Since I left the airport on Wednesday I have been struggling with feelings of guilt or remorse, even though I feel that my son forced my hand and left me with no other choice. But today I realized that it wasn't guilt OR remorse, just deep sorrowful regret that it had to be this way. That did ease my conscience but did not ease the pain in my heart that I couldn't be with my son during one of the most challenging moments of his challenge-filled life. And I don't know how to cope with that. I think it's finally time to seek professional help because as loving and supportive as my husband is he's not a trained therapist and I don't want to overwhelm him with something he can't help me fix.
Regret vs Guilt
- Thread starter LauraH
- Start date
newstart
Well-Known Member
Hi Laura, I keep up with your posts and I feel your words and emotions. You really did not have a choice, your son made the situation the way it was because of HIS abuse. With facing surgery, how on earth did he have the energy to spit all the venom on you and your husband? If he was really in that much pain don't you think he would use his energy different? You, did the absolute right thing. I can almost bet your guardian angels held you back.
I know that husbands want to fix and help us fix things. Some things cannot be fixed and the only way to lessen the toxic abuse is to get distance and lots of it.
I have to completely stop talking to my daughter at times because she is so toxic to my health, especially my spiritual health. I go through regret and guilt and then back and forth just like you are right now.
I am getting older almost 65 now, daughter will be 40 soon. She still has her youth. My emotions are so raw from fighting this non stop battle with her. My husband and I think she will be off balance forever. Like you are with your son, she is my heart and soul. I love her deeply and strongly. She will 'S' on me each chance she gets, I know this yet my love for her is always there.
My husband does not know what to do, I do not know what to do even though I have read every book you can think of, been to many therapists, and thank God for this wonderful support group that I got the most help and support from.
It's times like this that I wish I could take a nice long walk with you, listen to your broken heart about your son and let you know that you are not alone in this that many of us are traveling this wicked hard road right along side of you.
I know that husbands want to fix and help us fix things. Some things cannot be fixed and the only way to lessen the toxic abuse is to get distance and lots of it.
I have to completely stop talking to my daughter at times because she is so toxic to my health, especially my spiritual health. I go through regret and guilt and then back and forth just like you are right now.
I am getting older almost 65 now, daughter will be 40 soon. She still has her youth. My emotions are so raw from fighting this non stop battle with her. My husband and I think she will be off balance forever. Like you are with your son, she is my heart and soul. I love her deeply and strongly. She will 'S' on me each chance she gets, I know this yet my love for her is always there.
My husband does not know what to do, I do not know what to do even though I have read every book you can think of, been to many therapists, and thank God for this wonderful support group that I got the most help and support from.
It's times like this that I wish I could take a nice long walk with you, listen to your broken heart about your son and let you know that you are not alone in this that many of us are traveling this wicked hard road right along side of you.
Thank you for your kind words. I love this forum and the people in it. I would be lost without you all. I often wish there was an in-person group locally like this but I have yet to find one...because the one thing we can't give each other here is what you said, hugs, walks, physical interaction. I will be going to Nar-Anon next week (they only meet on Thursdays) after a long hiatus. I'm still not totally convinced my son is using, but with that as apossibility it certainly won't hurt to reach out to that group. I'm also waiting for a call back from my son's former psychiatrist (back when he was a teenager). I hope that it wouldn't be a conflict of interest, since he treated my son 15 or 20 years ago. I chose him as my starting point because I always liked him when I took my son to his appointments, he seems genuinely vested in the wellbeing of his patients and doesn't just throw medications at them. And I gravitate to the familiar. So hoping that will work out, but if not I will continue the search.
We are in very similar boats. I am 66, my husband just turned 65 in September and my son is almost 33. You probably know that my husband is not my son's father, and it amazes me to see how concerned he is for not just me but for my son as well. It wasn't always like that. When we first started dating he wanted no part of the conflict and chaos between my son and me (can't really blame him there) but as time passed we became family, even before we actually tied the knot, and he started bonding with my son and trying to help him in any way he could.
