Please help

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Sh4nnon, May 2, 2012.

  1. Sh4nnon

    Sh4nnon New Member

    This is my very first post.

    My 5 year old son is what has brought me to this site. I'm not even sure where to begin. I will give you a little background on him..

    He didn't talk until he was 2.5 (with the help of a speech therapist). He received speech for 3 years (finished last September). He was diagnosis with hypnotonia (low tone) and also received Occupational Therapist (OT)/pt for a couple years. His speech therapist who has worked with autistic kids for 30 plus years ruled out autism, but did say its a good chance he has add/adhd . She's Said he's just really stubborn & difficult. Recently we took him to a psychiatrist & psychologist which I feel was a complete waste of time. The psychiatrist didn't seem like he knew what he was doing. Through autism out there &the psychologist just a few test &"we answered a lot of questions. Her report said anxiety & mild ADHD, but I'm just not sure as she didn't spend a lot of time with him. Anyhow I want to take him to someone to get the RIGHT diagnosis and am not sure where??

    Also, his behavior is out of control. We have tried different disciplines on him. He would get out of time outs. It tried spanking but he would just get more aggressive with me and hit me back. Any sort of aggresive behavior I do to him the ore he becomes aggresive. We were so desperate to have a punishment that we emptied a room of everything & put a lock on the outside. We would put him in the empty room ( with no blinds no nothing not even a vent cover as he would take it off ans throw it) and he just ended up peeing in th vent. Any punishment just does not seem to work. He ups his behaviors until I've exhausted all of my punishments. I recently had a baby last October & leading up to me having the baby his behavior was absolutely horrible. I had to get a new bigger car before the baby came and my son would flip out getting into it. He would bang the car take his shoes off throw them at me. Throw whatever he could at me in the car while I was driving. He would bang his head on the carseatmso hard and flip out to where I could t even buckle him in. Or he would scream at the top of his lungs.

    Other things he does

    Flips out when I put him in a time out. He will fight me with hitting me. Pulling my clothes to where he has ripped them, kick me bite me, throw whatever is in his reach. He's like a tornado when he knows he is getting a time out.

    He ONLY acts this way to my husband and I. His pre school teacher and others that have looked after him have nothing but great things to say about him. They says he's an angel for them. They cannot believe what I tell him about his behaviour.

    He has major control issues. He just got a ds and is obsessed with it. When I put the timer on if he sees there is 30 seconds remaining he will hurry up and give it back to me before the timer goes & then proceed to ask for it back and tell me he wasn't done.

    He just cannot be told. No matter what if my husband or I try to control him in any way he just will not have it. We have to try to trick him into everything ex. I bet you can't eat 10 pieces of carrot. Or he's obsessed with winning. He HAS to win everything. If he doesn't watch out.. So my husbands has to say "I'll race you to the bath room" Just to get him to have his bath.

    Getting dressed is another nightmare. I recently told him that he's not having breakfast until he gets dressed. Well he was in his room for an hour one morninig not even trying and then getting mad and throwing his toys & them, crying & throwing himself of the floor.

    He will not play by himself at home. He has to be every where I am in the house.

    He is extremely shy.

    Some books ive read the explosive child, out of synch child, driven to distraction etc. I just feel like I want to understand him better and get th right diagnosis so I know what I'm dealing with. My husband and I just don't know how to parent him. It it SO difficult.

    Sorry this is all over the place

    Thanks for any advice. I also want to add, my side of the family have some mental health problems. Anxiety, bi polar, depression. I suffer from anxiety & in the past depression. I hate that my son might possible suffer with this :-(
  2. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Hi, and welcome.

    Not sure where you are in the world (we're all over on this board!) - if you give us a general idea of your location, it helps - as you see, my location is VERY general... but even just knowing you're in the USA vs. say, Canada, makes a difference.

    You definitely haven't had the best of luck with evaluators... and a Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) is not qualified to rule out Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). He started life with a range of problems, and he has gotten some help, but... there is more.

