Rehab, drugs and fighting

[Macalania]

Hi everyone, I have been reading all the post and this is so scary. My son who is now 16 has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and started smoking pot last summer and is now into drinking. My husband did not think this was a big deal!!!! and there have been no consequences for this behavior!! Husband says all the kids are doing it. I say this is not permissible, our son is self-medicating and doing way more than his friends (his friends talk) He had two tramatic
events last Dec. 07 where he lost his position in a band he was in and was jumped while walking to a friends. It seemed from then on it was down hill with school. It took everything in my power to keep him from failing and life was a nightmare. He passed but hated me. This year he just completely did nothing at school and was failing. We just went through Neuro-psy testing and we do not have the results back yet so there is probably more going on than Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)>He was also just started on Zoloft. We no sooner got him into a new school for kids like him who had low self esteem, depression, ADD, ADHD etc. (Suppose to be a great school - only been there 3 days and likes it.) and we experienced a weekend of fear. We live near Philadelphia and the kids around here are out of control. There are parties of up to 75 kids held in the woods and these kids are standing in frigid temperatures to just get high and drunk. My son ended up getting beat up (for a fight he started). One of his friends who does not drink saved his butt. His friends told me he has been drinking alot in the past month and gets "beer muscles" and wants to fight.
This is new behavior. He is grumpy,mean,angry, punches things etc. at home but never started fights on outside. My husband I were in therapy but getting no where because he lets my son do what he wants. Anyway I called a new therapist for my son who was recommended by the new school. The therapist told me he would not see him until he was evaluated for Rehab.
(Level of care). My husband said he was not sending our son to rehab and and that we need to just talk to him. Talking is not getting us anywhere from what I can see things are just getting worst. When I told the therapist my husband was not comfortable with Rehab he flipped out on me screaming "whats your husband nuts" "Does he want to go to his sons funeral!""He can not take Zoloft and do drugs, he will die" "I can report you for child abuse!" After getting off the phone with this guy I really thought I was going to have a stroke and be rushed to the hospital. I called a few Rehabs and they all said it had to be voluntary and I know my son will not go. So they said I would have to wait till hes 302. I called his PSY. Dr. and I took him off the Zoloft. Does anyone out there know of a really good Rehab in the Philadelphia, Bucks County PA. area??? I am so scared as too where this is going. I wanted my son to be grounded for the fight but my husband is not willing to support me. I know my son would constantly try to take off if grounded, pace, punch walls etc. and I don't think my husband want to deal with the conflict. So just like all of you I am sitting here worrying and hoping he makes it home OK tonight!!!!!!!!!!! HES HOME!!!!!!!!! ON TIME & I AM HAPPY FOR THE MOMENT! Do you all believe Rehabs are the answer, Also would a dose of Zoloft as low as 25mg increase agression. AND AGAIN ANY GOOD REHABS? so I can be prepared. SORRY THIS IS SO LONG> THANK YOU SO MUCH!!

 

[everywoman]

What a horrible position you find yourself in. Until you can get your husband on the same page, you are fighting a losing battle. Your son is 16. You do have some control at this point. There are some actions you can take, but they will not be fun. You can file a PInS or CHINS through your local courts that could force evaluation for rehab. You can call the police when your son comes home drunk or after curfew. Once law enforcement or the courts become involved, however, you turn a lot of power over to them.
Rehab will only work if your son wants it to work. If not, he will return to the same area and might begin using again.

 

[compassion]

Welcome!!! My daughter is 15 and has 61 days from not running away/using subatances. I laid it out. You are being very self destructive and I love lyou. either you do things here to get help or you are choosing to go away to treatment.
I draw weekly behavor contracts. i focused on the biggies: no using subtances and no running away. ODAT it has worked. She attends AA at least 4 times a week . She sees a terapist weekly and signes the beharor contract.
She is on medication and takes it. that was a real concern before wwhen she kept running. She is doing healthy things like her classes, volelyball, singing and is slowly gettng healthier freinds.
I have had to take some very strong actions. I have her Myspace password and delte over and over again kids she used with. I make her take their names out of her cellphone. she is durg tested regualrly.
Do yu have a psychiatrist? My psychiatrist had info about Residential Treatment Center (RTC). In my state, acute care is covered by insurance for 30 days.
As somone said, all the control leaves once they are placed. I think it iss awesome that he ahs that school.
My husband can't set boundaries with my difficult child and I am the heavy.
My experince was to set the boudnaries and put the choice in difficult child hands. If you use, you are out. If you run, you are out. It has worked ODAT.

