Really scared
- Thread starter Beta
- Start date
My husband has said several times recently, "I'm 62 years old. I probably have about 20 years left to live. I'm not going to spend them feeling guilty and depressed. I want to have some peace and joy in the time that I have left." I know he's totally right. When you look at it that way, it's a good perspective to have in responding to what's happening in our son's life and the verbal abuse he heaps on us.
Yes triedandtrue,
It is certainly the experience of myself and my son that different officers respond differently to the same situation. And our kids can be reactive. Some officers, and I've personally watched this, deliberately push their buttons. Truth is, and some have admitted this to me, that they're tired of dealing with my son and want him put away. I'm sorry if some of you find this difficult to believe. But when a cop says this kind of thing to you as a parent all you can do is use the self-restraint you've cultivated in dealing with your kids. Not only do you have to deal with your child's illness and/ or addiction, you have to fight with cops to get treatment for him rather than prison. This is not an indictment of police. Its just that they see my kid as a nuisance. A disproportionate use of their resources. They're not wrong. He is. But the only solution to some officers is prison. Their job description does not include mental illness identification. It is only obey or not obey law. Not obey means prison. Frankly, some see mental illness as an excuse. Again, maybe they're right. No one can say where the ability line is of a mentally ill person to control their behavior.
Triedandtrue, again, I have to defend the police social workers right to defend themselves with cops if they feel threatened. If that's why they called cops I understand.
Bottom line is why I started this tangent. Calling cops can have very negative results. May be necessary. But I personally think very carefully before I call cops. That is my suggestion to anyone with a difficult child
It is certainly the experience of myself and my son that different officers respond differently to the same situation. And our kids can be reactive. Some officers, and I've personally watched this, deliberately push their buttons. Truth is, and some have admitted this to me, that they're tired of dealing with my son and want him put away. I'm sorry if some of you find this difficult to believe. But when a cop says this kind of thing to you as a parent all you can do is use the self-restraint you've cultivated in dealing with your kids. Not only do you have to deal with your child's illness and/ or addiction, you have to fight with cops to get treatment for him rather than prison. This is not an indictment of police. Its just that they see my kid as a nuisance. A disproportionate use of their resources. They're not wrong. He is. But the only solution to some officers is prison. Their job description does not include mental illness identification. It is only obey or not obey law. Not obey means prison. Frankly, some see mental illness as an excuse. Again, maybe they're right. No one can say where the ability line is of a mentally ill person to control their behavior.
Triedandtrue, again, I have to defend the police social workers right to defend themselves with cops if they feel threatened. If that's why they called cops I understand.
Bottom line is why I started this tangent. Calling cops can have very negative results. May be necessary. But I personally think very carefully before I call cops. That is my suggestion to anyone with a difficult child
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Most people in prison are in some way mentally ill. In no way are people who keep breaking the law of the norm. That includes the very worst such as Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer. They were certsinly mentally ill. But they needed to be locked away.
Many people who are mentally ill dont break the law, do t go to prison. Ever. Many never tke drugs too.
If you are a danger to society in my opinion you belong away from others. Now I feel differently about non violent crimes that impacts nobody else.
Through my decades here on this forum, there are people whose kids who were in jail that I felt belonged there, and others whose kids were only a threat to themselves snd needed help. And I read a story of a poor mom whose daughter killed somebody (she only posted once and got no responses) and one whose minor son was shot and killed by a cop. I forgot the details but the poor mother eventually couldnt live with this and killed herself.
I dont know what I would do if any of my kids had faced jail or prison or were so far off the rails that the law was unvolved. I judge no ody for their choices regarding their beloved children.
I just wish the mental health system was not such a mess. And I dont think any non violent drug offender should ever go to jail
Many people who are mentally ill dont break the law, do t go to prison. Ever. Many never tke drugs too.
If you are a danger to society in my opinion you belong away from others. Now I feel differently about non violent crimes that impacts nobody else.
Through my decades here on this forum, there are people whose kids who were in jail that I felt belonged there, and others whose kids were only a threat to themselves snd needed help. And I read a story of a poor mom whose daughter killed somebody (she only posted once and got no responses) and one whose minor son was shot and killed by a cop. I forgot the details but the poor mother eventually couldnt live with this and killed herself.
I dont know what I would do if any of my kids had faced jail or prison or were so far off the rails that the law was unvolved. I judge no ody for their choices regarding their beloved children.
