Repeat after me: I will not strangle the teacher, I will not......

[lovelyboy]

Ok....after the stress of difficult child not wanting to go to school last night....we found out he had terrible headaches.....he woke up still with a headache!!!! But was willing to go to school, even while crying in car of bad headache!
So school nurse phoned me to say I must come and fetch him, he has bad headache...gave him Ponstan. When I got to school, I could see he is in bad shape....sunken eyes and feeling nausea....
This morning I stupidly shared with his class teacher about his meltdowns at home and that we are really struggling as a family....thought she would understand! She suggested we get a second opinion!
So teacher asked me to come and fetch more homework after school......And what would she 'wisely' inform me???? I must really be alert that difficult child doesnt try to manipulate me at home, because in class he is the perfect child with full marks!!!!!AAGGHHHH!!!! She doesnt get it! I tried to explain to her that he uses up all his tolerence at school and then let it all out at home!!!! Surely...what will he gane from manipulating us at home!!!!???? What child will delibirately try and ruen his relationships at home, and choose to feel so bad afterwards!!!!????
I phoned the psychiatrist this afternoon and in her opinion he is feeling very bad because of the increase in SSRI.....so we are tapering it to lower the levels in his blood and then will add Abilify.......
I am going to let teacher know its the medications that caused the illness, NOT manipulation!!!!Agh, why do they always think its the parents fault!!!!????

 

[InsaneCdn]

Why do they blame the parents?
I have no proof of this, but it is SO consistent with teachers, that I'm beginning to think they are TAUGHT this as part of their training.

The only ones I've run into so far that are NOT this way are either...
1) extremely excellent, perceptive teachers - the top 1% or so, or
2) have a special needs child of their own, and have had to deal with the same issues with (fellow) teachers.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Lovely, I completely understand what you are saying. My difficult child was exactly like your son. She would be perfectly well behaved at school, and use up everything she had to control herself at school. And, when she would get home, she would let it all out. It is hard. I hope adding the Abilify helps. It seems to have really helped my difficult child. We are seeing a more stable girl right now. not so many spikes in her behavior. Now we are just seeing more subtle waves. It is nice.

 

[lovelyboy]

I was just thinking about this....wonder if they feel critisized or something, or are to worried that they might be contributing!

 

[lovelyboy]

Thanx, I really hope the Abilify will help...he was very bad on Risperdal!!! Got very aggitated and explosive!!!!

 

[Allan-Matlem]

The traditional appproach to challenging behavior - not Ross Greene , Explosive child - is that for there to be a problem it must exist accross many environments. If the kid is good in school and has behavior problems at home it means the parents are to blame - their parenting is inconsistent, not contingent ,no limits and boundaries, etc

The only thing I would share from the home is how I ' work with my kid' and do collaborative problem solving instead of rewards, punishments, consequences, suspensions etc

For kids at primary school , I would advocate also homework not as a default , but only when needed. Homework causes a lot of stress and there is no research that showshomework benefits kids

Opting out of homework

Allan

 

[InsaneCdn]

The traditional appproach to challenging behavior - not Ross Greene , Explosive child - is that for there to be a problem it must exist accross many environments. If the kid is good in school and has behavior problems at home it means the parents are to blame - their parenting is inconsistent, not contingent ,no limits and boundaries, etc

Allan - are you saying this is the reality? or the perception?

Yes, this is the way things are perceived. But it is NOT the reality.
Real-life case in point... we couldn't get help until it became a problem at both school and home, and our difficult child was almost destroyed in the process. But once we got the right resources attacking the problem... the REAL problem was DEFINITELY school: difficult child has a serious Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) (auditory figure ground), which made coping with SCHOOL extremely difficult, but he did his best to hold it together there and fell apart at home.

Got right accommodations for Auditory Processing Disorders (APD)... and we turned the corner on behavior at home AND at school.

 

[Kathy813]

Actually, we have had this discussion before. There are studies that show that homework is beneficial to students when assigned the correct amount.

Duke Study: Homework Helps Students Succeed in School, As Long as There Isn't Too Much | Duke Today

Homework: What the Research Says Brief

The second article is by the National Teachers of Mathematics Council and discusses different types of studies and comes to the conclusion:

Each of the studies that have looked at the link between homework and achievement has flaws, but they tend not to share flaws. Across the studies, a wide variety of students have provided data, and the relationship between homework and achievement has been tested in varied subject areas under different circumstances. The studies have controlled for or tested many plausible competing explanations in various combinations. With only rare exceptions, the relationship between the amount of homework students do and their achievement was found to be positive and was generally statistically different from zero.