Al-Anon has helped a lot. Oh, I have been told that NA has more young people. In acity as big as Phily, there are proably oyounmg peopeo's meetings for NA and AA.
My understanding is specific tratment centers annot not be discussed on the board but private messages are fine.
Compasson

 

[Rotsne]

First the parents needs to level or the child would shop where he gets the best conditions.

Second he needs to accept that he has a problem or your money is wasted. No human can fix a problem they are not acknowledging.

Third it is the community which seem to be the big enabler in your case. If he cannot walk anywhere among peers without seeing groups of youth where he is accepted as he is. All he should do is joining their drinking or drug use. It takes unique boy to avoid being taken into that peer group.

I dont think that the first priority is rehab. The first priority is for him to get out of town. Do you have family in another state? Send him on vacation there.

Next you get into real marriage counseling. You need to write down a house contract with all the rules you want in your home, so when your son returns, he returns to a house with clear boundaries. He can not fight an addiction when the foundation under his feet is rocky.

Professionel soldiers in my country fighting the 11'th Christian crusade in Afghanistan are able to hit a target as little as a matchbox 500 feet away. They did a test. Blindfolded they were able to do the same. Placed on a table where some of their mates rocked the table they were not. Your son deserves clear rules he can rest on while fighting the addiction off.

When you and your husband has made the house contract, your son can return. From then on it is your way or the highway. If he choose the highway, which can be his room with a mattress and blanket only with 3 meals per day, you can ask him if he is ready for rehab. Once he agrees you can start looking.

What would happen if you found a rehab tomorrow and he went there. He will phone or write you with one kind of plea, then your husband with another plea. How long do you think it would take for one of you to pull him? Hours, days, weeks?

Thats why I recommend that you take a totally other approach to this situation.

 

[susiestar]

I am so sorry. This must be so scary. First off, Welcome to our group. It is very supportive, and many people will have ideas.

You may want to push the neuropsychologist to get results ASAP so you can know what you are working with. I agree that the booze and drugs are part peer pressure and large part self medicating. Sadly, your husband is a LARGE part of the problem.

If the therapist does report you for neglect or abuse due to your son's drug use, your husband will be forced to some extent to face the problem.

If the police find your son in your home with an amount of drugs they consider to be more than for personal use, you can lose your home to the RICO laws. It can be seized as a place used for drug trafficking. And, as several members who have kids who have overcome drug problems say, if you are using, you are selling. It is how they fund their habits. Also, if your son admits to beer and pot, you can bet the farm he is at least trying other substances.

Zoloft, or any SSRI or SNRI antidepressant, CAN make a person more aggressive. I would think this would be made worse by mixing it with alcohol or drugs.

Can you take your son in for a checkup and have them run a full drug panel with-o your son knowing? Have them first just tell him that it is part of a normal checkup? Ask the doctor in private BEFORE the appointment (call the nurse and leave a message, and when they call back stress that they MUST NOT tell your son that the urine is for a drug test) to run the most complete drug panel they have. Sometimes they just test for 7 drugs, or for other numbers. You want teh most complete panel so you can tell exactly what he is into.

Without your husband's help you are not going to make much headway on rehab. Quite honestly, all the rehab in the world won't help until he hits bottom and admits he has a problem. I am sorry.

For yourself, I strongly, STRONGLY recommend going to Al Anon or Narc Anon or Families Anonymous. They will help YOU deal with things and learn not to enable your son. Just because your son and husband won't change doesn't mean you can't. And you will find a LOT of support there as well.

Sending gentle hugs,

Susie

 

[BusynMember]

Hi there. Had a daughter who was a drug abuser, unfortunately. I recommend getting a complete drug test (although some don't show up). Most kids say "It's just pot" but it's usually drinking and heavy drug use too. If I had known then what I know now, I would have put my daughter in a rehab early on and maybe she would have quit sooner. But a child of 16 will only quit if motivated to quit. There is so much peer pressure, however there are also the majority who don't drug abuse--some kids just seem to gravitate that way and my daughter was one. But it's NOT TRUE that "all kids are doing it." Most kids actually don't use drugs and drink to excess. The kids who say "everyone is doing it" are the ones who are doing it and want to justify their behavior. Unfortunately, there is nowhere to move where there is NO element of drug abuse and alcohol. Your child is making a choice to hang with the "bad element" as I call it. Just as my daughter did. She found all the drama, all the parties etc. My other two older kids never seemed to see those things or get into fights or have problems. Honestly, if they want to, they can look for it and find it anywhere.
Actually, prescription drugs for a kid who uses recreational drugs don't work. I would be leery for Zoloft. My daughter got kind of strange on SSRIs (of course she was doing other drugs). (((Hugs))) because I know SO MUCH what you are going through. Strongly recommend going to Narc-Anon or Al-Anon even without hub so you have support. They're GREAT. For the kids, though, I don't know about NA. My daughter told me NA was the biggest drug market she'd ever been to!