I just wish the mental health system was not such a mess. And I dont think any non violent drug offender should ever go to jail
Nights
1. You expect to sleep? Trazadone is my only chance. Wish I had it years earlier.
2. Quiet. Never. DVD always on (auto replay) with something mildly comical and comforting. Andy Griffith show lately. Vicar of Dibley. If I rouse my mind goes to it not my life. Comforting so right back to sleep. Somebody objects try face mask and ear plugs.
3. Routine. Warm bath. Warm milk. Turkey.
1. You expect to sleep? Trazadone is my only chance. Wish I had it years earlier.
2. Quiet. Never. DVD always on (auto replay) with something mildly comical and comforting. Andy Griffith show lately. Vicar of Dibley. If I rouse my mind goes to it not my life. Comforting so right back to sleep. Somebody objects try face mask and ear plugs.
3. Routine. Warm bath. Warm milk. Turkey.
RN0441
100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Nights were the worst. Always.
We have a sound machine. It helps. I like the rain sound. When I wake up in the middle of the night I just focus on that. It was under $20 from Amazon. Well worth it.
Yes Beta we cannot get this time that we have wasted in worry back. I am very resentful of that. It aged me and changed me. Forever. But most say I am a very happy and positive person and I am glad that I haven't lost all of me.
We remind our son that he has wasted 7 years of his life also. Wasted. I hope that he never forgets that. It's terribly sad to know that.
We have a sound machine. It helps. I like the rain sound. When I wake up in the middle of the night I just focus on that. It was under $20 from Amazon. Well worth it.
Yes Beta we cannot get this time that we have wasted in worry back. I am very resentful of that. It aged me and changed me. Forever. But most say I am a very happy and positive person and I am glad that I haven't lost all of me.
We remind our son that he has wasted 7 years of his life also. Wasted. I hope that he never forgets that. It's terribly sad to know that.
Elsi
Well-Known Member
I understand this well, and I think he's absolutely right. It's hard not to feel guilty enjoying things when I have kids who are homeless and struggling. But I've worked really, really hard for these things, and they don't seem to be putting in any effort towards their own lives at all. I can't carry multiple grown human beings on my back for my whole life. I can't sacrifice my own sanity, safety or future financial security for children who are not likely to ever be able to give anything back in terms of either care or material support. And yes, I have earned some time in my life to have peace and happiness. I didn't have it as a kid, I didn't have it in my marriage or while my kids were growing up, so if not now, when? Sometimes, having children like this feels like a lifetime prison sentence. I want to say but I've already served my time! And how sad would it be if we go through the rest of our lives without allowing ourselves to feel joy?
Yep. somewhere between 3 and 4 is my worst time. Sometimes I wake up earlier. I can usually get to sleep, but if I wake up in the middle, it's really hard to turn my brain back off. I've found an app called Brainwave that I use with headphones. You can select from either relaxing music or a variety of nature sounds or white noise options (I like ocean surf). And then it has something called "binaural beats" underneath that supposedly entrains your brainwaves to induce certain mental states, such as focused, relaxed, alert, or ready to sleep. I'm 95% sure that this part is 95% bunk, scientifically speaking. But it works for me, so, you know, whatever. I guess we all have to find the brain hacks that let us get through each day (and night).
Elsi
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. It's hard when that person is your child, but I can't argue here.
I've been on practically all sides of the prison issue, short of getting arrested or serving time myself. N was in prison/jail for nine months total, including 3 months in the rehab/reentry program. C was in jail for about 3.5 weeks awaiting trial for his DV and then was just sentenced to time served. S was arrested once but then released without charge. In none of those situations did I provide bail, pay for a lawyer, or otherwise put resources on the line to help them out of their self-made messes. My kids know I play hardball on this: you call me from jail, don't expect money or sympathy. Don't bother telling me it's not your fault, there's been a mistake, etc. This was an area where I felt firmly letting them avoid the consequences of their actions, or providing sympathy, would do more harm than good.
