Really needing some motherly advice...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by summertimehelp, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. summertimehelp

    summertimehelp New Member

    Hello everyone,I am a mother of a beautiful 4 year old son. I am also a single mom from WV. My son has brought me to wits end..I have had severe problems with his behavior since age 1 from breaking an entertainment center in half to slapping his teacher in the face. I started my son in Pre-K this year at our public school after being in a christian based school.I also have a 9 year old daughter that he tends to be down right mean to. I have tried to do everything from the "typical" punishments to the whatever just do it mode.I have talked to doctor after doctor that does not want to help me because he is so young. I finally found a doctor that would at least do the testing for adhd and found that he felt that my son had ODD as well as ADHD and possibly personality disorders.My son has now been in his PK class for 1 and half months, I have been called to school 2 times and he has spent most of his time in the office.He has spit in a girls face because she was in his seat, he has urinated on the wall because "my boogers told me to", he has not once but two times smaked his teacher in the face, he has pushed kids off the bus.And everything we do ends up in a fight.I can not seem to get the support from the school in the discpline "because kids will have bad days" and"he is a good kid just having a bad day". And the bad thing is he thin ks it is funny! I am sorry but this is not acceptable for me. I have been trying to get help for him since he was 2 and I am getting no where fast.Can someone please give me some advice, WHAT DO I DO NEXT????
  2. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    First, welcome to the board.

    Second, RUN, not walk, away from the professional who suggested possible personality disorders in a 4 year old! OMG! Way, way, way, way too young to even be thinking along those lines. Most professionals won't even consider diagnosis'ing (diagnosing) personality disorders until one is 18 years old.

    Next, I would recommend an evaluation by a neuropsychologist. You may need a referral for insurance purposes. If so, see if you can get your pediatrician to put that through. A neuropsychologist does intensive testing (6-12 hours). You may also consider a developmental pediatrician or a multi-disciplinary evaluation. Info for that is on the FAQ board.

    Has the SD (school district) done any testing for an IEP (Individualized Education Plan)? If not, you may want to post on the Special Education board on this forum for help with that.
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Welcome summer,

    Glad we are here for you, and that you found us, but so sorry that you need us. Often we are a place parents find when feeling absolutely desperate.

    Please excuse any typos, I have some hand/neuro problems right now.

    It certainly sounds like you have a challenging child. We refer to the child who brought us to the board as difficult child or "gift from God". Personally, for me this is a reminder that no matter what the hardships, each child is truly a gift from God. Other parents look at it differently, but that is up to the individual.

    As far as school, you need to write a letter asking the school to do an evaluation of your child and send it certified mail. There are sample forms in the Special Education archives that will make this easier. The letter must be sent certified because this puts a timeline in place. After the request, the school has a certain amount of time to get the evaluation done.

    I am not sure what kind of doctor you are taking your son to. Many of our children require a number of different docs. therapist is a psychologist or therapist, NOT a doctor with an MD. They do therapy, and many kinds of therapy are available. psychiatrist is a psychiatrist, doctor with an MD who treats mental illness.pediatrician is pediatrician, or your child's regular doctor. Neuro is neurologist, or brain doctor. Developmental pediatrician is a doctor with additional years of schooling to help children who develop differently. I know our devel pediatrician was one of my favorite (and htemost helpful) of the docs we saw.

    Our kids are not easy to diagnose. It is pretty common to have a hard time finding what the correct diagnosis is. ADHD/ADD is pretty common for a first step. Be very much aware that a wide variety of mental illnesses and developmental disorders are often diagnosis (diagnosed) as ADHD.

    ODD is more of a set of behaviors that is a SYMPTOM of other problems. Usually it does not stand by itself, esp in one so young. It can be very hard to treat, esp if you are trying to treat these behaviors with-o finding out the underlying cause.

    Most kids do not want to behave badly. The nature of the beast is to please, but our kids ahve things that get in the way. Proper treatment can make a huge difference.

