Question for Those Familiar with Borderline (BPD) and False Accusations...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DaisyFace, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    I am hoping to get some advice on this...

    Since we are moving soon - we are changing MH clinics and therefore a new therapist. The new therapist seems OK - except that she is firmly in the camp of "Borderline (BPD) is caused by childhood abuse". There is absolutely NO evidence of any kind of abuse of difficult child...but new therapist feels strongly that there was most likely sexual abuse at a very early age. therapist feels that it is very easy for me to have been completely unaware and for difficult child to not have any conscious memory of this abuse.

    My immediate reaction is ANGER because to argue that my child was abused while she was still in diapers invariably implicates my husband - and there is NO WAY in HADES that he EVER touched that baby inappriopriately. And who does that leave? Grandpa? Another toddler at daycare? It's crazy!

    But - my second reaction is that childhood abuse IS commonly linked to Borderline (BPD)....and even if difficult child does not hear it from this therapist - she is likely to hear it from other people. So if I argue against this therapist and ask for a different assignment - it doesn't necessarily mean the "abuse" issue won't come up.

    So my question is:

    My difficult child has made false accusations of child abuse (and has accused guys she dated of raping her) for years. If a therapist tries to discuss "abuse" with her - it is likely to make the false accusations worse? or will it somehow validate a warped view of always being the victim? or would it actually be helpful?

    If you have any experience with Borderline (BPD) and false allegations of abuse - I would really like to hear your input on this....

    Thank you!
  2. somerset

    somerset Member

    The combination of a therapist who believes your child must have been abused and a child who tells people she was abused, when she wasn't, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. The therapist will not only believe the false allegations, but even if difficult child admits she made it up, the therapist may believe she's actually bringing up repressed memories. Do you have to have this particular therapist? In any case, rigidity and closemindedness are not good in a therapist, in my opinion.
  3. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    We are somewhat limited in our choices because anyone with Medicaid MUST be treated by the County MH facility. The county workers are not the best. My thinking is that even if I make a stink and demand a different therapist - there's no telling what we will end up with. The other choice might be completely inept.

    The good / bad is that now that difficult child is turning 17 - she is going to be treated like an adult. Mom and Dad will have no input on the feedback whatsoever...and will not be welcome to attend unless difficult child wants to address something in particular with us. This will NOT be "our" therapist - it will be difficult child's.

    But yeah - that whole "repressed memories" thing scares me...

    Then again, there are plenty of folks out there ready to believe difficult child's stories of abuse as it is....and there are plenty of internet sources on Borderline (BPD) that indicate childhood abuse as a primary cause. The very fact that the therapist is looking at a diagnosis of Borderline (BPD) iks probably enough justification for difficult child to deduce that there MUST have been something really horrible happening in her life just as she suspected all along...
  4. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm no expert in this, however, my first instinct in reading your post is to change doctors. I've had so much therapy in my life and one thing I am certain of and that is, there are good therapists, and there are bad therapists, and unfortunately the bad ones can do damage. My sister, who has many diagnosis, one of which is Bipolar, saw a therapist who was a believer in the childhood abuse causing mental illness and my sister went through a long period of time blaming each and every one of us in the family for some pretty hideous stuff. I had trouble believing it in the beginning but when it was my turn to be blamed, then I knew it was all a false accusation. Years later, she was diagnosed with some kind of amnesia, I'd never heard of it and she has no memory of childhood stuff at all now and has recanted her accusations.

    I've also heard from others that false accusations are sometimes part of bipolar, I don't know about Borderline (BPD). Of course, there could be abuse somewhere you aren't aware of, but I believe that has to come out on it's own, not at the prompting of a therapist. Remember years ago, there was all that media attention about therapists "planting" sexual abuse ideas into their patients heads? Yikes. That is so dangerous. I am appalled at that kind of a thing because you are so vulnerable with a therapist at certain times.

    If I were you, I would really trust my instincts around this therapist. I am personally anxious around anyone who has such black and white kind of thinking. There is such a huge grey area in mental issues. If you read about any mental illness, there are so many theories, they just don't know everything and it all keeps evolving. Be careful.
  5. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Wow, DF...

    How many people can you think of, off the top of your head, that would testify - either direction? For or against - you, husband...?

    Because... In the case of an actual allegation...

    CPS will get involved. If you get a decent one, they'll figure out in a hurry that there is no basis. But if not... I don't envy you...

