Reaching out just in case...

[BusynMember]

Sad for his betrayal.

How does bipolar and anxiety keep him from working? I have a bad mood disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder snd always worked. He obviously wants money. He is stealing it from you. And work is less scary than jail. Yet he risked going there and did.

Maybe its time to stop paying his legal bills. And I assume he is not refusing adequate help for his anxiety and depression. I wouldnt leave him a dime. You can buy him snacks and leave them in the kitchen.

Your son sadly has not learned. When they steal from us, it feels like such a betrayal. Its sad that he memorized your catd number to steal from you. He has a long way to go.

If he were mine, he probably would have three months to move out. Stealing and violence are on our family zero tolerance-if-you-live-here list. He in my opinion needs consequences

I feel so bad for you. Do something nice for you today you matter!!!

 

[Irish strong]

I so know you are right. Thank you for your message. I also have a long way to go! I have no family here except my successful, well behaved daughter who works and lives on her own. I am in. NAMI class that just started last week and really hope I gain more strength and knowledge. I blame myself for my stupid enabling. One day at a time. Thanks again.

 

[Echolette]

I just discovered after coming home from work, my son had a few new items. Of course he does not have a job as he is disabled by his anxiety and bipolar diagnosis. I leave small amounts of money for snacks etc. but certainly not enough for these items. I know he is not out stealing as he barely leaves the house and is scared to go back to jail. I have already hidden most credit cards at my office. Of course he heard me ordering food with a card and boy oh boy he locked that info down fast! Just checked my transactions...guess what? Yep. Had to close that card too. It breaks my heart as I have spent thousands of dollars to try to help him both with therapy, doctors and legal representation. Feel duped and hurt again.

Irish Strong,

You are welcome to post anywhere of course, but if you post on your own, new thread you might get more specific responses. Good luck with your son.

 

[Echolette]

Following up..

I did go back to the facility today, with two bags of clean clothes...some new (socks, underwear, and blue jeans in his size from Target) and a bunch from his brothers. I knew in my heart he wouldn't be there, and he wasn't. I left the clothes as a donation.

 

[Copabanana]

I knew in my heart he wouldn't be there, and he wasn't. I left the clothes as a donation.

You passed the baton. He was not there to get it. Somebody will be. I am sorry Echo.

 

[Echolette]

You passed the baton. He was not there to get it. Somebody will be. I am sorry Echo.

Yes, Copa, you are right. Maybe somebody got the baton today. That helps some.

This sounds just like me. And if you are thinking like me, you will also blame yourself if you DO it and he leaves...you will think, "Maybe if I hadn't made it so easy for him to leave, if he had to ask for donated clothes, he would have stayed...

Alb, I brought the clothes and it wasn't the reason he left. I didn't make it easy for him. In fact, I saw that he posted on Facebook (a link to Johnny Cash's song Folsom Prison) Friday morning, which most likely means he had already left by then (he as admitted Thursday afternoon. Anyway...my actions had no impact either way, I'm sure. There is definitely a lesson for all of us in that.

This year I started running with a group (nationwide) that runs with people who live in transitional housing, in recovery The deal is that the members have to make 90% of the runs (2-4 miles at 5:30 in the mornning 5 days/week), after which they can access things like help with resumes, head shots, job training, etc. Since I've been there (January) two people have gotten jobs with partner organizations, one of them a hotel at the airport. I think the message is "do the right thing each day and a lot of things will get better" and also "complete strangers will show up for you day after day. You should show up too."

That is my baton for now. I pass it to those runners early in the morning, in the dark and the cold. I show up for them in the hopes that they will show up for themselves. I pass the baton to some one else's son (my group is all men, although there are groups that run with women's homes as well). I hope my son takes a baton from some one else, one day.

Thanks, all, for your kindness and support.

Echo

 

[Copabanana]

my actions had no impact either way, I'm sure

Except to you and the person who got the kindness you left, selflessly, for another mother's son.

That is my baton for now. I pass it to those runners early in the morning, in the dark and the cold. I show up for them in the hopes that they will show up for themselves.

This is incredibly sad for me to read.

I showed up for my son, like you did for your son, Echo. My son who has been home with me or close to me for the better part of the past year, left today. I told him to. The kindnesses, the support and encouragement, had no effect that I can discern. Whatever my son does that is positive, he does for external influence and effect. To manipulate an audience. I am that audience. I could clap all day. It has no effect on him what so ever. Our sons do not show up for themselves. Until they do, what is there to say?

I am glad you posted Echo. I am glad you come back here to visit.

 

[Copabanana]

Echo. Would you be willing to share the name of the transitional housing/recovery organization, for which you run?

 

[Echolette]

Echo. Would you be willing to share the name of the transitional housing/recovery organization, for which you run?