    Has he ever been specifically evaluated by an Occupational Therapist (OT), for sensory integration and motor skills issues? Obviously, he has motor skills issues... these may be at the root of the "dressing" problem. What accommodations do you make? Does he have to do buttons, zippers, etc., or are all his clothes pull-ons? Just trying to get a feel for the situation. Sensory integration is another huge source of behavior issues. WE don't see the triggers, but if the child is being "overloaded" on some level... it really helps to find out what the triggers are.

    Even though the Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) overstepped by "ruling out" Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)... any chance you could ask the Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) about APDs? Not necessarily language processing, but maybe one of the others, like the ability to listen through background noise? APDs are mentally exhausting. Usually not caught until at least age 7 or so... but if he's already working with a Speech Language Pathologist (SLP), the Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) may have noticed things...

    It's so hard when we don't know what is going on.
  3. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    Glad you found us sorry you needed to.

    neuropsychologist evaluation or Developmental pediatrician (who is going to want neurologist to examine too)

    The explosive child was a good one to read but your son is still a little young especially for collaborative problem solving part of it. I think everything is going into basket A or C for right now.

    This could be willful 5yo behavior or could be much more without getting a full evaluation you aren't going to have all the answers you are looking for.

    I didn't have time for true charting so used month at a glance calendar with big squares and multi color pens- red/anger, blue/sad, green/food etc. - if need more detailed note just put reference # in appropriate ink color then write the long version in your journals.

    With family history that isn't adHd I would make sure they had done full evaluation before allowing them to start adHd treatment. Not saying it isn't adHd I'm just saying use caution.

    This isn't a sprint its a marathon, I know it's frustrating but try not to rush treatment until full evaluation done.
  4. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome. You have come to the right place, with other parents who understand!
    Some (not all) of what you say about your son reminds me of my son, also five, in his worst moments... I don't attempt time outs any more because it led to exactly the same results as you describe. My son also wants to win and the way I get him dressed some mornings is to hold a "getting dressed" competition which I always strangely lose... (I don't know how old he'll be when he figures out that I am doing it on purpose and the strategy doesn't work any more...)
    I've seen some big improvements in my son's behaviour over the past year or so (though I'm sure many parents of "normal" children would still be horrified by much of his behaviour - this has now become irrelevant to me; I am not parenting a typical child and we have to change our parenting style to reflect that, which it sounds like you're doing). When I first came to this website I was in a place of despair and confusion at his defiant, aggressive and oppositional behaviour. But things are basically a lot calmer much of the time and I have learnt to recognise when he simply cannot help his meltdowns - in my son's case, things like tiredness and hunger play a LARGE part in his tantrums. I have also found that he is not too young at five for collaborative problem solving (problem is more that it is hard for me :)) and this is how we resolve quite a lot of stuck situations, through negotiation and compromise.
    My son is also a basically good kid with lots of good qualities. Is it possible for you to discern these in your son? I know how hard it can be to continue seeing the good points in the midst of all this...
    Basically I just want to say that there is hope. The diagnosis is useful (if you can get one - I haven't really managed it yet) but understanding your child's mechanisms and triggers is probably much more useful in devising a parenting style that works.
  5. SearchingForRainbows

    SearchingForRainbows Active Member

    I agree with the others that it is necessary to have your son correctly diagnosed. The key to effective treatment is to provide intervention as soon as possible and the correct diagnosis will (hopefully) unlock the door to necessary supports and services. I know it can be a long drawn out process, I can feel your pain and frustration, but you are moving in the right direction!

    While you're waiting to take your son to his appointments (the evaluations are usually scheduled months in advance), contact the school where he'll be attending kindergarten. Speak to the principal, sped director and share your concerns. They should be able to set up a full evaluation for your son. Make sure they have him evaluated by all necessary specialists including an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP), Occupational Therapist (OT), neuropsychologist, developmental pedi, etc... The school should be able to have him evaluated much faster and most likely has specialists either on board or who they use for this purpose. Once the results are in, they should schedule a meeting to go over the results and set up an IEP based on the findings.

    Although school staff will evaluate your son, I believe that it is absolutely necessary for you to have your own evaluations too. You can share as much or as little as you want with the school. It's up to you. From personal experience and from what some of the members have shared here, the school evaluations are not as thorough as the ones done privately. In many cases it comes down to budget issues vs. your child's needs. I'm getting ahead of myself and I don't want to confuse or scare you - One step at a time!