The studies do note that the homework has a greater value for middle and high school students.

I know that this is a controversial topic but I think it is important to not make blanket statements like homework has no intrinsic value to students.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Kathy... You're a teacher. I'm a parent. That equals loggerheads, right?

Just some parent-perspective on homework...
1) It works better for NT kids than for difficult children
2) It is definitely better than group projects
3) Kids DO need practice - especially in basic subjects like Math and English
4) If homework is a problem - because the kid is too burned out by school to deliver any more work after hours - then the answer lies in a lower academic load at school... for example, one period per day reserved AT SCHOOL for assisted homework, so that homework doesn't come "home". For some students, this may mean TWO assisted periods - and taking longer to finish school.
5) In general, I do not consider reading to be homework - unless the student has a major learning disability to do with reading, in which case the books should be made available on tape and the "reading" still can be done at home.

 

[Kathy813]

InsaneCnd, I am a teacher AND a parent and also a parent of a difficult child. I do not need you to give me a parent's perspective on homework. However, since you are not a math teacher as far as I know, let me give you some teacher-perspective on homework.

1) It is my experience after spending 30 plus years in the classroom that students that do math homework perform at a much higher level than students that do not.
2) I have taught inclusion classes for many years and the special education students are capable of doing homework and it is also beneficial for them. I have made modifications and accommodations as needed as to the amount or time given to complete the assignments.
3) I agree that for some difficult child's, time needs to be built into the school day such as a studies skills class so that they can complete the homework at school rather than add to the length of the school day having to finish the work at home.
4) Group projects have their place even though I don't use them in my math class very often. Again, accommodations can be made successfully. I have two asperger's students that like to work together so I pair them for projects and they do the work in the asperger's room instead of the classroom.

I just didn't like a blanket statement being made that homework has no benefits and should not be assigned for any students. As I am sure that you know, research and statistics can be used to support anyone's viewpoint. I base my opinion on 30 years of experience in a classroom.

~Kathy

 

[InsaneCdn]

I just didn't like a blanket statement being made that homework has no benefits and should not be assigned for any students. As I am sure that you know, research and statistics can be used to support anyone's viewpoint. I base my opinion on 30 years of experience in a classroom.

Now there's a statement that I can back, 100%!

I have yet to find one teacher, anywhere on the planet, that will believe that it is possible for a student to be so fatigued by mid-afternoon, that even a late-period class doesn't work. Fatigue is the most invisible of invisible disabilities. Teachers ALWAYS take it to be attitude (you might be an exception, but you don't teach here!). If you have any idea of how to communicate this extreme fatigue in ways that teachers can actually understand and relate to, I'd LOVE to have feedback.

 

[lovelyboy]

Alan, I am also not sure if you are stating your statement on reality?
If this is your perspective I do tend to differ a bit from you.....from a sensory integration point of view: my son has problems with auditory processing and motor planning as well as auditory and tactile defensiveness....So by the time he gets home, his sensory system is in overload, so he is usually very close to shut down...it only takes a screaming little brother or barking dog to push him over the edge! And this has NOTHING to do with any parenting style or manipulation! Its that typical invisible fatigue.... And yes, I agree that there is a place for homework, BUT I really dont see the point in my son needing to practice his spelling by writing 30 words everyday, to practice it for the test on Friday, when he already can write all the words correct at first sight on Monday! Or needing to read his reader of 36 pages, when he knows every word and reeds fluantly....thats wasting energy....to prepair for his oral on a new topic, yes, that makes sence and also to practice maths...yes.
Regarding my sons teacher....not all teachers are the same, I do think its a personality thing ass well.....Like tonight.....where is the manipulation, where is the teacher, while my son is crying his heart out because he has terrible headache from seretonin withdrawell and is teribly afraid to go to school tomorrow, because of the children making a noice, bumping against him, exct. I just wish more teachers will realize that we as parents are really trying our best....

 

[Nancy]

I find it interesting that in our state we are having a major debate going on about students not learning what they need to be learning in the classroom and there is a big push to extend the school day. They are currently revamping the school system to pay teachers based on how much the student learns that year.