Of course. It is called Back on My Feet. There are branches all over the country. It is very active in my city. I commonly see them at the road races up to and including the marathon in town. If the members run their bibs are paid for, and of course the volunteers come cheer for them like crazy. Its pretty heartwarming. Welcome to Back on My Feet | Back on My Feet

Echo

 

[Echolette]

My son who has been home with me or close to me for the better part of the past year, left today. I told him to.

Ah, Copa, I"m sorry to read this. I've been reading your posts since you joined the forum. I know how very hard that is for you.

Whatever my son does that is positive, he does for external influence and effect. To manipulate an audience. I am that audience. I could clap all day. It has no effect on him what so ever. Our sons do not show up for themselves. Until they do, what is there to say?

There is nothing to say.

Actually, I take that back. There are things to say to each other, so that we can work on keeping our lives, ourselves, our relationships, whole and good. That is where there are still things to say.

Echo

 

[Copabanana]

Echo. I checked the website. Do I understand correctly, that the Back on My Feet Organization does not itself run programs for the homeless in terms of housing or recovery? That what it offers is the support through initially the structure and support of the running and then, if they show up, they will work with the person to draw up an individualized program towards specific goals and support them with this?

It is not in my small City but it is in California, SF and LA, I think. I may contact them.

What are your thoughts about the program per se, beyond the running part?

I am very sad about my son. He is not getting it. He keeps thinking the changing comes in larger part through us. I am not saying he has not changed. But my help is reinforcing bad habits rather than motivating him to change for the better. The hope that by offering an incentive, a leg up, is trumped by his grabbing the cheese and escaping, resisting what he sees as the trap. Accountability and self-responsibility are the traps.

It is all very, very slow and very, very laborious. and very, very discouraging. Nothing "works" when you are dealing with another adult. Except he "works" me.

 

[Echolette]

Copa, yes, your understanding with Back on My Feet is correct. I think it is an amazing program, well beyond the running part. I knew about it for years and years before I joined..there are a lot of "do good" programs in running, and I was kind of tired of the whole concept...I felt like...how bout I just run and do good and keep them apart? PLEASE. But I started to feel more ready to deal with the homeless community, to do something, and after all the years and years of running it seemed like a new goal made sense.
I was hooked from day one.
A lot of it in my mind is the partner corporations, who are willing to hire from the program. And it makes sense to me that if some one will get up to run at 5:30 AM for months in a row they are probably ready to get up and get to work too. People in the program can see their peers succeed in ways that are logical. They get "mile credits" for running, for running in races, for volunteering. It builds community. My son misses community. He finds it with junkies and addicts under bridges and in squats, but it is toxic, ephemeral, based on addiction and instability and drama. Back on My Feet provides community that is always there, and based on a healthy, challenging activity.
The sticker is you have to be living in one of the residences they work with. That used to frustrate me because I always wanted them to somehow take my son in (my other kids have all run in races ranging from 5K to marathons with me, and its been good for all of us). But that wasn't to be. In the end, I subscribed to "you can't help everyone, but everyone can help some one." So I showed up. I support it. Next week I'll be at the finish line of a local 5 mile race handing out medals to volunteers and members and regular old runners who like to run in road races. I've never done that before, but this is a race that benefits BOMF, so I'm in. I believe that at this time I've gotten more out of it than I've given. I once was lost, but now I'm found, right, Copa?
Anyway, I think its a great program.

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you Echo.

 

[Albatross]

I did go back to the facility today, with two bags of clean clothes...some new (socks, underwear, and blue jeans in his size from Target) and a bunch from his brothers. I knew in my heart he wouldn't be there, and he wasn't. I left the clothes as a donation.

Oh Echo, I don't know what to say except that I am sorry to read this.

I showed up for my son, like you did for your son, Echo. My son who has been home with me or close to me for the better part of the past year, left today. I told him to.

Copa, I am so sorry to read this too.

There is only so much "doing" we can "do." If it isn't sparking anything internal for them, there really doesn't seem to be much point in it. It just makes us feel worse. At least for me that is true.

Echo, that sounds like a great program. I can see why you are so drawn to it.

 

[Echolette]

A little while ago there was a thread about whether we really knew or children. I was reminded of that today...my son called me early this morning...he sounded fine. He paid some lip service to the usual litany of "I know I ed up" and said he was calling to let me know he was OK, and that I wouldn't be seeing him for a while but that he would check in from time to time so I knew he was OK. Lather rinse repeat. I get that call every time. I was completely unmoved.

10 minutes later I got a completely frantic call from his dad (my ex) saying our son had called him sobbing, was afraid for his safety, had taken meth during the night and his heart was racing...his dad was frantically trying to figure out how to get help.

Then I got an email from my son's public defender, who put his heart and soul into helping this young man...saying he had gotten a call from my son, and that he (the PD) was desperately trying to get his bed back at the treatment center. (I know from previous experience that this is not possible).

It seems to me that this is my son, the one I do not know, the one whose hallmark was always a sweet cluelessness, being manipulative. Stirring up drama and attention. Getting vulnerable people who care about him to jump through desperate hoops.