    In many ways, your son's behavior is similar to the behaviors of both my boys when they were around his age. I'm not qualified to offer any opinions about your son's diagnosis, but many developmental and/or mental health issues appear similar on the surface. There are a few things you can try that might make life at home more bearable even before he's diagnosed. As you already know from what you've read, throw parenting as you know it out the window. It just doesn't work!

    I found that the best way to try to avoid a "meltdown" is if you can find some of the triggers and avoid them. Try not to think in terms of punishment, but instead think in terms of learning experiences. If your son has trouble getting dressed in the mornings, I agree with whoever said it might have something to do with sensory issues, some materials may feel scratchy, make him itch and he might not know how to tell you this. For now, you might have him dress in cotton shirts without tags, pants and shorts made of softer fabrics then denim. Give him a choice of two outfits the night before. Have him pick one, lay it out for him along with his underwear, socks, shoes. In the morning, it'll be easier for him to get himself dressed.

    Don't give him ultimatums like you can't eat breakfast until you're dressed. Instead you might let him choose between eating first or getting dressed first. He might surprise you and be ready on time! A huge issue for lots of kids with developmental delays, mental health issues is feeling the need to be in control because in reality, they feel so out of control. Hope this makes sense! As long as the end result is the same, getting out the door on time to get to school on time, it really doesn't matter whether he eats or dresses first.

    The younger of my two sons, difficult child 2, was and is to this day, obsessed with being the best at everything, winning too. For now, until you have appropriate services in place, I would continue to let him "win" as long as you get the desired outcome. Always try to keep in mind that your son is doing the best he can to let you know something is wrong/he needs help, and "melting" is the only way he knows how. For now, it might make life a bit easier if you understand this.

    I went through some very dark periods while raising my difficult children, when I felt like I was living in HE77, like my home was a prison... I could go on and on and on but I'll stop for now. This is your thread and I don't want to hog it, lol... I wish I had found this site when my children were as young as your son!! It's a great place with lots of wonderful, caring, people. The support here is amazing and I hope you stick around and let us get to "know" you.

    I hope some of what I've said helps you, but it's only my two cents - Take what you want, discard the rest... Just know I'm thinking of you today... SFR


    Hi. I can relate to so much of what you said. From about 2 years old we had problems with our son and defiance/oppositional behavior. Time-outs NEVER worked. I remember when I put him in his room for a time-out once, he had knocked down his dresser, pulled some of the wallpaper border off the wall, and spread diaper cream all over. I have also tried punishments and spankings and like you said, it would just increase his anger. In order for him to do things, my husband would also often challenge him like I'll race you to the bathroom". Car behavior was the same as your son's. The one thing I will say is that my husband and I used to always say that "he's only like this with us" but unfortunately/fortunately that changed as he got older. He started having a lot more problems with peers and teachers. The only reason I say this was fortunate is because people began to realize what we were talking about and we started getting more answers. It is an exhausting road. I'm sorry you have to be here but I'm glad you found us. Chris
  7. SmallTownMom

