Re: My 5 year old is going to be kicked out of KINDERGARTEN!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by doelly, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. doelly

    doelly New Member

    Hi! I have a 5 year old son who has had behavior issues for many years now. In preschool at age three and four he would hit kids for no reason, push, shove, cut in line etc. He seemed to get better in preschool during this last year (when he was four) but still had much of the same problems, just seemed to be less often (not everyday, but at least once a week...a three-day preschool week). Now we have just started kindergarten. We have had two and one-half days so far and the teacher has already sent me home a note regarding his behavior and I had a long talk with her on Friday. Seems my son pokes other kids, has to have his own way, takes toys from others and has been saying naughty words like "poop" and "fart-pants", etc. He also tends to get into other children's faces to talk with them and demands an immediate answer to his questions when talking with others. These are all things we battle with at home as well and I am at my wits end as to what to do to correct the problem. We give him time outs, take toys away, send him to his room, make him go to bed early...but no concenqence seems to hurt bad enough to make him change his behavior...which is also what his teacher has said. My son just turned 5 June 27th and I asked the teacher if she feels he's too immature for school and she'd like to wait until Labor Day to decide that. He wants friends so badly but my fear is that we are only two days into the school year and we have already started off on such a bad foot. The kids are all turned off by his behavior and don't want to play with him. They also see that he is "the bad kid" in class and he's getting that stigma. He really has never had many friends who want to play with him over the years.
    I've taken him to a psychologist but only recently so we've only had one visit with her. I feel like he exhibits the impulsivness' of ADHD but not the attentiveness and he really can sit still and quiet when needed. I don't know what to do. I sit home on pins and needles everyday he's in school because I'm afraid of what his behavior has been and what I'm going to hear when I pick him up. Does anyone have any advice.
  2. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Welcome doelly. I am so sorry you had to find us but am so glad you have. The parents here have so much experience dealing with pretty much everything imaginable. If you stick around, you will learn a lot and keep your sanity too. I know they have helped me keep mine.

    There could be several things going on. He may just be immature. He may also have something else going on that is causing him to act this way and conventional "discipline" isn't going to work, at least not until they are identified. Is the psychologist doing any evaluations to determine potential diagnoses? Has he/she given you and the teacher any questionaires to fill out? If not, ask that they do ASAP. If they say they are not able to do that, find someone that can. A Child Psychiatrist, Developmental Pediatrician, or a Neuropsychologist are the most qualified to help you identify what might be going on.

    It sounds like he is impulsive and has difficulty with social skills. You need to think carefully about waiting another year for kindergarten. I don't necessarily agree with keeping kids back but since he could benefit from another year to mature more AND it could give you time to figure out what is going on BEFORE you start the school nightmare many of us have been through. Personally, I would take the year to try to get a handle on what is going on and get his behavior to a better place before he is given a "reputation" that will never go away. But, that is just my opinion.

    There is a book I found that was extremely helpful in dealing with my son's behaviors effectively is "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It has helped me learn to understand the WHY of my son's behavior to deal with it effectively.

    Again, welcome to our "family". Weekends are a little slow here but I promise others will be along.
  3. doelly

    doelly New Member

    Thanks so much for the reply! I feel like I have no place to go and nowhere to turn so I'm so glad to have found this site!!! All my friends have kids who misbehave...but it's all "normal" issues...not like my son!!! It's almost like he is so deprived of attention...he wants so much attention no matter if it's good or bad. I'm at home now and more then ever is he getting attention so I don't understand. When the teacher handed me the note on friday about his behavior he made a huge scene in front of everyone wanting to know what the note said...and he knew it was a note about him being bad!!!! I just don't get it!

    No the psychologist did not give me anything to fill out. After reading a lot of what has been posted I'm thinking I'm going to seek out someone else for him. I found a psyc who specializes in peds psyc, ADHD, behavior issues and parental discipline education. He's not a neuro-phyc but do you think these specialties sound ok to start???
    I think you might be right about keeping him out one more year. We are planning on moving out of this school district after this year so if we can get these issues under control he'd have a fresh start.

    Thank you!!!! I hope to see you on here again soon!
  4. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Be careful using someone that "specializes in ADHD" as they can often see it everywhere. It's a start, yes, but if your mommy gut says he's off, listen to it. Also ask the school about testing him and request an IEP in writing.
  5. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    I agree with HaoZi. Anyone that "specializes" in one particular diagnosis is NOT a good choice, at least not until you know that's what he has.

