phone. Make them deal with him and figure it out...either get the staff in place to deal, or decide to send him somewhere else. But, remember, this is the school who's idea of "dealing with him" for the entire last semester last year was to stick him in a 6x10 concrete supply closet 3 or 4 times a day....so, what does it continue to do to Wee to allow that to happen more?

I will gladly move if someone cal tell me where to go that CAN do what he needs. I'll quit my job and move and work at a gas station. I don't care.


Personally I think that the principal did exactly the right thing in that situation. He had a student with a long history of being explosive and impulsive who was in his office banging a chair hard against the window. If he hadn't removed the chair immediately and Wee had instead broken through that window then he likely would have been faced with major safety and liability issues instead. In that situation I'm not going to stop and think what might happen if I invade this student's personal space. I'd act.

Wee wasn't hitting anything with a chair. He was sitting in a chair banging his head and fists on the wall and the window beside the chair. Had he been using a chair, yes, I would agree with you. He wasn't. If they are truly concerned a 7 year old can put his fist thru the tempered glass of the brand new school building, well...that's another issue...but I don't think its unreasonable to expect this principal, who has willingly offered to attempt to be a "safe place" for Wee, to at least offer an alternative activity before going directly to physical, which everyone KNOWS how that will end.

A regular elementary school needs to provide a reasonable amount of services, but the truth is they can only do so much for one student.

I agree.


He has since returned to "normal"...that was a week from hel*, not typical with him.


If you've done what you reasonably can as a parent in terms of not leaving any stone unturned assessment-wise, therapy and medications,

I'm sure there's more I can do, but I don't know what it is or how to pay for it.

and if they've done what they reasonably can under their roof,

Have they? With no true full-time para assigned? And a BIP that's routinely not followed (first action when Wee gets agitated is offer alternative activity....anyone see an alternative activity besides sitting in a chair? He went to the principal's office becuase the principal wants to be that go-to person. Great. But that would mean I'd expect him to follow what's outlined in the plan.) The SpEd teacher routinely gets upset wth others who should KNOW the plan not following it. Worksheets and writing tasks were to be removed from his curriculum per the speech language pathologist who diagnosed his dyslexia - asking him to do things he's not yet capable of doiing adds to his frustration - yet he brings home worksheets about every night. They played a SPELLING game in gym...with a dyslexic ED kid with a history of explosiveness who has preK academic skills...

But the SpEd teacher thinks they've just made amazing progress this year, since he didn't have problems til December...

I don't expect them to be perfect...but I do expect them to realize "you know, that was a bad idea..." and not just punish Wee for it by further removing him from school. Where's the adults' accountability here??

then it's time to look beyond his current building to a more therapeutic setting where his needs can be met. The longer this cycle of Wee having extremely low tolerance and impulse control and the school having to send him home, the worse it is for him in terms of short and long-term stability. As Fran says, if you keep doing what you're doing, then you'll keep getting what you're getting.


Agreed. But aside from moving him to yet another school and taking yet another crapshoot as to whether or not they'll be able to deal with him...what do I do?

Shari, knowing that this has been a repeating cycle, and having been a teacher myself, I'm going to venture an educated guess here that the school staff already knows darn well that they can't provide what Wee needs under their roof, and that their hands are tied because if the staff formally recommends anything else in the way of services then they are responsible for funding it. If they're sending Wee home because he can't be handled at school then they aren't fulfilling their role in providing him an appropriate education and they are handing you the legal leverage you need to push for an alternative setting.

This is where I'm at, too. I'm not sure how to proceed, but I think the days of friendly team-work are over. Because once you bring in the word "law" and "lawyer", its been my experience that tensions rise...

On the home side of things, how long has it been since his medications have been revisited?

He is due for a draw, but I am in contact with his DevPed monthly, at least, and we tweak based on behaviors because we've finally learned that his "therapeutic levels" are not the norm. We reduced Depakote in the fall, and have increased it again about 3 weeks ago.