    SmallTownMom New Member

    I have discovered with my 9yr old difficult child that he needs/wants to have control over "everything". I can remeber the complete meltdowns that he had whenever he had to stop whatever activity he was doing and do/go somewhere else. Bedtime was an hour of crying and screaming, morning time was filled with me yelling and nagging for him to hurry up.
    After learing what I have about his need to control his actions, and that he does not transistion well we have implemented a few things in our house. It took almost a year but things are running smoother.
    My difficult child now has a list that he does in the morning before he is permitted any electronics (he is 9 and can read these lists, you could use pictures). We sat down one evening and he helped make these lists. He also has a list for after school and after supper. Now instead of "nagging" him all the time and telling him what he HAS to do, I just say "Hey bud, how is the list coming along?" This gives him the control as to what he is doing on the list, he can go in any order he wants to.
    Like I said the change wasn't overnight, but he goes to bed with no problem. He even says to me "mom it is 8, I am going to bed". There still are days where something else may trigger a meltdown, but we are still learning what all his trigger are.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Count me in as another one for a neuropsychologist and one who thinks he probably does have a form of autism (we had a hello of a time getting our son diagnosed too...we got the ADHD/ODD speel, but he was on the spectrum and now nobody disputes it). Here is a little online test to see if he falls into the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) assessment's idea of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). People who post on an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) site that I chat on feel it is very accurate as long as the parent answers the questions with honesty. Sounds like he could have Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified (high functioning autism) or Aspergers. I would not rule it out even if some professionals have. It is too young for them to really know. in my opinion he is not difficult on purpose...he is differently wired and needs help and understanding, not to be told he is defiant. Most children want to behave. If they don't or can't, there is almost always an underlying cause and the earlier you find it, the more you can help him have a wonderful life and great outcome...and you can stop the teachers/parents who don't understand from blaming you as it is NOT your fault! In case nobody has suggested it yet, please buy yourselsf a copy of "The Explosive Child" by Ross greene. It will help you tons while you wait for your appointment (I would see the neuropsychologist first). Good luck!

    PS--All boys seem to like videogames. Spectrum kids want to do nothing EXCEPT play videogames. They also tend to repeat by rote cartoons and other shows that they like. It can seem like terrible is part of the differently wired thang :) in my opinion they want control because they are so different, don't understand their world, and feel a desperate need to at least control their own environment. My son is much less controlling now that he has had so much help. He is grown now...18. There is hope no matter what is wrong.

    Here's the test:
  9. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    Hello, and welcome to the board. You will find alot of support here.

    As I was reading the OP and the responses I was reminded that we did the "get dressed race" with both of our kids. We did it difficult child so that he would get dressed and we did it with easy child because we actually thought it was fun when we did it with difficult child, and he loved it! I had forgotten all about that.

    One thing that I found helped with difficult child as he was growing is to give him choices. He always did really well with choices because to him it meant that he had some sort of control. When he was real little, 3 or 4, he would give me a terrible time with getting dressed because I was picking out what he would wear for the day. He wanted more control over that. So, I told him that he could pick his clothes, but they had to be season appropriate and he had to match. If he picked a certain shirt he had to wear the pants that went with it. He did really well with that and we were both happy. He had some control over what he could wear and I got a child that was dressed. Even now, at just about 13 years old, he still does alot better when he is given choices, so if I can find a way to give him a choice about something, I give it to him. Again, for him it's all about control. Are you going to take your shower or do your homework first? Do you want to do your homework before or after dinner? I realize that your son is alot younger than mine, but it might be something to think about. It's not the be all and end all of answers, but it might help to being a little peace into your house.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Bunny, you reminded me of something with dressing and difficult children...
    From the time the kids were tiny, we laid out clothes the night before. As soon as they were old enough to pick, they began to pick... but it was picked the night before. In the morning, there was no wasted time trying to PICK.
  11. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Hi there, he does sound like there are several issues going on and you are working hard to find solutions. Most of us try the traditional stuff first, that's ok, you learned something and now you are on to learning other things...right? (would be great if those methods DID work...of course it would.. I go crazy when people say things like they need consequences, consistency etc... ummm, most of us tried that first...we would love it if that would work, but what if it doesn't??? Then we end up where we all are, smile)

    As far as the Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) ruling out Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), she/he can't do that alone. Now she may have a good idea but remember, she likely sees him in a very specific kind of setting and she does not get to see how he communicates with peers, how he plays with his toys in free play, what happens when the subject is not related to something in the room or a predictable subject that has been presented to him, etc.

    To diagnose Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) requires multiple areas of consideration, so she may be perfectly right, but just keep open to others bringing it up if you find out through more comprehensive evaluation that there are concerns in that area or others....rather than his just being very stubborn, smile.

    I agree with others that it would be good to check into a comprehensive evaluation to help consider all of your concerns and someone like a neuropsychologist can look at his learning style, brain development and how that relates to mood, behavior, developmental levels....... For my son's insurance, I can just call the places I want him to go to and they help with the referral process (like if they need a dr. referral they call the doctor I tell them about and then get the info from them.... I usually call the doctor and say that I am having him evaluated so just an FYI I will need your referral when they send it through. I have never had a doctor refuse anything, knock wood). Other insurances or offices have different ways but one thing for sure, you can call the place where you want the assessment and ask how people with your insurance (or if private pay then that) access their services.