The big difference between my son and me is that he seems not to have the ability to see things from anyone's perspective other than his own. He sees my decision to stay home as a betrayal and can't fathom that from my perspective it was the only thing I could do and why. But I am feeling not just my pain but his as well, and I understand the feelings of betrayal and abandonment, which makes my heart hurt even more.
Thanks for the "virtual walk". I visualized us walking by a serene lake with ducks swimming and lots of shady trees and it made me smile. Hugs and prayers to you and your daughter. I hope all of us dealing with estrangement from our children, regardless of who initiated it, will find resolution and reconciliation, or at least closure and peace.
We are in very similar boats. I am 66, my husband just turned 65 in September and my son is almost 33. You probably know that my husband is not my son's father, and it amazes me to see how concerned he is for not just me but for my son as well. It wasn't always like that. When we first started dating he wanted no part of the conflict and chaos between my son and me (can't really blame him there) but as time passed we became family, even before we actually tied the knot, and he started bonding with my son and trying to help him in any way he could.
The big difference between my son and me is that he seems not to have the ability to see things from anyone's perspective other than his own. He sees my decision to stay home as a betrayal and can't fathom that from my perspective it was the only thing I could do and why. But I am feeling not just my pain but his as well, and I understand the feelings of betrayal and abandonment, which makes my heart hurt even more.
Thanks for the "virtual walk". I visualized us walking by a serene lake with ducks swimming and lots of shady trees and it made me smile. Hugs and prayers to you and your daughter. I hope all of us dealing with estrangement from our children, regardless of who initiated it, will find resolution and reconciliation, or at least closure and peace.
newstart
Well-Known Member
LauraH, I saw our virtual walk, it was lovely. We did stop and get some healing tea and ran into a magician that put spells on all our children to make them straighten out for the rest of their lives.
I too know what betrayal and abandonment feels like, I think each and everyone of us have experienced it. I think our children know what they are doing and I think they play us like some sort of instrument. I think with the mental illness they have a huge dose of selfishness that comes with it and the world centers all around them.
At age 33, mental illness or not your son knows what happens when he acts bad. I think they do it especially to the ones that love them the most. The only reason my daughter is not doing it as severely as in the past is because I take long breaks from talking to her. After she does me dirty, she then calls me ugly names on Facebook. Having my own child slam me on Facebook is about as low and dirty as it gets especially when all the crap comes from her lies and bad living.
My health since last Christmas has not been the best, shingles, head cold, sinus infection and a good dose of depression. During the Christmas season my daughter was over here a lot. She was going through another break up with her creepy boyfriend. She was edgy and irritated and irritating to be around, I think my spirit got harmed just being around her. As I know your spirit would have been harmed going to Chicago. Just think that you saved your health by not going.
I hope that you will feel deep relief and deep peace of mind. This is what is prayed for you.
I too know what betrayal and abandonment feels like, I think each and everyone of us have experienced it. I think our children know what they are doing and I think they play us like some sort of instrument. I think with the mental illness they have a huge dose of selfishness that comes with it and the world centers all around them.
At age 33, mental illness or not your son knows what happens when he acts bad. I think they do it especially to the ones that love them the most. The only reason my daughter is not doing it as severely as in the past is because I take long breaks from talking to her. After she does me dirty, she then calls me ugly names on Facebook. Having my own child slam me on Facebook is about as low and dirty as it gets especially when all the crap comes from her lies and bad living.
My health since last Christmas has not been the best, shingles, head cold, sinus infection and a good dose of depression. During the Christmas season my daughter was over here a lot. She was going through another break up with her creepy boyfriend. She was edgy and irritated and irritating to be around, I think my spirit got harmed just being around her. As I know your spirit would have been harmed going to Chicago. Just think that you saved your health by not going.
I hope that you will feel deep relief and deep peace of mind. This is what is prayed for you.
I’m feeling something similar.
After hurting us horrendously, our daughter has the audacity to be rude …even arguably abusive to us.
We have pulled back almost totally. Consequences. An important lesson. Plus you must protect yourself.