    As for help in the immediate, first be aware that your son may need parenting methods that are NOT typical, or what we were raised with. Spanking, esp, seems to universally not work. For my son I could have beat him bloody on a daily basis and it would have changed NOTHING, unless it made things worse.

    I have a few books to suggest, please at least look at them in the library or bookstore. The Explosive Child, by Ross Greene is a new way to approach parenting, tailored to our kids. It helps us "pick our battles" so to speak. Love and Logic Parenting for Early Childhood is a fave of mine, more indepth look at it can be had at . This is close to my heart because my husband thought it made sense, and getting him on board was a real turning point. The Bipolar Child, by Dmitri Papalous is a bible for many parents. (more on this below). The Out of Sync Child and The Out of Sync Child has Fun by Kranowitz are good for exploring sensory integration problems (very common in some of our kids).

    I know bipolar seems scary, and it is. But the proper treatment of WHATEVER you are dealing with will help make life better for all of you, so exploring this may be helpful. Children don't show bipolar the way adults do, and this book is very detailed and helpful.

    Are you trying medications at all? (no right answer, just wondering), who has made the diagnosis of ADHD, and what all are you trying?

    If you can, go to the My Stuff button on the top and go to profile, and make a profile for us. It helps us keep things straight, and that way we can make more useful suggestions and ask more intelligent questions. Also, go to the general archives to learn about abbreviations, docs, etc... It would be a big help to you if you go to the archived thread about Parent Report. This is a document you take to all doctor appts, and it can help you make sure that you give the doctor all the info needed.

    I hope that you come back to see us soon!

  4. summertimehelp

    summertimehelp New Member

    Thank you for responding so quick, the doctor that did the testing deals with alot of kids with adhd however he is just a reg doctor because my sons pediatrician would not test him. I have talked to the school about getting him evaluation, and they are supposed to be working on it.I also have an appointment for him next Fri for a psyc far as medications I can't even get help to find out what medications he could take to help, I have literally called every number around and no one will help and I am afraid that the pshyc, will end up backing out.He has not been fully diag. with anything as of yet but I really wish that someone would help me with him.Also I am running away thanks for that I am just so lost and scared, I look forward to speaking to you all again soon...
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I would also run from the guy who said "personality disorder." Rather than seeing a regular therapist I'd take this child, if he were mine, for a neuropsychologist exam. It's very intensive and much more developed than just doing talk therapy, with usually doesn't uncover the reason your child is behaving in an ODD way. ODD rarely stands alone. I have a few questions.
    1/Do you have any psychiatric problems on the family tree on either side? Any substance abuse?
    2/How was his early development? Talk? Eye contact? Does he know how to behave with his peers? Is he affectionate? Any sensitivities to food, clothing, change?
    3/What sort of things set him off?
  6. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Good Morning and welcome to the site!

    You have been given some good advise. I know that when a poster first arrives and needs help, it can be a little overwhelming to get so much information. I'll not add to that other than to say the book recommendations are important and so is your insistance for further testing by pediatric specialists in the form of a neuropsychologist or developmental pediatrician. Check with your local Children's Hospital or local teaching unniversity - they can usually help.

    I'm glad you have found your way here so you can feel less alone. Sometimes discovering "we are not the only one dealing with this" can be a life line.

  7. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Welcome Summertime, I know this is really overwhelming right now. I agree that a more thorough evaluation such as with a neuropsychologist or developmental pediatrician would be appropriate. You would need to pursue this with your pediatrician or try to make that appointment on your own after finding out who your insurance covers.

    If you put your request to the school district director of special education IN WRITING and be sure it's delivered using certified mail, it will kick in legal time lines and they will only be able to put you off for that length of time. If you made your request verbally then there's no proof of your request. Follow up with a letter and things should start to happen.
  8. tired Cheryl

    tired Cheryl New Member

    Hi, Summertime:

    Welcome. I am so sorry for you. I have a young , male difficult child myself that has many similar traits. He is also very mean to his older sister.