    This scares me even more as, to me, this implies "willful" behavior and teaching parents to "break" the kids' behaviors. You need diagnostics.
  6. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Peds psyc and behavior issues as spcialties are positive - but the other two are red flags to me..

    - specializing in a particular diagnosis = that's the diagnosis you're likely to get, whether it fits or not
    - parental discipline education = psychiatrist is going to blame your parenting skills

    Better off with pediatric psychologist and/or child behavioral specialist - or the good old neuropsychologist that so many on the board have used (if you have access).

    If you're moving school districts FOR SURE before the next school year, then you can afford to take a few weeks or months to make the decision to pull him this year - the kids in the new school won't know about his partial year. But if there's any chance at all that you're staying - the decision has to be made really soon.
    When is his birthday? Is he a late-year baby? If so, it helps with holding back - he'll still be with same-aged peers. If he's an early-year baby, it will come back to haunt him later if he's the oldest in the class all the time.
  7. doelly

    doelly New Member

    Those are very good points which I didn't think about. The original psyc I took him to does see both children and adults but the psyc I was referring to with the specialties is associated with the childrens hospital which I thought would be a better fit. Maybe I would be best just seeking out a "child psychologist" rather than one with any other sub-specialties.
  8. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    If it's a CHILDREN'S hospital, they might have a neuropsychologist. If not, they might know where you can find one. These specialists do extensive testing personally and give diagnoses as well as recommendations to help. They are preferred. A GOOD child psychiatrist (without "specialties") would also be a good choice.

    As for school, since his birthday is the end of June, it won't do any harm to hold him back now. You don't want HIM to get any bad ideas about school.
  9. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Also available through some children's hospitals is a child behavioral assessment team - the advantage being the "team" approach, where he will be seen by multiple specialists who when put their heads together to come up with the dxes and recommendations.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    If he turned 5 in June - then he is probably legally required to be in Kindergarten (depending on your local laws) - and/or will be required to start grade 1 next year, with or without kindergarten.
    THAT is a catch-22.

    He might need an early-intervention kindergarten or something - but I'd be wary of just "waiting a year".
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    If you live in the US, definitely go to a neuropsychologist. I don't trust professionals who specialize in one diagnosis...they do tend to see it in all their kids and are often not schooled on other disorders. NeuroPsychs test in every area, including can find them at children's hospitals and university hospitals. Often there is a waiting list, but it is worth it.

    How were his early milestones? Did he have any speech problems? Motor skill issues? Trouble with eye contact? Does he freak out at loud noise (cover his ears) or refuse to wear certain things or not play with toys? Or does he play inappropriately with toys such as lining them up or taking them apart?

    In the US, a child has to start school by age six. I held back two of my boys who had late birthdays. However, it sounds like testing and figuring out what is wrong may be more helpful, although another year at home can't hurt. He is unlikely to be a "typical" child even if you hold him back. Best to evaluate him and get him help, including an IEP through school, whether or not he goes to kindergarten. They have to start interventions at age three.
  12. doelly

    doelly New Member

    Hi All! So this week marks the first full (real) week of school. Last Friday when I talked with my difficult child teacher I asked her if she thought he was too imature for school. She thought maybe and wanted to wait until Labor Day to see how things go. When I dropped him off today she said she mentioned the situation and the possible transfer back to pre-school to the pre-school teacher and the principal. Now, last week I was very upset, crying, emotional and think I needed some time to process our conversation...because now I feel as though she's pushing for this move and will end up not giving my son a fair chance. I called the principal and talked with him and he doesn't think 2 weeks is enough time to evaluate the situation. (I agree!)
    I didn't mention that he is going to a private school and that was for this have him in a classroom on 11 kids...a lot of one on one attention from the teacher. We moved our 2nd grader to this school (who does perfectly fine at behavior issues) just so my son would have the best opportunity to succeed.