    The other thing is, once she is 18, she won't be interested in accusations - she will just want to leave... And of course, you will "let" her... Yeah.

  6. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Well, that's the thing...

    Anyone who "Googles" Borderline (BPD) will find information that states that Borderline (BPD) is connected to "refrigerator Moms" and childhood trauma / abuse. So the automatic presumption is that difficult child must have been abused in order to develop Borderline (BPD).

    difficult child's own stories have prompted well-meaning parents to notify the schools and the police of the "abuse" - and in each case the accusations have been quickly investigated and found to have no basis.

    So in a way....we've already been down this road many times...
  7. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Gosh - my "instincts" are just gone at this point...

    I think I've been through way too much idiocy to be able to make a judgment call about the latest in a long line of barely competent providers. This therapist is probably an idiot - but is she any more of an idiot than anyone else we've been dealing with?

    12 visits. I just have to get difficult child through 12 visits. One each month - then she turns 18 and I. AM. DONE. with this therapy at County MH garbage...
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, the therapist is using "old school" thinking about Borderline (BPD). I found out I had it later in my life and the thinking has changed about as much as autism, in which when I was very young it was also supposed to be caused by "refrigerator moms." Bull!

    I have never been abused sexually or physically in my entire life. I had verbal abuse, but many people have an equal level of verbal abuse and do not develop Borderline (BPD). I had Borderline (BPD) signs, as well as the usual accompanying mood disorder symptoms, in my very early teens. My father has many narcicistic traits and my mom was rather unstable...they are starting to believe that, like most things, a tendency to develop personality disorders is also inherited. And that is what I think too.

    Borderline (BPD) is a very difficult disorder to have and to live with. The borderline gets very angry and wants revenge and it can take years and years of therapy and the right medication to help the borderline get ahold of her emotioins. Unfortunately, people can be hurt by the borderline while she is in the throes of it and it sounds like your daughter's method of doing so is to cry abuse. This does not mean that she has been abused, but she HAS found that crying abuse gets her sympathy and attention and hurts the person she alleges did it. Maybe she WAS abused, but I don't think she had to be and I wish you had better choices for therapists.

    Have you ever heard of Dialectal Behavioral Therapy? Although I'm sure you could not find a DBT therapist who would take Medicaid at the county MH center, I'm going to post the link to a GREAT teaching book about DBT. DBT changed my life. CBT started the change thirty years ago and DBT just added to the help. DBT was developed strictly for borderline and it is so incredibly successful and helpful (if the borderline wants help). If you think that your daughter wants to get better, I'd give her the book and work with her on the side. If she won't, you can read it to see how to best handle your daughter.

    A mainstream therapist is going to get absolutely nowhere with a borderline because their thinking is different and needs correction and most tdocs have no clue how to show them their thinking errors and how to regulate their emotions, which change moment to moment (it's like minute-to-minute bipolar!).

    This book is expensive, but in my opinion it is worth it if you are dealing with a person who has borderline and if her therapist isn't much good. Of course, it has to be frustrating as hello that the therapist is insisting something happened that did not happen. Therapy is simply the newest ideas of the day and they change quickly. AT this time, nobody knows for sure what causes borderline, including your daughter's therapist. Here's the link:
  9. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not



    Mental illness runs in my family - PLUS my daughter had been found to have very high levels of lead in her blood as a small child. I DO believe that there must be some combination of heredity and environmental factors (such as the lead exposure) leading to her issues.

    I would love to get her into a DBT program, but you're right....there's no such thing as DBT at the County MH clinic.

    I will check out that book.

    Thank you!
  10. Methuselah

    Methuselah New Member

    Hi Daisy. I'm sorry you are facing this possibility. Our family lives in constant panic, too. difficult child 1's remorselessly tells lies of neglect and sexual abuse to everyone, including CPS, so I SO understand your fears and concerns.

    I've said before my experience with behavioral medicine has killed my faith in the profession. If the therapist is going in with a preconceived cause without talking to her, she will manipulate everything your daughter says to fit it, which is dangerous to your family, her ex boyfriends, male teachers, pastors, etc. If I were you, I would document every false allegation your daughter has ever made, whether sexual in nature or not, so you can establish a pattern. Also, I would gather as much information about Borderline (BPD) and its emerging theory of a genetic basis like this one in Science Daily: Educate yourself to protect yourself. Science is finding out more and more that personality disorders and psychopathy lie in genetics not environment.