    I experienced the exact opposite with the three private preschols that my son attended. They would always make us pick him up when his behavior was out of control and they were constantly asking us what to do to control him. I had no magic answers. His last school would not even consider keeping him while we tried a new medication.

    So, I do not have any advice on the school. Are you happy with them otherwise? Does he appear to be learing? Doing better with other children? Do you think the school is making his behavior worse?

    You have gotten great advice about neuropsychologist evaluations and books, etc. Please think about these seriously. in my opinion, the problems with your son will only get worse if things do not change. It usually takes a combination of a good diagnosis, therapy, a good school, medications, parenting techniques. As they say, "There is no magic bullet" but there can be improvement that will make a big difference in all of your lives.

    Please keep us updated. WE really do care and understand.

  9. summertimehelp

    summertimehelp New Member

    Thanks again for the info all has given. My difficult child is affectionate but he tends to change on demand. He loves to cuddle but then can turn around and smack me in the face.His father is a recovering addict he also has a severe anger problem.He is in jail right now because of his temper.He was diagnosied with ADD as a child and his sister is still being treated at the age of 43 for ADHD.On my side of the tree we have bipolar and manic depression.His early stages were pretty easy he doesn't make and keep eye contact his speech is not clear and I have looked at a speech therapist. He is very intelligent and learns very easy.He interacts well with other children if one of 2 situations occur,1 being he is the boss and only him, or 2 it is in the first 5 min of meeting. Yes I do beleve that the school is making this worse because it is almost like t hey are trying to make excuses for his behavior. I have tried the teaching schools as well as his pediatrician and can not get any where. His pediatrician just keeps saying to do counseling. I don't know where to look to find a number for a neropsh and he gets a medical card from the state will that matter???
  10. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    There is a limit to how effective counselling can be for a very young child who may also have language deficits.

    ADD & ADHD are often misdiagnoses of other conditions. Try and nag the doctor into a referral; tell him that you want him to be proven right. If the referral leads you to a confirmation of what the doctor has insisted, then great. But just to be on the safe side, and to stop you nagging... a speech pathologist and a neuropsychologist wouldn't go amiss.

    And if it turns out that the doctor is wrong - tell him you won't crow about it, just be grateful for the chance to be assured.

  11. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    As far as looking for a neuroped, call your peditrician's office and ask them for a referral for one. If that does not work, call your local children's hospital, if you have one. Another option is a local teaching university's psychiatric department. Still another option is your local mental health department.

    If all that fails, there is always the yellow pages!

  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Our Medicaid covered the neuropsychologist because he accepted it. Many won't. To avoid that, check with a Children's or University Hospital. Almost all of them take Medicaid, therefore your son will be covered. You have some mood problems in the family, that should be watched. He also has some Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) traits--NeuroPsychs are good at finding neurological problems. I don't think it's only ADHD, but I'm not the neuropsychologist. Good luck :smile:
  13. summertimehelp

    summertimehelp New Member

    what is Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)?
  14. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) is Autism Spectrum Disorder.

    The lack of eye contact is a red flag.

    Also, bipolar and manic depression are the same thing. They no longer call it manic depression and use the term bipolar disorder.
  15. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Don't be spooked by the possibility of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) as a diagnosis. Attitudes and teaching techniques these days are very different. Some kids, especially the ones who seem really bright, often do really well. difficult child 3 is making amazing progress. His best mate, who is 9 years old, is autistic and in mainstream. He doesn't have an IEP, he doesn't have an aide. Mind you, I think the school would prefer it if he did, but he is doing well despite his parents' erratic management of his condition. His autism is mild, his mother's method of handling him is working as well for him as anything else. He does better on ADHD medications but currently she's run out and not gone to see the doctor to get more. difficult child 3 - can't function at all without his medications.

    Every kid is different and there is so much better understanding of autism these days, it's no longer a sentence of "chuck him in the bin and start again." Now it's being recognised that these kids are often far more capable, with support especially in their early days, than was ever credited. Some are more work than others but there are always rewards.