Results of the TSP Meeting...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DaisyFace, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Well, not quite what I hoped for...

    Not everyone who was invited was in attendance. The school sent a letter. The psychiatrist and psychiatric hospital rep were complete no-shows. So the meeting was caseworker, therapist, and husband and I.

    husband was great! Very firm. Told them he was worried for the safety of his family and that difficult child needed more help than we could provide. He made it clear that we were looking to get difficult child into structure structure structure.

    therapist emphasized that outpatient therapy was not working. Her recommendation was a residential placement. She felt it was difficult child's only real shot at quality help.

    The caseworker, who has only been on the job for a few months, seemed completely overwhelmed. In regards to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) placement, she wasn't really authorized to offer that. She explained that she was supposed to set up other kinds of support and if that failed THEN they would consider Residential Treatment Center (RTC) placement.

    So - OK then....what did she have to offer?

    Well, not much...

    I had typed up a bulleted list of current problems in order of importance. So raging was #1, seeking out dangerous situations was #2....all the way down to not doing chores at #15. The caseworker went down the list saying "Well, we can't really help that....that's not what we do...this should be handled in therapy..." etc

    In the end, the caseworker has offered a Behavioral Managment person. He or she will come out to the house for a few hours a week and help us implement a behavior chart.

    Are you kidding me? What about all the behavior charts that have been tried and failed one after the other after the other after the other?

    And when the caseworker asked us what should be the goals of the BMP? - I said, referring to our bulleted list - raging, revenge-seeking and dangerous behaviors are our number one concern. The caseworker had to admit that a BMP could not address that - nor could it address the health and hygiene issues - nor could it address medication compliance. BUT - the person could make sure that difficult child did her homework and performed chores around the house.

    Well, great.

    The caseworker explained that in order to qualify for placement, they would need evidence that difficult child was a danger to self or others. I pulled out police reports, copies of difficult child's instant messages where she says her Mom should be poisoned, records from the psychiatric hospital where difficult child expressed hatred toward all of her family members.

    Caseworker was clearly frustrated. She explained that she did not have the authorization to place difficult child at this point.

    So a Behavioral Management person was on the table....and that's it.

    We said "We'll take it"


    We requested a meeting with caseworker's supervisor

    AND we requested that the caseworker or supervisor place a call to the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) we applied to last year (which accepts Medicaid and additional fees from parents are on a sliding scale). Last year, the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) rejected us - but perhaps with a call from somebody with a lot of letters after their name....difficult child might get a spot. we wait and see...
  2. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Oh, hon. HUGS!

    psychiatrist and psychiatric hospital rep no-shows? What?

    And why would they send a caseworker with no authority?

    Unfortunately, this sounds so much like where I live it's not even funny.

    But hug your husband for me, too. Cause he did GREAT!
  3. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member


    how frustrating. You had everything in order and then no-shows and no authorization! I know this has been a really stressful week. Sounds like husband and you are, at the very least, on the same page.

  4. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Give your husband a pat on the back for standing firm!

    I wonder too what the caseworker's purpose was...if you can't authorize anything, why are you here?
  5. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Glad to see husband didn't waffle like you worried he would (I expect you had a lot to do with that!). Hope you get better results from her supervisor.
  6. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Sadly, we met many caseworkers without the authority to actually do anything. I think the main problem is that 90% of the kids that get referred to them are helped by those basic services. But our kids are a whole different ball game.

    Why did the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) reject her??
  7. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    The Residential Treatment Center (RTC) claimed they did not "meet the level of service" required...and recommended we try Residential Treatment Center (RTC) B which is a high-maintenance facility. Residential Treatment Center (RTC) B rejected her...claiming that she does not need a higher level of service and recommended that we apply to the first Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

    The first Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is a really nice facility with an Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) component for kids difficult child's age.
  8. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I said so many prayers that husband would step up to the plate...I forgot to include the staff! What a bummer. Hugs. DDD
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Very proud of husband and you!!! He did great!!! Now you have to keep pushing up the ladder at whoever sent the sw who couldn't do anything. I wonder why she was there, like everyone else. Maybe it was to make you think they were doing something so you would shut up and go away. I encourage you to complain to the psychiatrist and psychiatric hospital about not showing up = in my opinion they need to be there, BUT it needs to be a meeting with someone who can actually DO somehting.

    Keeping the prayers going that they find a way to help you. Go back to the RTCs you spoke to last year. Maybe you have enough evidence now that they will do something?
  10. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Good for husband! The caseworker sounds way out of her league. I'm sorry. Hugs.
  11. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Yes, husband was great!

    I don't understand what is up with the caseworker...

    Maybe it's just because she is so new at the job?

    And here's the thing that I do not understand....and I just keep going around in circles in my head:

    psychiatric hospital says there's nothing more they can do for difficult child - she needs placement
    therapist says difficult child is not responding to therapy - there's nothing more she can do - difficult child needs placement
    Residential Treatment Center (RTC) says difficult child is more than they can handle - difficult child needs a secure, high maintenance facility

    All of these folks who have studied mental health issues for years and years, some in secure facilities with 24-hour monitoring and specially-trained staff and other assists at their disposal cannot handle difficult child

    So what's the solution? To have difficult child live in a non-secure facility with two adults and a child who have no training or special knowledge of mental health issues. These are the folks most equipped to handle this child?