And I've seen this, too. In N's case, I witnessed first hand how he was treated by officers and the DA during the process. He was arrested on a drunk and disorderly and charged with resisting arrest and assaulting an officer. The assault was spitting, not punching or attacking with a weapon - immature defiance as much as anything. They gave him a felony for it. When they were bringing him into the courthouse, I witnessed officers and the DA laughing at and goading him and handling him very roughly. "What are you gonna do, boy? Gonna spit on me? Still feel like a tough guy?" and worse. Getting in his face, poking him in the chest. They were clearly trying to provoke another reaction where they could slap another charge. This was a couple years after his Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), which definitely impacted impulse control and logical thinking for him. I did inform his public defender and the courts about the Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). No one cared. It was really hard to watch. What good did it do anyone to treat him that way at that point, when he's literally in handcuffs and being compliant? What justice did it serve? Does spitting on an officer really deserve 9 months and a felony charge? I don't know. If I had gotten him a real lawyer, the outcome probably would have been different. But I didn't. I let him face it on his own, with the public defender, and take what was given to him. In the end, prison did him good. But I still don't agree with the way I saw him treated. His wrong doesn't justify their wrongs.
I have known many good and decent officers and I appreciate all of those who put their lives on the line to keep us all safe. I also know most of them are not trained to recognize mental illness or de-escalate situations with mentally ill people. And some are not temperamentally suited to handling these kinds of situation. Smithmom, I am so, so sorry for what you had to go through.
I suppose I'm also still a bit bitter that I had no protection or support from my own abuser, since he was one of them. The entire department knew and turned their backs. I can't quite forget that. Like all humans, cops are very motivated to cover their own rears and to close ranks and protect their own. When you're on the wrong side of that equation, bad things can definitely happen.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I was listening on the radio today a program of Ram Dass, the spiritual teacher/psychologist, where he spoke about aging. First he went into the challenges of physical aging, and then emotional--despair, depression, isolation, exclusion, loss, abandonment--and a string more of horrible words--all associated with the psychological aspects of aging.
And Beta, your description of the experience of the parent of a mentally ill child, touches all of the boxes.
It is no accident, then, that so many of us turn to spirituality for solace. Because there is really no earthly thought or thing or action that takes away the pain.
But there is faith. And there it is.
Elsi I feel for you too. There are some things that I will never forget. Not only police but a Dr who refused to even consider anything other than sociopath who should be in prison or criminal mental facility all his life. Its not just cops. Here the public defenders are just as bad.
On the other hand, I have been offered sympathy and kindness by officers. Particularly ones who saw us in these situations repeatedly. No, I also would never and have never lifted a finger or paid a penny to get him out of jail. They can be more sympathetic if they know that you are not enabling.
But again, my point that while many or even most mean well in all situations, I consider the police to be a danger to my child under certain circumstances. You and I have lived through many, many experiences with the police that thankfully most of the population hasn't. We have a different viewpoint.
And where is it ever said that police are professional? And a DA who would demean and goad a person? That's professional? Yes, the criminal justice system is sadly filled with ....non-professionals?
On the other hand, I have been offered sympathy and kindness by officers. Particularly ones who saw us in these situations repeatedly. No, I also would never and have never lifted a finger or paid a penny to get him out of jail. They can be more sympathetic if they know that you are not enabling.
But again, my point that while many or even most mean well in all situations, I consider the police to be a danger to my child under certain circumstances. You and I have lived through many, many experiences with the police that thankfully most of the population hasn't. We have a different viewpoint.
And where is it ever said that police are professional? And a DA who would demean and goad a person? That's professional? Yes, the criminal justice system is sadly filled with ....non-professionals?
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Wow. I read with sadness the accounts of experiences with police and public defenders. I'm so sorry for all who have experienced indifference and callousness and cruelty from police and the legal system. We ourselves have had just a little experience with the legal system when J was arrested last November for assaulting his roommate. Fortunately, his PD was intuitive enough to understand that there was mental illness going on and was sympathetic. She was finally able to get his charge reduced to "harrassment" and he served 3 months on house arrest. I did ask her if there was any way the court could require a mental health evaluation of him, and I think she was open to that, but we don't know if that was ever done because she finally told me that I would have to talk to J to get any information, and of course, he wasn't going to tell us anything. I do agree that there are many caring, professional police officers and those who have received some training in dealing with individuals with mental illness, but I also agree that many more are untrained and indifferent and will just throw someone into jail to resolve a situation. So contacting the police has to be something done after careful thought.