 

[Rotsne]

Until you and your husband are aligned when it comes to his potential use of drugs or alcohol you might seek a local therapist. Of course the best would be to remove him from the situation until you and your husband agree of how things should work. I found an article from a family coach about how to handle things until you can ensure a firm foundation for him in your home.

http://www.peele.net/lib/panic.html

 

[BusynMember]

But this child is abusing drugs. We don't have "coaches" here for families. We decide what is best for our children. I think perhaps it is more permissive in your country regarding drugs. in my opinion that is not a good thing. While most kids experiment a few times, most also do not become chronic users. And drinking teens is not a given here and is not encouraged. This poster also has said that talking hasn't helped. It didn't help my daughter either. You in my opinion have no knowledge of the horrors of drug abuse in your personal life although I am quite sure there is plenty of it in your country and you deal with it however...maybe with coaches. Here, the parents decide.
I am not going to post anything here, but I have heard that alcohol abuse is rampant in Scandavania. I'm sure it is here too, but I have heard it is worse there. In that case, perhaps the methods used there are not so good. I do not believe in leniency in drug use, including alcohol. My daughter almost died. We want to prevent THIS child from getting to that point. I do not want to get into culture wars here, but I want this parent to get good advice to help her child and in my opinion it is a very poor idea to be lenient about either drug or underage alcohol use, especially when it is clearly affected the child's well being. I defer to his article about Danish teen dying of drink and Danes having the highest rate of teen drinking in Europe, so obviously something in Denmark needs to change:
http://www.medindia.com/news/Binge-Drinking-Among-Teens-Sparks-Heated-Debate-in-Denmark-24190-1.htm

 

[Rotsne]

I used the wrong word. Stanton Peele has a Ph.D. That makes him more than a coach.

But don't you agree that this poor mom fights a loosing war so long as she cannot get her husband on board?

Unfortunately I had drug abuse in my life. My brother used drugs for 20 years. It did not kill him but now where he is almost 40, he has not been able to establish a family and he is still living in a one-room-apartment not very much larger than a room in a college, so you can say that his drug use made his life remain on standby for 20 years.

Opposite alcohol use - not abuse, which are a common thing here in Denmark, he has lasting effects from the drug use he has to handle for the rest of his life. Right now the authorities are investigating whether he can serve in a normal job at all. Maybe they have to give him a job where the employer gets haft the money for his salery from the state. And he will be forced to remain in his one-room-apartment and continue to stay out of relationship. Not the brightest future.

As for alcohol. My brother drank it, but he was never drunk. Not even once did I catch him talking into the big china phone out in toilet. Not even once have I phoned him where he had a hangover from the day before. Yes people drink alcohol in Scandiavia. Most of them are introduced to alcohol by their parents aged 14 or 15 as part of a religious ceremony and then they are free to experience how they adapt to alcohol so they know how dangerous alcohol can be before they can drive a car. A few don't drink for religious reasons and those you properly will find in court, because our statistic shows that crimes are committed by those marginalized groups none wants to hang around with. Second of all we are at war with them in Afghanistan.

I dont see alcohol and drugs as one whole. The general difference between an alcohol user and an abuser is that the abuser attends meetings. Drug use on the other hand can result in death because of the difference in strength of each unit and lack of quality control. It should not exist.

Regarding this boy we may disagree on many things, but generally two things remain.

1) The parents have to agree on a strategy. Otherwise the child will shop for the best condition manipulating the parents against each other.
2) No rehab in the world would help him until he agrees that he has a problem. It would only be warehousing for time and a waste of money.

 

[BusynMember]

Well, you have to try to work around it whether or not the parents are both on board. Often it starts that one isn't, but he comes around. And sometimes marriages break up over it. You still can't do nothing while the child is hurting.

And a rehab is at least a place where a child can get help and be off the streets. I didn't do that for my daughter--we didn't even know how deeply she was involved in drugs (as I suspect your family members actually DID get drunk, but you just didn't know it), however she quit when she wanted to quit. Since she was only 19, we were very proud of her. She is doing well.

Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s are not warehousing children, at least not here, and the term is offensive. Many of us here use Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s when there is nothing left to do for a child. And many have had successes. Those don't make the newspapers, but they happen. When kids are violent and dangerous either to himself or to other people or both,due to mental illness (including substance abuse) and can not live at home because they may harm others, this is far preferable than jail. At least there is hope that the treatment will work.