You did the right thing. Still isn’t easy. But correct all around.
FA and Alanon are groups that might be helpful. (Hugs)
After hurting us horrendously, our daughter has the audacity to be rude …even arguably abusive to us.
We have pulled back almost totally. Consequences. An important lesson. Plus you must protect yourself.
You did the right thing. Still isn’t easy. But correct all around.
FA and Alanon are groups that might be helpful. (Hugs)
BusynMember1
Well-Known Member
Hi Laura. I am actually in the middle of a Zoom NarAnon convention right now and am speaking in ten minutes! Listen, once a person is an addict he is always one. In our group we have a woman whose husband has been sober for 24 years, but addicts are usually difficult people with certain hard personality traits so she still goes. Our addicts are always one drink or pill away from being back in the hell of addiction. You will fit in whether your son is currently using or not. Most of us in NarAnon don't really know if our beloved addict is currently clean or not. Also Nar Anon treats addiction as a family disease and is GREAT at teaching us how to use many tools to stop enabling, to stop always making our addict be our entire life (even our kid addicts) and how to still be happy. The program works on guilt, fear and resentment. We have a great Zoom group on Thursday night at 6:30CST. People from anywhere can join. Look online for NarAnon Zoom meeting if interested. Or message me about it and I will give more info. This particular group is really a good one! Also, abuse from loved ones is addressed and anything you can think of regarding a person who has ever abused substances.
I hope Nar Anon works and, when you get a therapist, try to find one who has experience with both addiction and codependency.
I believe it is important to find safe people you trust in real time. I hope you find a great solution for yourself. I send prayers.
Love and hugs.
.
I hope Nar Anon works and, when you get a therapist, try to find one who has experience with both addiction and codependency.
I believe it is important to find safe people you trust in real time. I hope you find a great solution for yourself. I send prayers.
Love and hugs.
.
@BusynMember can you message me the info/link/whatever? That's about the same time and day my local Nar-Anon meets, but there are times when I don't feel like getting dressed or the weather prohibits me from going, since I don't drive. This would be a great fill-in or supplement. Thanks so much.
The thing with my son is it's more than "just" addiction. He's had behavioral and mental disorders since he was maybe 10. Much of his thought pattern, behavior, attitude started back then. So it's hard for me to tell when it's the drugs speaking or the (not sure how to put this) misfires in his brain caused by bipolar, egocentrism, narcissism, or whatever. The lines are blurred, and I'm sure it's a combination of both, especially when he is using.
The thing with my son is it's more than "just" addiction. He's had behavioral and mental disorders since he was maybe 10. Much of his thought pattern, behavior, attitude started back then. So it's hard for me to tell when it's the drugs speaking or the (not sure how to put this) misfires in his brain caused by bipolar, egocentrism, narcissism, or whatever. The lines are blurred, and I'm sure it's a combination of both, especially when he is using.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
You know I think one of the things that makes it hard for many of us on the forum, is that our empathy for our adult children blinds us from the fact that these are adult people, no different than we are. While adults have empathy for one another and can often as if "walk in the same shoes" this does not mean that we need to be with each other, as if the other is a baby. Our children need to develop the resources to be alone in this world, because ultimately each of us is alone and our children will certainly be without their mothers when each of us dies.
Nomad. I think the latter part of this sentence is the most important, and the first part, less so, and the middle part "an important lesson" even less so. I think we have not one iota of power to teach by our example. The lessons our children learn come from "life" and the world apart from us. They do not learn in relation to us. I really don't think so.
For the longest time I have believed I needed to set a moral example for my son. No. I have to be moral for myself. I must protect myself.
I think the only obligation you have is to yourself. To be a good person, yes. But no longer do we need to be in relation to our children to teach or change them. If they can't learn, and they are intolerable to be around, it's on them, unless/until we can find a way that they no longer hurt us.
I agree with everybody else. Laura's son behaved intolerably. It doesn't matter why. The behavior in itself is enough and inexcusable. He may learn. He may not. But until he can control his behavior enough to treat her in a way that she is worthy of being treated, no. No way.