    Today I made an appointment with a child psychiatrist. We go next Monday and actually see an intake counselor first. I hope we can get some answers soon. This psychiatrist is not the one I mentioned earlier associated with the childrens hospital unfortunately. We are planning on building a house and moving an hour away from where we currently are so my husband was afraid to get established with a psyc that would end up being 2 hours from home if we went with the original plan. I'm just on pins and needles waiting to pick up my son from school!!!
  13. Free Kittens

    Free Kittens New Member

    Hi Doelly

    Welcome aboard

    My Beanz is 5 as well with lots of behavior issues. She attended preschool with the public school last year and, by age, should be in kindergarten this year. She was not ready. She has, and had last year as well, an IEP and received speech therapy, physical therapy and occupational therapy along with her regular pre-school stuff. In my area no private school can offer that on site.
    This year we are doing a combination preschool and kindergarten with all her other services at school. Maybe next year she will catch up enough to go on to first grade but if she doesn't and needs a full day kindergarten for a year, that is fine with me.

    Hope your psychiatrist appointment goes well.
    Free Kittens
  14. michie87

    michie87 New Member

    Just a really good pediatrician can help emensly. There are special schools that do extensive testing and will even help school them sometimes. Here in Arkansas its called the schimettings center. You might want to try and find one of them. Also I really strongly reccomend the book "ADHD: The great misdiagnosis by Julian Stuart Haber, M.D., FAAP. It talk alot about what adhd really is and it also teaches you that there are several other medical things that have the exact same symptoms. To include, but not limited to: Bi-polar, terets, epilepsy, and depression. Also it teaches that usualy boys take the hyper side and girls take the slower side but they explain thats not always true. I took the hyper side. My son is in Kindergarten and we are going through the same issues. They also have alternative classes for more one on one help and if the child tests into that it could be very benificial. Plus if hes able to learn good behavirs now then he might not have to stay in the class more then kindergarten! The book also defines the diferent medicines and what each one does so if that ever has to come in to play then you might have a reference to go to. I found it to be a wonderful insite to ADHD and I learned alot! And I had it lol. Anyways I wish you the best of luck and hope you may find the right solution for you.
  15. lostandconfused2424

    lostandconfused2424 New Member

    I just read your postings and this is my first time on here. I too have the same exact thing happening. He has not gotten kicked out yet like he has in pre-k. Today he was kicked out of daycare/karate. He was cussing biting, kicking, growling! He was out of control. I do not know what causes this but I am feeling very distant to "my son" who right now I can honestly say does not act like my son. I feel very hopeless and sad and I do not know what to do. Please let me know if anything is working. I am a single Mom of 2 kids and if I keep missing work like I am I am not sure how much longer I can keep my job if there is no school or daycare??? I feel so trapped. I almost feel like this is a horror movie and we are being targeted by some evil force!
  16. grandma5704

    grandma5704 New Member

    hello. my first time also. it sounds like some of the cartoon character shows they have had on tv. maybe just repeating what he has seen on tv. my son and his wife watch a lot of stuff with their kids and never notice the things i do. double check and then discuss it.
    my reason for coming on here is i am a grandmother to two great little people. i however had non of the issues with my children that seem to be so prevalent now and honestly i do not know what to do. today the littlest one through such a tantrum at taking a nap my other son wanted to know why she was acting like a crack baby! i m not sure what that is except for how perplexed i was. that son has no children yet and do i not remember it or ? i do not recall even my one daughters tantrums ever being like that. oh and is this a girl thing because my sons weren't tantrum people...don't recall this help.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2011
  17. grandma5704

    grandma5704 New Member

    there are all kinds of reasons for children to have problems in school. most of them can be seen coming prior to starting school. some of them don't become obvious to anyone until they are placed in a structured setting, sometimes it it changing their setting too often or always having everything the same. if you feed a child the same five foods over and over they find it difficult to try new things. apply to school. these changes are difficult.
    the first time i was sent to kindergarten i was excited. then we moved...i walked home from school three times before i stayed there. i am still independent in my choices! sometimes you may have to find out what they are thinking. it usually works best if you talk to son or daughter while playing something together. think i will try that with the three year old. glad i was thinking out loud.
  18. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Welcome, you might want to start your own thread to introduce yourself. I'm sure the others will ask lots of questions like do you have custody? Are there any diagnosis? What kind of doctor did the diagnosing? What specific behaviors do you see?
  19. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Yes welcome to grandma5704 and to lost and confused. We have lots of suggestions and advice to offer - so to get the most out of our board power ( :) ) please each start your own thread so that we can help better.
  20. lruppert75

    lruppert75 New Member

    Have you had him tested for high levels of lead?