Other than the one realy bad week at home, tho, he's entirely manageable. The 2nd opinion doctor in OK and the speech pathologist who did a full day of dyslexia testing on him last fall both just don't see why the school has any trouble with him at all...he has to be "managed", but he is "manageable".

I have tried all I know to try. I have told them what I think he needs and he gets pieces of it, but its obviously not enough. He feels like a complete failure and they just keep reinforcing that. I am absolutely at wit's end, and ready to scream. I fully expect them to not call the manifestation hearing, even tho today is day 10. But once I get my bearings a bit, I plan to. I just don't know what more to ask for from them...principal wants to help, but he doesn't see the consequences of his actions, and if you only interact with Wee once a week, when he's already off, how's he ever going to figure that out? I think he's not a good player to be the additional safe person. He's got too many other things to worry about.

I'm rambling. I'll shut up now.
 
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Shari

IsItFridayYet?
Shari, one other thought.

Since things really are not progressing, I think it's extremely important to get a second opinion (or third or fourth . . . I know it's no laughing matter, been there done that) on what's going on with wee. in my humble opinion, you have not nailed down a clear diagnosis. Does he have an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)? Does he have a mood disorder? Your signature gives conflicting information, and as a parent, I would want to know. These are very important questions because the answers absolutely determine the course of treatment. Wouldn't you want to give wee the treatment that would help him reach his potential? I think that's what all of us as parents want for our children.

He is currently being seen by Susiestar's DevPed in Oklahoma and a speech/language pathologist there. Treatment is difficult becuase its 6-7 hours away, but we got more from these guys in the first 2 visits than anyone else in years. The DevPed has not, and probably won't, see Wee's really "off" side, tho, so that must be considered, and is why I continue to beleive in the diagnosis'es he has been given by the psychiatric staff he sees here. The Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) did, and stuck to, a full day of testing with Wee, so she figured out how to "handle" him...and did well at it, I might add. She looked a harried, haggled mess at the end of the day, but the testing was completed and Wee participated in all of it.
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
This is just my opinion, Shari, so do with it what you will. In an ideal world, trained staff should be able to work with- Wee and should know full well what his triggers and warning signs are to avoid these meltdowns. But it's not an ideal world and realistically, I don't think anyone could consistently avoid them especially when you throw in variables like Mallory or a bad day or a sub teacher. So then you have to think about how the meltdowns are handled, and in my humble opinion removing him from school simply is not an appropriate choice on a consistent basis (there are always exceptions). Again, I think the staff has stepped it up a bit this year, but they are in way over their heads. It seems like when they've had enough, they call you and suspend him.

Agreed. The paras aren't trained. One is a warrior mom who at least "gets it" but has no formal training and steps in and out of the picture all morning. The other para is morbidly obese, and while I have nothing against her or her weight, she does her "para-ing" from a chair....Wee is extremely active and mobile...not a good pairing, in my opinion, particularly for keeping tabs on him during recess and gym.

It is time to get very assertive and demand that your son be put in an appropriate placement with appropriately trained staff. Period.
And I think that's where I'm at...

you cannot expect anyone to educate a child who is tossing desks and rolling around on the floor. You have to address those issues and *then* you can move on to more academic stuff.
This staff is slightly better than last year's about that. Last year, the opinion was "if he's not going to be here to learn, why's he even here? (yes, they said that out loud). This year is slightly better, but the focus is still academics.

How is it going to be any different next month, next year, in 5 years? What is going to change?
again, agreed.

It is time for them to find or create an appropriate placement with staff who not only will work hard on trying to manage his triggers but who will also be able to appropriately deal with his meltdowns, on site.
I think this is where I'm at. I just hope I have what it takes to do it and do it right.

I apologize if this is coming off harsh
Not at all.

Thanks.