It is impossible for students to learn what they need to learn to meet state standards if they have two or even one period a day to do homework.

Insane you appear to be very angry that your difficult child is having difficulty with homework. I understand your frustration, I was one of those moms that groaned every night trying to get difficult child to do her homework, but never ever did think my difficult child should not have to do it because it made my job easier or because she got fatigued. I honestly don't know what you expect of teachers.

My easy child is a teacher and you honestly have no idea what pressure they are under to get their students, ALL of them, to perform up to standards. She has an autistic boy in her classroom, just one of several that have special needs, and she is expected to teach him and have him learn what is expected just like every other student. He also gets homeowrk and his parents are soooo supportive and have never once complained that it was too hard or frustrating, and from listening to easy child's description of him it must be very frustrating.

It's a shame that so many parents engage in teacher bashing, I can't even go to the grocery store without hearing how much they make and how short their day is. My easy child makes $28,000 and her day starts and 7:30 and she never gets home before 6 pm. She spends her evenings and most of her weekend preparing for the next day and week. I go over her house every day to pick up her puppy and spend about 2 hours laminating and cutting and all sorts of preparation. She has spent $2,000 of her own money on school supplies this year out of pocket that she does not get reimbursed for. And if her students don't learn what they need to learn this year she can be fired. So I have little sympathy for parents who complain about homework.

Nancy

 

[InsaneCdn]

No, it isn't anger about homework. Its anger about an invisible disability that there is NO allowance for, in ANY school system (nor medical system) I can find on this planet. NOBODY believes that a teenager actually has no choice but to completely shut down at 4 PM - and is in bed at 6. DAILY. As in, 7 days a week.

 

[Malika]

I did not understand IC to be making blanket statements about homework. I understood her to be saying that her son is too exhausted at the end of a school day and that that didn't seem to be accepted as valid by teachers in her son's school. Please correct me if I am wrong IC. I sympathise - my son also seems exhausted at the end of a school day and I myself never had homework at all in primary school so am not conditioned to thinking it is a natural thing at a young age.

 

[Kathy813]

Malika, I wasn't referring to Insane when I made the comment about blanket statements against homework. I was referring to Alfie Kohn, the author that Alan-Matlem provided a link for in his post. He is known here in America for his opposition to homework.

I also realize that european countries take a different approach in regard to education. I actually wish that we would adopt a system where we have two tracks and students were not all expected to go to college. I believe that many of our problems are trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Students that are going to be hairdressers or work at Jiffy Lube don't need to take calculus in high school. Students that can't handle the rigor of upper level classes that require homework would be much happier in hands-on training programs. Please don't take me wrong . . . I am not putting down hairdressers or mechanics . . . they provide valued services. I am just saying that we don't need to try to force all students into AP classes which has become the norm at many US high schools. I think it just sets some students up for failure.

ETA: Lovelyboy, I am sorry that the thread got highjacked and that I was part of it. I can tell you that it is hard for a teacher that only sees the "good" child at school to see that child as a problem at home. I understand because my daughter was like your son. She was a lot older when she turned into a difficult child but she always remained well behaved at school despite the chaos she was causing in our home. To this day, teachers that taught my difficult child (I teach at the same school so I know them all) still have a hard time believing the things I tell them about difficult child now. They will always have a picture of sweet, shy difficult child in their minds because that is how they knew her.

~Kathy

 

[InsaneCdn]

Students that can't handle the rigor of upper level classes that require homework would be much happier in hands-on training programs

Kathy - I understand that this isn't YOUR feelings - rather, its a very generalized thing, perhaps systemic either in society as a whole, or in the education system. But...

What, exactly, is then proposed for the kid with... very high intellegence and extreme limitations due to fatigue or medical issues? Hands-on employment isn't going to work. Making a living with his brain is the ONLY long-term option. But... if he cannot do - literally - 60-90 minutes of intensive homework every single night... the automatic response is to "dumb-down" his courses.

Its... either you can live on 6-7 hours of sleep a night starting at age 13, OR.. you are destined to live life at the "bottom" of the totem pole, and because you can't make a living based on strength... you end up pushed right out of life. This is why so many of these kids end up as statistics. There is no place for them in society.

(maybe that's a clue as to why some of these things get me angry?)

 

[Marguerite]

GETTING BACK ON TOPIC HERE...