I no longer see my son. I am no longer physically with him. I speak to him on the phone. I may let him live in a property I own, conditionally. But I find it unbearable to be with him. So I am not. I pay a real price for this. But like so many other parents on this forum, the price is too high to be near him. Feeling triggered or sad or frightened would be way way worse.
Last edited:
BusynMember1
Well-Known Member
Hi! If you want to message me your email, I will.send it to the very kind member who can give you all the info you need to get into the meeting. If you want to talk to her first, I'm sure she would do that. She handles helping new visitors and hosts the meetings.
If anyone else is interested, message me with the reason and an email. This is a very good group. Not all groups mesh as well as we do. It doesn't matter where you live. Even outside the U.S. works on Zoom.
Love you all.
If anyone else is interested, message me with the reason and an email. This is a very good group. Not all groups mesh as well as we do. It doesn't matter where you live. Even outside the U.S. works on Zoom.
Love you all.
Acacia
Well-Known Member
Laura, I know you are hurting, but I agree you did the right thing by not going to Chicago. I admire your strength in refusing to tolerate your son's abuse. I know how how hard it must have been to set so firm a boundary.
I have little contact with my adult son who is 36, an addict with a very difficult personality (narcissistic, grandiose, gaslighting, etc.). He was very sick about 6 months ago and begged me to take care of him. I would not bring him to my house, but I got a hotel room and took care of him and he recovered. He seemed to be changing for the better to the point that I co-signed a 9 month lease because he was being evicted from is apartment. We enjoyed a few peaceful weeks of contact.
Within a few months he began being verbally abusive again, and I began to suspect he was doing/dealing drugs. Fast forward. He is being evicted from the apartment I am a co-signer on because of suspected drugs/dealing. As we say, no good deed goes unpunished.
It's 2 in the morning as I write this. I will do anything this time to rescue him, I will not store his belongings, I will not give him money. I don't even want contact. I am done. Thank you for sharing your story and showing that even though it breaks our hearts, we can can stand up for ourselves. The waves of sorrow come, but so does the relief of letting go, letting God.
I have little contact with my adult son who is 36, an addict with a very difficult personality (narcissistic, grandiose, gaslighting, etc.). He was very sick about 6 months ago and begged me to take care of him. I would not bring him to my house, but I got a hotel room and took care of him and he recovered. He seemed to be changing for the better to the point that I co-signed a 9 month lease because he was being evicted from is apartment. We enjoyed a few peaceful weeks of contact.
Within a few months he began being verbally abusive again, and I began to suspect he was doing/dealing drugs. Fast forward. He is being evicted from the apartment I am a co-signer on because of suspected drugs/dealing. As we say, no good deed goes unpunished.
It's 2 in the morning as I write this. I will do anything this time to rescue him, I will not store his belongings, I will not give him money. I don't even want contact. I am done. Thank you for sharing your story and showing that even though it breaks our hearts, we can can stand up for ourselves. The waves of sorrow come, but so does the relief of letting go, letting God.
Acacia…my meeting is in person and local. We are going to FA. FA has on line meetings. And some in person meetings. I think less in person meetings in the last year or two likely due to Covid. You can pm me. I’ll also try to post a link to FA in case you can’t pm me.
Families Anonymous
FA is a 12 step fellowship for the family and friends of those individuals with drug, alcohol or related behavioral issues. We are here to help! We have been informed that many FA groups worldwide…
www.familiesanonymous.org
I wasn’t sure if you wanted to give me information or receive information.
It’s been a horrendous day for me.
It seems most parents at FA come due to having an adult childusing drugs or alcohol. But, there are others who are there due to having adult children who are mentally unwell and engaging in inappropriate/harmful/negative behaviors.
We are very new.
BusynMember1
Well-Known Member
I wonder if a Zoom meeting for this channel could happen. Just a thought. For some FaceTime issue affective than writing.