And PS, he's missed well over a month, total. He's missed a month in the past 2.
 

tiredmommy

Well-Known Member
Shari-

I think you need to respectfully but firmly point out to your district that their staffing and/or funding issues are not your problem. Your problem is that your son is being denied a free and appropriate public education. If they do not not have the necessary programming or staff then they must put it in place or provide an out of district placement in a neighboring district that does provide what wee's needs.
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
Shari-

I think you need to respectfully but firmly point out to your district that their staffing and/or funding issues are not your problem. Your problem is that your son is being denied a free and appropriate public education. If they do not not have the necessary programming or staff then they must put it in place or provide an out of district placement in a neighboring district that does provide what wee's needs.

Ironically, about the same time you were typing this, I was on the phone with SpEd teacher saying the same thing. She called to check on Wee.

I told her I realized she was doing all she could and all that seemed to be available here, but its just not working, and perhaps its time to look into things that aren't readily available in this district.

They absorbed Wee without adding to staff. I think that says something, too.

I am going to call SpEd Director and request the meeting be scheduled. Maybe it will be soon after we return next week.

Counselor appointment this morning went ok...he got very agitated when she asked about school, and immediately, Malory came out. I don't know if its a scapegoat or what, but she obviously consumes his thoughts. She doesn't see how he maintains at all at the level of frustration in a setting with that much stimulation...she thinks he feels totally out of control at school.
 
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busywend

Well-Known Member
Shari, I do not know how you get up each day to fight this fight for your difficult child. But, you do and I commend you for it.

I think you said it above, when law or lawyer is mentioned, tensions highten. WHO CARES??!! It is either the tension of the school staff or your son's tension. Who's are you responsible for? Only your son's. Who cares if the school staff has additional tension to deal with (like finding the funding for what your son's needs are) that is their JOB! This is your son's LIFE. Big difference.

I did not say that to offend, to only point out what came to my mind while reading. I wish you major strength as you tackle this school district. We will be here for you while you do.
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
You nailed it, Wend.

I have been careful to skirt those words in the past because it seems when you bring them up, any sort of collaboration goes by the way side. However, its time. They either need to step up or put him somewhere else, and that's gonna be ugly, cause there's no where else close to put him.
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
Recommendation from his therapist...

Wee seems to be extremely sensitive right now. In order to keep him from escalating in therapy, he required my unwavering focus, redirection, gentle reflection, soft encouragement… If my voice had even a hint of coercion in it or if he didn't feel unconditional positive regard, he immediately responded verbally and harshly and would appear to be moving towards aggression. This was a regression from previous sessions and a reflection that his internal pressure is increased and is causing him to feel anxious and out of control. I cannot imagine him being able to handle the stimulation of a classroom at this time. And he certainly is not able to maintain safe behaviors without one on one support and redirection. For whatever reason, his obsessive-anxious trigger at this time is a peer named Mallory. His experiences with her seem to have created an almost phobic like level of anxiety about interacting with her. Unfortunately at this time, his response to that is wanting to have complete control as his anxiety feels so overwhelming. While Wee is bright and able to verbalize and even carryout positive coping skills when he is level, he lacks impulse control when agitated and may resort to aggression to try and manage his anxiety. Therefore, at this time, he may need to be closely monitored and maybe even contained in a separate classroom with minimal stimulation.
 
i'm sorry for your son...i dont have anything to really add other than i really feel for both of you.

i've been reading your threads for a while, and think you've gotten some great advice on this one...it seems to me that there has to be a solution here, even if its a creative one. i guess i'm naive, but i've never heard of a situation where there isnt an alternative placement available....i'm pretty confused over why there isnt an all day, self contained classroom in your district (i'd have to think at this point, appropriate or not, labels or not, a self contained room with much less transition involved would be something to at least look at). i'm wondering if somehow they are saying that wee is X label and there is no placement available, but yet there is A, B, C, D, "label" options that you dont even know about it.
or a modified day.
or an out of district placement.
there are always alternatives....it just sounds like this mainstream/spEd placement is working against wee....

and, quite frankly, i think i'd be done with non-formal meetings too. and i'd ensure that whomever can actually make decisions on the spot regarding placement was the first one to attend.

my heart goes out to both of you....
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
We are a very small district. We have doubled in the past 10 years, but we still have less than 100 kids per most grades. And apparently they are able to mainstream all the other SpEd kids they have.