I made repeated attempts yesterday to connect with J and convince him to leave Denver and come here to us. He refused and became increasingly verbally assaultive, with one manic text after another. He did the same to my husband. My husband asked me to please just disengage from him for now and just wait to see what happens. We've done everything we know to do. I know that he's right, and I agreed. I feel like I'm moving toward acceptance of our loss of him, but it's not a steady, linear progression forward. It's more like "one step forward, two steps back." And again, the nights are hard. I too often awaken during the night and have a hard time getting back to sleep. I feel like I've aged five years in the last year, and I don't want to one day look back and regret the time I spent worrying and agonizing and setting us back financially, trying to help someone who hates us and doesn't want anything to do with us. So that's where I am this morning. I will be returning here often to read posts and to gain the resolve I need to stay firm.
I appreciate each and every one of you. Please know that your pain and suffering is not wasted, because I and others on this forum benefit from what you have and are going through. God's blessings to each of you as we walk this hard path together.
I made repeated attempts yesterday to connect with J and convince him to leave Denver and come here to us. He refused and became increasingly verbally assaultive, with one manic text after another. He did the same to my husband. My husband asked me to please just disengage from him for now and just wait to see what happens. We've done everything we know to do. I know that he's right, and I agreed. I feel like I'm moving toward acceptance of our loss of him, but it's not a steady, linear progression forward. It's more like "one step forward, two steps back." And again, the nights are hard. I too often awaken during the night and have a hard time getting back to sleep. I feel like I've aged five years in the last year, and I don't want to one day look back and regret the time I spent worrying and agonizing and setting us back financially, trying to help someone who hates us and doesn't want anything to do with us. So that's where I am this morning. I will be returning here often to read posts and to gain the resolve I need to stay firm.
I appreciate each and every one of you. Please know that your pain and suffering is not wasted, because I and others on this forum benefit from what you have and are going through. God's blessings to each of you as we walk this hard path together.
Elsi
Well-Known Member
Beta, it is such a hard journey, that road towards acceptance. That's where I feel I am coming with two of mine, acceptance that I have already lost them. If they come back to me, I will embrace it as an unlooked-for miracle, as one returned from the dead. But holding onto hope each day is just too hard.
Involving the police is always going to be a complex equation. Sometimes there is no choice. I don't think it's a simple as "good cops" and "bad cops," either. I think most of them can be both, depending on the situation. This is not a profession that lends itself to nuance. It tends to attract those already prone to black and white thinking, and I think most of their training reinforces that. They are the thin blue line, and lines divide. Good people worthy of protection on one side, bad people in need of punishment on the other. For many of them, the way that you are treated will depend on which side of the line you are perceived to be on. I have seen the same officer treat a grieving mother with incredible compassion and respect and then brag about ways he treated his arrests that I found deplorable and unworthy of the profession. No, not all of them participate in this kind of thing or think in this way - but a lot of them do, and most of the others will turn a blind eye.
I think this is something really important to keep in mind. You do not want to be perceived as one of "those" mothers - the enablers, the indulgers, the overly-involved pushy mothers who don't see their kids clearly. You don't want your kid dismissed with "well, I guess we know how he got this way." I really think they are harder on them if they have that perception. They need to see you as someone on their side of the line. A good mother who's done everything right and is reaching out to them for help for a kid who needs help.
I think disengaging right now is the right thing to do. Focus on taking care of yourself. You made your report and your plea. You have no further concrete information indicating he's an imminent threat to anyone. You've made it clear to him that you want him to come home and will offer help if he wants it. You are a good and loving mother and you have done anything it would be possible for anyone to do to help him. This is not your fault, and it is out of your hands now. Give it to God, and try to find your own peace.
Sadly I think you're right that it will always be a sadness in your heart. Keeping that sadness from invading your day, relationships, sleep etc is where disengagement helps.
I have had no contact with mine for some weeks now. Keeping track of dates, how long its been, would only be opening myself up to pain. So I don't know. I get on with my life and put that relationship and pain on hold in the back of my mind and heart. When it comes to the front, yes often in the middle of the night, I look for distractions. An old friend of mine who has lovely children, family and little idea of our tragedy has an expression. In short its, just put one foot in front of the other and keep moving. She applies this to minor annoyances. I apply it to major pain. Either way.
I have had no contact with mine for some weeks now. Keeping track of dates, how long its been, would only be opening myself up to pain. So I don't know. I get on with my life and put that relationship and pain on hold in the back of my mind and heart. When it comes to the front, yes often in the middle of the night, I look for distractions. An old friend of mine who has lovely children, family and little idea of our tragedy has an expression. In short its, just put one foot in front of the other and keep moving. She applies this to minor annoyances. I apply it to major pain. Either way.