Copa…regarding this: “We have pulled back almost totally. Consequences. An important lesson. Plus you must protect yourself.” And this reply from you “Nomad. I think the latter part of this sentence is the most important.. I think we have not one iota of power to teach by our example. The lessons our children learn come from "life" and the world apart from us. They do not learn in relation to us. I really don't think so.”
I think what you said is greatly true. But I Think since we want so much to help them (you touched on this) our kids often don’t experience natural consequences. Yelling at your parents who are trying to help you basically SHOULD result in a negative (for lack of a better word) and extra so if that child is sn adult. If it doesn’t or often doesn’t, we are negatively enforcing bad behavior. So the lesson of cause and effect can at least start with us. I think. BUT then again, I actually largely agree with you as well. Our life lessons aren’t nearly as powerful of those in real life. The loss of a friend, a lover, a job, health…something of value. We seem to be often not truly valuable.
We are assumed to be people who stick around and will cater to their issues…even when they are abusive… because after all…they are our children and we love them. Meh. NO.
It’s just a subtle difference. I think the cause and effect concept can start with us. I think it might make a small, but real impact.
But..yep…our happiness is most important. This goes double once our “kids” become adults. Not only have we earned it…but it doesn’t do them an iota of good to be miserable. No good to ignore their abuse. Abuse is abuse. No way should we tolerate it. Walk away. Life is too short to be bogged down (and that doesn't even begin to describe this crxp) with their drama trauma. Life really is good and we absolutely must relish it. This means making what often is the hard choice of pushing them aside and moving forward.
I think what you said is greatly true. But I Think since we want so much to help them (you touched on this) our kids often don’t experience natural consequences. Yelling at your parents who are trying to help you basically SHOULD result in a negative (for lack of a better word) and extra so if that child is sn adult. If it doesn’t or often doesn’t, we are negatively enforcing bad behavior. So the lesson of cause and effect can at least start with us. I think. BUT then again, I actually largely agree with you as well. Our life lessons aren’t nearly as powerful of those in real life. The loss of a friend, a lover, a job, health…something of value. We seem to be often not truly valuable.
We are assumed to be people who stick around and will cater to their issues…even when they are abusive… because after all…they are our children and we love them. Meh. NO.It’s just a subtle difference. I think the cause and effect concept can start with us. I think it might make a small, but real impact.
But..yep…our happiness is most important. This goes double once our “kids” become adults. Not only have we earned it…but it doesn’t do them an iota of good to be miserable. No good to ignore their abuse. Abuse is abuse. No way should we tolerate it. Walk away. Life is too short to be bogged down (and that doesn't even begin to describe this crxp) with their drama trauma. Life really is good and we absolutely must relish it. This means making what often is the hard choice of pushing them aside and moving forward.
BusynMember1
Well-Known Member
I'm going to check on Families Anonymous too. Seems extra support won't hurt and my.kid is also mentally ill. I'm checking Zoom meetings. I like those best....not feeling safe in person because vaccinated people are getting Omicron.
thank you for bringing FA to the table, Nomad. Glad you are going for help.
thank you for bringing FA to the table, Nomad. Glad you are going for help.
Acacia
Well-Known Member
Pia Mellody talks about disempowering abuse and empowering abuse. Disempowering abuse of children includes neglect, physical, emotional, sexual abuse. Empowering abuse of children is failing to set limits and boundaries. This is what happened with my now 36 year old son. When my son was 9-15, my ex didn't set limits, allowed my son to break rules at school, gave into him, etc. with no negative consequences. Basically he enabled my son to become oppositional and a narcissist.
Nomad, thank for the info about FA.
Laura, I hope you are doing okay. I know I can stand firm in the moment, and then the guilt, heartbreak, and sadness creep in. You are are a loving mother trying to help your son and you are loving to yourself by setting a boundary when you were treated badly.
Nomad, thank for the info about FA.
Laura, I hope you are doing okay. I know I can stand firm in the moment, and then the guilt, heartbreak, and sadness creep in. You are are a loving mother trying to help your son and you are loving to yourself by setting a boundary when you were treated badly.