We just started an alternative high school this year. There is an alternative elementary school in the next district, but they do not accept any out-of-district kids, even placed by another district. Going beyond that, we are probably looking at a couple hours away to find anything really "meant" to accommodate Wee. There may be other districts closer that could handle him, its really a person-by-person basis there, but its a crapshoot if we're talking about just going to another district and trying this again there.

There has to be things available, but I am not finding them right now. And not knowing what's available makes it hard to push them to do something for him.
 

SRL

Active Member
Shari, I think on the school front that this is the direction that you must go if Wee is to move forward from here. It takes a lot for any parent to stand up to the school district, but my fear for Wee is that this cycle will continue in which the district can skirt their responsibilities and because you are such a caring parent you will continue to step in and pick up the slack, instead of holding them accountable to their federally mandated responsibilities. In the short term we do what we have to for our kids, but we have heard often from parents here with older kids that when they went to extremes in picking up the slack, it turned into enabling the school to continue on and is harmful to the child in the long run.

Best case scenario is that you hire someone to help you accomplish what needs to happen with the district. It isn't cheap, but will probably be cheaper than years of missed work hours, losing benefits, or paying out of pocket for an alternative school setting or medical bills if his stability continues to deteriorate.

If you absolutely can't, it's critical to educate yourself and be fluent in the terminology of IDEA and FAPE, and be willing to use it to defend his rights. I've italicized the important part of the definition from Dept of Ed website--clearly Wee's services aren't designed to meet his needs as adequately as the needs of students without disabilities in his school. You need to be armed with a specific list of how they are violating this law. Bringing in a written log of all the hours they have sent him home and deprived him of his FAPE will let them know you mean business.

http://ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html#terms
Free appropriate public education (FAPE): a term used in the elementary and secondary school context; for purposes of Section 504, refers to the provision of regular or special education and related aids and services that are designed to meet individual educational needs of students with disabilities as adequately as the needs of students without disabilities are met and is based upon adherence to procedures that satisfy the Section 504 requirements pertaining to educational setting, evaluation and placement, and procedural safeguards

Here's the page on wrightslaw on FAPE.
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/fape.index.htm
 
We are a very small district. We have doubled in the past 10 years, but we still have less than 100 kids per most grades. And apparently they are able to mainstream all the other SpEd kids they have.

forgive me for saying what i'm going to say--obviously i dont walk in your shoes, and i'm sure you've done everything you can think of...

thats 800+ kids from 1-8th grade, not including k.

you must live in some amazing district if they can meet the needs of all those kids in a mainstream setting.

because that would be virtually impossible. not every child can manage in a mainstream setting.

maybe someone here has better ideas, but i'd be on a fact-finding mission with the school district asap...maybe there is something in the school board minutes, maybe you could call the guidance counselor at the alternative high and pick their brains, etc

(and where exactly would the population for your new high school be coming from? do they magically start to have edu issues in the 9th grade?)
 

SRL

Active Member
forgive me for saying what i'm going to say--obviously i dont walk in your shoes, and i'm sure you've done everything you can think of...

thats 800+ kids from 1-8th grade, not including k.

you must live in some amazing district if they can meet the needs of all those kids in a mainstream setting.

because that would be virtually impossible. not every child can manage in a mainstream setting.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Something doesn't add up here, and if it true it explains why the neighboring district isn't taking any more of your district's students because they're probably getting too many moving in after failing there.