Allan was NOT saying that the traditional method of parenting (that the behaviour is spread across all situations) is accurate. Only that it is a commonly held belief, one which most of us here (including Allan) do NOT necessarily subscribe to any more, now we have learned from experience.

As for the homework debate - we've been there before and it really is not relevant to this thread. Start a new one or take it outside, children... no ball games in the living room!

LovelyBoy, what you describe with your son is so typical of what many of us have found. And yes, giving your child a "school-free zone" at home is a good start, where you can manage it. To do this you need to be able to work with your child's teachers.

Despite your wish to throttle the teacher (for just not getting it despite your attempts to explain) never forget that the teacher almost certainly really cares about your son. We've been down that road too - the teacher cares, but doesn't understand and therefore makes some big blunders. We did find comprehension beginning to dawn in most cases as we headed towards the end of the school year.

And that is another issue you may be dealing with - our difficult children have day by day mental fatigue, but also week by week and term by term. We would find the burnout factor greatly increasing the further we got into the school year. And teachers burn out too, and get to the "I can't cope, make it all stop" stage. Even the best of them.

Where possible, I always did better when I succeeded in educating the teacher. Not always possible, but often more possible than you realise. Some refuse to learn, but most really care. And even if the teacher doesn't get it until the last day of the school year, then at least the next difficult child that comes along will get a better hearing.

The advantage of educating the educators, has been an increased credibility with school staff in general over time. When we had problems a couple of years ago with difficult child 3's English teacher (who just didn't understand the complexity of the problems and had a combination of unrealistic expectations mixed with "there's no way someone with autism can do that") I had enough credibility and history with the rest of the school staff, that I was able to respond to false accusations from that teacher - she found herself out on a limb and had to retract her accusations. I was also able to handle matters in such a manner so I was still on good terms with this teacher at the end of the school year. We still chat. I still don't fully trust her, but I do recognise that she cares about my child and she also now realises how far she got it wrong. But by working with her (with a bit of clout from the subject head) we resolved issues instead of had a permanent state of war.

It can be done. It is frustrating when we are faced with people not getting it, when we thought we had made things clear.

All you can do, is keep trying. it is what our kids do. Let is follow their example, and keep trying to patiently explain, and work with positive reinforcement, to get some sort of improved communication.

My response to that teacher would be, "I understand you care about my son. I also understand that you believe I have been suckered by him. I need to assure you, I know this child well and also see the level of mental exhaustion he gets each day. I am glad he does well in your class- that says really good things about my child, and about his desire to please you. But it takes a far greater effort for him to do this, than for the average child.Once he gets home, he knows he can relax his vigilance, and tat is why we have the fallout If I clamp down hard on this behaviour, it all becomes too much for him. He cannot maintain his semblance of perfection for too many hours at a time, something's got to give. It is like a swan paddling on the lake - to the casual observer it looks serene, the image of tranquility. but if you look beneath the surface, there is a lot of furious activity required, to make this picture look so tranquil."

As with children, analogies work with teachers. They have a lot of other students to deal with, and whatever you can use to get the message across fastest will work best for them.

Be kind to the teacher. She is not being deliberately thick. She has just not yet understood a child like yours. And here, you can remedy that. But it will take time and effort, and we do get tired!

Marg

 

[lovelyboy]

Thanx Marg.....I think what upsets me is the fact that in her mind she already decided that either the dr got the diagnosis wrong.....thats why she suggested a second opinion....or that we are trying to make it worse than it is......Because she said to me she had a boy with my sons diagnosis last year and he was much worse than my son! I think maybe my son just learned better how to fake it! He had me fooled for 7 years that he understood all the difficult things I discussed with him! Sadly and greatfully I started picking up on his reactions that he often dont have a clue whats going on but is overriding his limitations with his brilliant brain!!!!

 

[DammitJanet]

IC....if your son is that fatigued all the time I do believe I would have him checked by the doctor's for some other physical problems. What jumps to mine is Chronic fatigue Syndrome. I really have a difficult time with understanding teens that cant manage to make it from morning till 6pm at night before they want to hit the hay. Mine were always early to bed, early to rise but even they didnt take it to that extreme. Plus they were extremely active boys. On the go constantly with school then organized sports after school or 4H activities, not to mention biking, fishing, hunting and exploring our rural area. We live on eight acres and their nearest friend is over a mile away and they walked there at least once a week if not more often.