I just came back from spending a day with my older difficult child (he'll be 26 in October). We had a lovely day and I enjoyed every minute of it. It made me think of how he was when he was younger and I just wanted to tell you all, don't give up, you never know what will happen. He was a difficult baby, an obnoxious toddler, a horrible child, and a dangerous teen. I seriously thought by this time he would probably be dead or in jail. I was embarrased by him, had both things and words thrown at me, was ignored, laughed at, had my property destroyed, and was even physically attacked a few times. We tried school interventions, psychologists, psychiatrists, counselors, hospital admissions, and everything else we could think of. In the back of my mind I even considered an exorcism. HOWEVER, he matured. When he hit 21 I could begin to see some improvement. About that time he also, voluntarily, got on the "right" medication. The difference is like night and day. He holds a job and gets promotions and has become a manager where he works. His landlord loves him and does all kinds of things for him. He has friends. He has manners. He carries on intelligent conversations with both friends and strangers. He is thoughtful. His basic personality is not changed. He is still intelligent, a little grumpy at times, and he does not suffer fools gladly but neither does he attempt to murder them. He has a good sense of humor but no longer uses it to try to hurt people. I guess the point I want to make is, DON'T GIVE UP. Every time I am with him I see him applying things I tried to teach him and thought at the time I was failing with. I know we all here have not had this much success (my own difficult child 2 is a totally different story - not much success there yet) but if you had asked me when he was 8, or 10, or 12, or 16, or 18, I would have told you that he was a hopeless case who was headed for a horrible life. And here we are; he has grown into a young man whom I'm proud to call my son and am glad to have a chance to spend some time with. Keep plugging away; you never know when they are listening or how much they are absorbing or what the outcome will be. Good luck.