I know some of the homebound instructors in our district and you would be amazed at how many middle school students are on homebound instruction for mental health issues.

Even if they are able to mainstream all their other sped students, that doesn't mean squat. What is important here is that they are required to provide an appropriate education for Wee. Period. It's their responsibility to do it in district or to contract out. You need to stop thinking and talking in terms of what the district has and start thinking and talking in terms of what Wee needs.
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
I'm sure there are others, but unless I put notice in the paper (and I've toyed with the idea), I'm not finding them. I hear other disgruntled parents, but their kids are still in school, at least. I haven't found any on home-bound instruction except those with medical issues.

You need to stop thinking and talking in terms of what the district has and start thinking and talking in terms of what Wee needs.

That hits it right there. They've been collecting money for Wee for a year now, and best I can tell, not spending a lot of it on Wee.

I went to deliver his valentine's and pick up the ones from his friends today, since he's missing the party. Walking into that room hit me hard. I need the next few days to pull it together...
 
and if it true it explains why the neighboring district isn't taking any more of your district's students because they're probably getting too many moving in after failing there

(more likely its a small program, and they are full to the gills with their own population, but still)

shari--i would start with this neighboring district. i would call them personally, and ask what placements they would have for a tuition based student, if any. call the principles office to start.

because i'm getting the impression YOUR cst told YOU that this district isnt accepting out of district placements. it may or may not be true because its an expensive proposition. my guess is that if that district have slot #8 open, and someone want to pay to get in it, then the district wouldnt care if they came from the moon. (sometimes they hold the last slot in the class just in case, but more often than not they would rather fill it for the $$)

and your district would be responsible for the cost of tuition as an appropriate, out-of-district placement, AND provide transportation.

i know that feeling of "you cant know what you dont know"....it just doesnt soon plausible that there are no other options in a district of 800ish kids.

but i'm also going to say this...no program will ever be "perfect". otherwise it would be called "wee's class", Know what I mean?? its very difficult, if not impossible, to get every single iota of needs met--prioritizing is going to be important in evaluating a program.

and there will inevitably be personality conflicts/teachers who won't "get" it/and other hassles....no where is perfect. and every school year is different, and needs to be reevaluated accordingly. placement that works this year, might not meet his needs the next, and so on.

i would also be investigating every single public and private setting within an hour radius from your home. because they *are* there, even if you live in timbuktu...and there has to somewhere thats a better fit than what is happening now.
 
also shari...this might sound bizarre, but it might be of huge help to you to find a support group or private support agency in your area...of ANY disability (downs syndrome, autism, etc)--not just something specifically about wee, in fact, the broader the group, the better. even something like "parents of disabled children".

i prefer parent run ones since they seem to have less rules/criteria, but if you only have something with a formal organization, its still worth a phone call.

because it seems to me you need information. and you need very specific, regional info--AND you need to hear it first hand.

and while they might talk about things that seemingly dont apply (you'll be amazed at what will apply to your personal situation...kids are kids, people are people!), you might be shocked at the sheer amount of information other parents can offer you....i'd wager you'd get some real concrete ideas FAST. i find parents are the greatest information deseminators....they tend to be more than happy to tell you what does/doesnt work for them.

its an idea...
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
I've talked to the alternative school in the next district. Wee's county case manager used to work for it. They don't take out of district kids. Period. They are full with their own. They are willing to offer ideas/suggestions to his current school, tho. And until recently, they had a very bad reputation...you didn't want your kid sent there. That's changed with new admin, tho.

I'm involved in a couple of local support groups, but none are in this district. I'm sure there's a need...don't think I have the oomph to start one, tho.
 

flutterby

Fly away!
Shari, I've been reading this thread and just shaking my head.

I remember the horrible closet stories last year, and now this year their "fix" is to send him home. Sigh....

You've been given wonderful advice and I have nothing else to offer...just my support, understanding and hugs.
 
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