    If you have not contacted the schools then yes, that is also a route to go. That is no cost to you and you can start by calling the school district and asking for the early childhood special education department. Tell them you would like an evaluation for your child. child find laws require that the district evaluate any child with a suspected disability. They may start with a screening.
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I missed that.
    A speech therapist can not diagnose or not diagnose anything. It is not her field. Honestly, it gets me angry when they try to do more than they are trained to do. She may have ideas about Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) that are stereotypical and wrong.
  13. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    On a 5yo regardless of who ruled out or diagnosis'd anything I wouldn't carve it in stone and put blinders on. Example Angel was 6 years and 9 or 10 therapist into treatment for bipolar before therapist said "this is more then just bipolar" (just bipolar ROFL ugh!) and led me down path to her Asperger's diagnosis - they had medicated her for adHd (capitol H) for 2 years prior to the bipolar diagnosis.

    Anyway spanking her to try to change her behaviors would have been equivalent to beating a blind person to make them see!

    Not sure if other parents of 5yo's have noticed but at this age my kids didn't seem to hear anything after the words NO or STOP.

    It made things tricky Angel would be screaming "I don't want to go to school, I want to go to the park!"
    I want to go to work so can eat this month!
    Would have to say something like " I agree - I would rather go to park then work too, I love the park if its not raining we will stop there on the way home to play, if raining we will go tomorrow" I had to have the if raining clause or she would totally meltdown at school if it started raining! Oh and I had to have her bottom on a swing within 72 hours.

    Trying to get 2 of them out the door in the morning UGH - try to do as much the night before as you can, set out clothes, have basket next to door for everything goes with you in morning, make lunches etc.

    Dressing - allow extra time set the pile in front of them and say "oh we have time if you dress quickly to have a story while waiting for bus, will have time to do blues clues computer game etc." what ever carrot need to dangle to motivate them.
  14. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    NO way the Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) could say he doesn't have autism. Sorry, I dont' buy it. SLPs are NOT qualified to make that diagnosis. No matter how much experience they have.

    He needs to see a developmental pediatrician or a neuropsychologist. Be ready for his diagnosis to change and evolve as he grows up and different things make themselves known. He sounds sooooo much like my Wiz, who has asperger's, that it is amazing. Even the 'angel for everyone else, devil to husband and I".

    Please,please,please NEVER leave him alone in a roomw ith the baby. Not for 5 seconds or to go to the potty yourself. Take the baby with you. Wiz hurt my daughter a lot. We spend years where if only 1 parent was home, the same sex child had to go into the bathroom with them. it was the ONLY way we could keep J safe. If I walked to the kitchen to get somethng and was gone for 10 seconds, J had a bruise or cut from wiz. All the anger was targetted at her. It was hard to keep her safe.

    As for the ds, ignore him when he wants it back because he wasn't done. He will fuss and rage, for a while, but if you never ever let him have it back, if that timer is the rule, no matter what, eventually it will be somewhat accepted. If you ever, even ONE time, give it back and let him play for a bit more, he will still be demanding that and truly expecting that in five years. Because that ONE time he won, he got it back, and that was soooo great in his mind that he will truly expect it every time. Even if you never again give in. in my opinion it is part of how his brain works.

    It sounds like your instincts are pointing you toward autism. Trust your instncts more than an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) who is out of her area of expertise when she rules autism in or out. it s a complex disorder and no 2 people have the same exact form of autism. Actually, from what I have been told by the neuropsychologist, they now think that adhd and sensory integration disorder are both autistic spectrum disorders. It isn't widely known, but he told us that at the conferences he spoke at and attended, this was how the 'experts' are going with classifying these problems.

    I higly recommend What Your Explosive Child is Trying to Tell You by Doug Riley and Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood by Faye and Cline. THey are both amazing books and super helpful. I also recommend The Out of Sync Child Has Fun by kranowitz.