 

[Rotsne]

Well, you have to try to work around it whether or not the parents are both on board. Often it starts that one isn't, but he comes around. And sometimes marriages break up over it. You still can't do nothing while the child is hurting.

Well, Residential Treatment Center (RTC) also cost money and what would happen if the boy phones one parent with one opinion and then the other parents with another opinion? It could takes days before they are played out against each other and the boy is pulled.

That's why I suggest to send the child of to relatives. Sometime it is the community, which is the enabler. I can point at several neighborhoods in my town where dealing is far more widespread than here. It is also in these places the youth and our corps of parents - the nightowls are active.

Maybe they found such a group and then she could drag the father out in the field and see what it going on. It is an eyeopener. It is not a pretty sight seeing a group a teens where a quiet gathering with a few beers is destroyed because some has infiltrated it with drugs. Have been there and are still trying to forget what I saw.

 

[jbrain]

Well, you have to have relatives who will take the kid. I wasn't about to ask my aging mother or in-laws to take on my difficult child and also would not expect any of my siblings to do it either. Why should they have to take on a kid that I can't handle?
Jane

 

[susiestar]

Macalania,

I am sorry Rotsne is hijacking your thread about how to get help for your child and turning it into a political "my country is better than yours" rant.

I want to mention one problem my brother encountered when he decided to get clean and sober. He really thought he drank and smoked some pot now and then, but that alcohol was his main drug of choice.

In reality, I was at many parties with my brother before I married. I saw how much he drank, and I also saw him take MANY MANY drugs. Far more than "just pot".

What happened was that he would drink so much he blacked out. He was still walking and talking and sort of making sense, definitely partying, but he had no memory of what happened. Being a light drinker most of the time, I witnessed so much scary behavior. Of course, any time I told my parents, they asked him and he said all he did was drink and I was exaggerating. And they believed him and ignored me or chastised me.

I saw my brother take LSD, mushrooms, cocaine, all sorts of pills (some stolen from me that were prescribed for my arthritis and fibromyalgia), and quite a number of substances I cannot even identify. The only thing I ever saw him say no to was shooting up drugs - he is terrified of needles and refused to even try anything that was used through a needle.

Even when my brother went into rehab and my mom was talking to me about it she did NOT believe me when I told her that my brother had used all of those substances. He said he did not. And she asked where I would even have seen him at a party. I explained he came to many of the parties thrown by my coworkers at a certain restaurant. I actually had to contact a friend and have her call my mom to tell her that I was not lying or making things up to get my bro into trouble.

I wanted him to have the best shot at getting clean and sober and STAYING that way that he could get. If you don't come clean about the things you have taken, you sabotage your chances of staying straight.

Ironically, my brother believed me. HE trusted that I was not just trying to "get him into trouble" or mess him up some way. he remembered being at some of the parties. But he never remembered leaving. And actually HE is the reason the restaurant stopped having the Christmas party at the restaurant. They rent a hall now because my brother was riding some of the equipment and not only messed up one piece but he could have lost his leg climbing all over another. No one in the history of this restaurant had ever done that - and the manager and owners realized what an insurance risk that was. As well as the fact that they would not have been able to make their main menu item with-o the one piece of equipment.

He was messed up, but is now clean and sober. And has been that way for over 7 years!!! But he still reads his AA books, and still goes to meetings several times a week.

As for rehabs, I will PM the name of a very reputable one that I know.

I hope you can either get your husband on your side to help your son, or get help for your son with-o your husband's support. Either way, I pray for the best for your son and your family.

 

[BusynMember]

Heh. Well, our country is clearly inferior to Denmark.

Moving on, we DID have a relative to send my daughter to and we did it and it helped because she could dump her old crowd who was pressuring her. HOWEVER it only worked because she was ready to quit and was NOT good with peer pressure. If she had wanted to, she could have sought out a similar crowd in her new town. It is everywhere. She chose not to do so.
As soon as the pressure was off, she started to get her life together, but it wasn't easy living with her straight-arrow brother who would have tossed her in the street if she so much as lit up a cigarette (I am proud to say she also quit ciggies...yaaaaaay!). She got a two bit job and walked to work, because s he had lost her license after banging up her car. She did chores for her brother--she had no choice. She reconnected with old and better friends that she knew when she lived in Illinois the first time, but she was lonely at first. It is not easy to quit. She had to cut out both any drugs and drinking, and she did it, but she used to call me and cry about her lonliness. She was used to using alcohol and drugs to help her over her shyness. It is up to the child/adult when he is ready to quit. All we can do is work with the options available to us and hope that something clicks. ((((Hugs)))). I know this is so hard.