    I hope your family will one day find peace.
  11. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Daisy, this may or may not be an option for you, depending on what it is you want next, but when I have wanted something it appeared I couldn't have in the ordinary way, I sometimes simply called up and asked if the person was willing to negotiate with me. I once did this with a therapist in the town I was living in then. He was known to be excellent but he was also very expensive and I didn't even have insurance then. I called him up, told him my situation, explained I was a single mom, told the truth, and that I was committed to doing whatever it took to do therapy with him. He made an appointment for me and we talked and (GOD BLESS HIM) at the end of the meeting, he said, "how about $5.00?" I saw him for 3 years and he was one of the best therapists I've ever had and he REALLY helped me. Since that time I've utilized the concept of "life is a negotiation" and often have simply asked for what I want, and asked what I could do to make it happen. There is also a trade, bartering, etc. It doesn't always work, but really, you would be surprised at how often it works, it just doesn't occur to us to ask.
  12. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I don't believe for a minute that Borderline (BPD) is always caused by some childhood abuse. My difficult child was diagnosed with that when she left the substance abuse treatment center and she has had absolutely no abuse in her life, other than her abusing us. I would be very angry at a therapist who suggested this had to be the case and that alone would tell me the therapist was not effective. I am going to go back to the book I Hate You, Don't Leave Me and reread what they say about it, but I know they did not say it was always a result of abuse.

    Where are you moving to?

  13. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    We are only moving about 3 miles. Same town - but just over the county line. The state MH dept is really strict about county residents being served by the correct County MH office. So as soon as the 1st county learned we were moving over the line, they acted like we had the cooties or something...
  14. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    After all the baloney we've experienced? I hear you only too well...

    This is a good idea... I have some documentation about the made-up stuff - but I could put together more...
  15. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    That is a really good idea...

    My only hesitation is that difficult child is so resistant to everything. I'd feel bad asking someone to take on a really challenging kid who has absolutely no intention of cooperating.

    I'm just trying to look at the therapy as putting in my time until she turns 18.
  16. Methuselah

    Methuselah New Member

    An informative site on Borderline (BPD) is Their support forum is a good read.

    Sadly, until she wants to get better, she won't. So sending her to therapy is unlikely to help her but will most likely place your family in harm's way. been there done that. Oh, I so know this predicament. We stopped taking the difficult children because of this. The only thing that ever changed was the size of our bank account. They just honed their skills in manipulation and lies. :-/ Should they ever ask to go, we'll take them. It won't happen, of course. One would have to be the slightest self-aware for that to happen, and self-awareness isn't a part of their personality.
  17. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    DF, I'd forgotten about the prior investigations. That will only help you, because they found nothing.

    More :hugs:... I hate rigid thinking.
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, I don't believe all therapists are bad. The ones I don't like are the talk therapists who dwell on the past and then form their own ideas about what is causing this or that. I love the Cognitive therapists and Dialectal Behavioral Therapists because their sole focus is on changing the way a person perceives situations in very practical ways. I may add helpful. However, I wanted very much to change and improve so I was highly co operative. I hear this is rare for somebody on the borderline spectrum, but I wanted to be different. If you kids don't want to change, even the best therapy will not help. CBT and DBT and all therapy requires extremely hard work, BUT it can be done!
  19. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    A therapist who decided --before meeting your daughter -- that she was abused as a child is a BAD match. I would call the supervisor and explain your concerns and ask for reassignment. Of course, it might not be 12 appointments if difficult child is non-complaint....
  20. keista

    keista New Member

    First (((((HUGS)))) one year to go, huh?

    Anyway this Borderline (BPD) caused by abuse thing sound very 'chicken and the egg' to me. If you must deal with this therapist, ask for the basis of her theory. Research, studies, evaluations etc. I'm sure it's all published work.

    Here's my problem without knowing all the research details. How are they finding out these Borderline (BPD) ppl were all abused? From the BPDs? Surprise! They lie! From their families? Really? Mom and/or Dad copped to abusing Jane Borderline (BPD) Doe? Yeah, one can rat out the other, but still. And then, gotta find out what percentage of BPDs were abused. I find it highly unlikely that any study would find 100% ppl with Borderline (BPD) were abused.

    As mentioned before, definitely document all the false allegations. Might even want to bring them up to therapist from the get-go.