    Have you tried giving your son a reward for playing or reading by himself? It is a way to help him learn independence, and in my opinion all kids need this. Mine used to get a small treat after playing alone. I started with 5 min and worked up to an hour over a period of a year or so. I also instituted "Mommy Time Out" were anyone who disturbed/talked to/interacted with Mommy had to do a chore for Mommy. I used this wehn I was so frazzled that I couldn't cope. It was a huge sanity saver for me, and probably kept me from beating my kids more than once.

    I would push for school to do a complete evaluation and I would also try to get a neuropsychologist and/or developmental pediatrician to evaluate him. You could look for a children's or university hospital and have them do the evaluations - hopefully they would have a multidisciplinary evaluation wehre different types of professionals all evaluate him and then work to figure out what is going on and how best to help.
  15. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Susie... our absolute best therapist (PhD level) told us that the 'experts' have long considered the whole suite of non-specific developmental disorders to be related (i.e. this doesn't count Downs, which is a chromosome issue, for example). There is a "line in the sand" that marks the cut-off between Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and non-Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)... and that is usually the social/emotional aspect.

    Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) is a developmental disorder - its symptoms frequently seen in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids, often seen in ADHD kids... but can be seen in kids with no signs of either ADHD or Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).
    ADHD is, of course, another developmental disorder in it's own right. And yes, Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids often have these symptoms, too.
    But... some of the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) behaviors are distictive - as a group of behaviors. No one kid is going to have all of them. But ADHD kids don't line up their cars and get mad if somebody puts them in the wrong order. Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) kids don't look at you strange when you try to explain why bumping into others is a problem. There's a set of symptoms that is missing in these "milder" developmental disorders.

    therapist said... it's all just "lines in the sand". A kid with severe ADHD and Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD), is going to be a LOT closer in characteristics to an Asperger's kid than they are to an "average" kid. Exactly where the lines should be drawn, is a matter of ongoing debate... probably forever.
  16. keista

    keista New Member

    in my opinion the reason that line gets fuzzy is due to mis-dxing kids. At 3 a kid certainly can look ADHD because he/she is lacking "classic" Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) presentation so the kid is diagnosed as ADHD and then, that is what ADHD looks like. Years later it's discovered that the child is actually Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), BUT nobody goes back and tells EVERYONE that the child was in contact with that in fact it was Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), so the ppl in the child's early years - this includes doctors and other professionals - still view those behaviors and presentation as ADHD and NOT Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and the line get fuzzier and fuzzier over the years - even in the professional community.
  17. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Its fuzzy for lots of reasons - not just mis-dxes. For example, a very high functioning Asperger's kid may have LESS "issues" than a kid who has ADHD, Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD), LDs and a few other things tossed in for good measure. But... this second kid is NOT a missed-diagnosis of Aspergers or Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Its just a really complex kid. How do I know? Because that is MY kid. Absolutely NOT Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) or Aspergers. Even the "clinically significant findings" in that area have been shot down... caused by accumulated deficits from other non-diagnosed things.

    Everybody wants to look at things as a single line, with a whole continuation of severity. It isn't even a circle... it's a globe. There are so many combinations and permutations that... experts miss half of it, for a minimum.
  18. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Well said, IC!
  19. keista

    keista New Member

    Agreed. That's the point. if for the first half of their years the only diagnosis they had was ADHD, then ppl think that ADHD looks like your kids. When your kids are not only ADHD, but ADHD +++ The next kid to go through those class rooms who actually have ADHD+++ will be labeled ADHD because it's "been seen before" not realising that later on the +++ was found.

    Am I making sense? I can actually "see it" in my head, just not sure I'm getting it out right. OK, I'll see if I can come up with an analogy.
  20. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    No analogy needed... you're preaching to the choir!

    In terms of developmental issues, iIt's the ADHD +++ kids, and the missed-diagnosis Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)/Aspie kids who frequently end up with late dxes... either the first diagnosis (adhd) was correct but incomplete, OR the first diagnosis was incorrect due to being part of something bigger. And there-in lies the difficulty. Because... what WAS seen? is definitely ADHD.

    UNLESS... the poor kid isn't ADHD at all, but instead is "just" Auditory Processing Disorders (APD). Which isn't even a developmental problem!