I am starting to have the uneasy feeling that I do know who he is, and that person is ugly. At least right now. I wonder how long that has been true.

I am OK. Dealing with the inner turmoil with all the experience I can bring to bear on dealing with the inevitable inner turmoil that our Difficult Child's bring upon us. It will pass. He will disappear for a while, and re-emerge wasted and remorseful, or arrested and remorseful, or dead. I'll figure out my new relationship with him when that happens. For now...he makes his choices. I make mine. I try to remove myself from the toxicity that is his life.

Ugh.

Echo

 

[Albatross]

Oh Echo, that is so tough. I don't know why they do that sort of thing, that acting differently depending on whom they are talking to. Crying for attention or in mortal danger to one person, kool as Kool-Aid to another. And why do they think it won't catch up with them?

Not that it matters, but is this his way of showing concern for you, by telling you he was OK?

My son once kept me on FB messenger for close to an hour, deep in the depths of hopelessness and woe, while I put my evening on hold to try to lift his spirits. In the middle of angst up to my elbows and my pithiest motherly sayings, he messages, "friend's taking me out for a burrito. Talk later."

So why put us through the motions? I just don't understand what they are looking for when they tailor their interactions like that. Are they trying on hats? Being the person they assume we see? Adding drama for the sake of the buzz? Infuriating, regardless. I am so sorry you and the others in his orbit are caught up right now.

 

[Copabanana]

It really is a head scratcher. I think there is compartmentalization going on in them. I think they area always trying to negotiate their best deal.

Like on Priceline where the price chopper picture comes on, with the words, we're busy negotiating the best deal for you.

I think your son was busy negotiating his best deal--but he knows from experience which hotels will price chop more. You have taught him Echo that you have no give, based upon his sad and hysterical (and lying) words. That you stay centered in your own truth and hold your boundaries. Your hotel gives no stellar deals. You hold your prices and your amenities steady.

This example is proof positive how detachment works. You hold steady state and he draws upon that piece of himself, that compartment, where empathy and accountability resides. Because he can be that person. and that is the person you insist upon, in your interactions. The others, his father, the PO, have not learned that lesson.

I think your son is at heart the person he shows you--but he is also the other people, too, depending upon who he can "work". It is like M tells my son over and over again: the only one on whom your lies work is on you. You're the only one who believes them. You are cheating yourself.

When you think about it, this is what character is, (and its absence.) Not psychoanalytic character--but that too, maybe)--but I prefer to think about it as character in the sense that is built throughout the lifetime as personal accountability, responsibility, integrity and consistency.

Your son is very young, still. His male brain is probably one of those that do not begin to begin working that good, until age 27 or 28. I have seen it with my own eyes. The change from one year to the next. How more cylinders begin to work and they catch a clue. If they live that long.

When your son is challenged to be his best self, he can do it. It is just that he still prefers (or feels he must) rely on his bag of tricks.

What real choice do you have, but to let him be, insist upon integrity with you...and let him go to do his thing....

My stomach is in knots. I feel like my guts churn acid. I am back in bed. I am desolate. That is the alternate. I do not recommend it.

 

[Copabanana]

There is only so much "doing" we can "do." If it isn't sparking anything internal for them, there really doesn't seem to be much point in it. It just makes us feel worse. At least for me that is true.

My son, like Echo's and your own, it seems, Albatross--sees life opportunistically. He sees stuff changing based upon WHAT OTHERS PRESENT TO HIM or offer to him.

It is not that he lacks autonomy or a clear sense of what he wants--it is that he believes that what he wants should be arrayed in front of him, kind of like a buffet. While he feels free to fill his plate as he wishes, and complaining about the limited menu items.

How they are inadequate to his needs. And then he does not want to pay and should not have to. Because after all, he WANTED and NEEDED other more important things. BETTER things. (Like marijuana) And after all--it is YOUR JOB to lay out the buffet.

And after he has eaten it all up (and left a mess) he decries how worthless it really was. And will not pay. After all, he has other, more important priorities.

 

[Albatross]

My son, like Echo's and your own, it seems, Albatross--sees life opportunistically. He sees stuff changing based upon WHAT OTHERS PRESENT TO HIM or offer to him.

I think they see themselves as autonomous without understanding what that means.

My son is home now, sober, working a job he loves. We are optimistic but trying to stay realistic, just taking it day by day.

I am trying to remember what autonomous means for me emotionally; that is, to not wrap my heart up in his decisions.

He told me the other day, when asked why he went so far off the rails, that he was determined to show everybody that he didn't have to live his life the way he was "supposed to."

I think we all go through that phase to some extent when we are young. But without any tools and his impetuousness, he became the "rebel without a clue," as the old Tom Petty song goes. The worse it got for him because of his bad decisions, the harder and more humbling it was for him to walk it back.