    It makes no sense.
  12. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    DF, I'm not surprised at the end result of the mtg but was hoping for better. At this point, states are meting out in home services rather than Residential Treatment Center (RTC) in hopes this will "cure" the situation. All the mental health pro's can chime in all they want ~ the case workers have to report to a supervisor who in turn must keep his/her budget in line to the state legislation. See where I'm going here?

    Take what ever is offered. Document, document, document. Cooperate with the in home person within reasonable parameters & boundaries. Let the in home person know the boundaries & privacy that you insist be acknowledged & followed by difficult child & in home staff. Present your family's home rules, chores, expectations for respect, school, etc.

    It's the only way to keep things sane while seeking help for your difficult child. You know your difficult child will step over the line with this person in the house & will try to snowball & blame her behaviors on circumstances, people, etc.

    Given your difficult children age & complex issues insist that a seasoned worker be assigned to your difficult child. Not someone just out of school or who can be overwhelmed by a knowledgeable but loving parent. Many times the worker comes in looking for the worst out of the parents.

    Keeping you & yours in my thoughts.
  13. Jena

    Jena New Member


    im glad you and husband were on the same page it's never easy.... i've heard of these placements also. i agree take what's offered and let it go from there. if that's their suggestion, ok how long do we give it when do we revisit this and touch base to talk about "all" the progress this is having??

    good luck, deep breath, stay strong :)
  14. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Remember in ALL of this that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I know in our community a juvenile MUST be in major trouble where the police have taken them to psychiatric hospital/psychiatric services somewhere 3-4 times before they will even discuss Residential Treatment Center (RTC). usually they then tell you there is no facility or no $$ or no beds, but you cannot get to that point until the cops come to do transport for a violent child/teen. If a parent can get them to the psychiatric hospital then they are not so out of control that they need placement. It makes NO SENSE but is what it is. Then most places will tell you that they only take kids who are court ordered to be there, but the judges will not order it unless they have seen a huge escalation or the child has been int heir court enough that they are tired of dealing with them.

    So don't keep trying to do it yourself. Keep calling. Keep asking. Keep reporting to the caseworker, her supervisor, etc... They want to get you to think that they can't help so that you will go away and not cost their budget any $$. This seems to be the strategy here anyway. If she is violent at home, call the cops. Period. Don't try to keep her from getting a record, etc... MANY times the social workers told us that if he was really the problem we said he was then he would have a police record. he didn't, so it couldn't be as bad as we said.

    Just keep squeaking at them. Look at the things difficult child does to wear you down and use the same ideas to work on wearing the case wroker, etc... down. Those kids of ours have to be able to teach us something!
  15. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    DF, be careful with this. I don't know what state you are in or how they appropriater their funding, much less who in your state is authorized to sign the paper for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) placement (meaning which agencies are allowed to recommend it) but if you know my son's hx- which I realize is lengthy- my push for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) helped land him in Department of Juvenile Justice. The people in agencies here said the only way to get him help was to keep involving police and courts. I did that. Juvemile courts' people here believe (honestly, they said this outright) that Department of Juvenile Justice is the same thing as Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because it's a secure, structuredd, out-of-home placement. With so many jurisdictions hurting for money, it's almost impossible for any child with a bio-parent or guardian, who's not been turned over to dss and then deemed uncontrollable by dss, to get funding spent on Residential Treatment Center (RTC). I've been told that my son will probably never be sent to a group home, even a Department of Juvenile Justice group home, because "he has a place he can go that doesn't tap on their funding".
  16. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    I actually thought about your situation during the meeting.

    At one point, both therapist and caseworker actually recommended that we try the Department of Juvenile Justice route by calling police every single time difficult child got even the slightest bit out of control.

    I told them that so far, the police reports I had are mostly for NON-status offenses. I told them I had already discussed with juvenile officers what happens if difficult child gets picked up for a few more of these. Department of Juvenile Justice officers told me that if difficult child gets in trouble for another threat or an assault - she is looking at JAIL time, NOT therapeutic placement.

    At this point, caseworker said something completely ridiculous. She said "Well, if difficult child gets arrested for assault and Department of Juvenile Justice sentences her to jail, we'll just tell them that she needs to go to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) instead."

    I then asked, what level of offense will get her sentenced to JAIL instead of probation and house-arrest? I told them it would have to be a very serious assault - with somebody probably landing in the hospital....and that somebody was most likely going to be either my son or myself.

    I told therapist and caseworker that I was UNWILLING to sacrifice my family so that difficult child could be arrested and hope for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) as an alternative to jail.

    That's when I asked them to "pull some strings" to get difficult child a bed at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) we prefer - AND since it is a state-run facility, it accepts Medicaid. Parents pay a monthly sliding-scale fee... I told them we'd be more than happy to pay our portion. ALL we need is a phone call from caseworker or her supervisor to get difficult child in. All it will cost them is the phone call...

    I think it's a good "out"...

    And I'm hoping they take it.
  17. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    My son got this recommendation from two well-respected child/adolescent psychiatrists in this state. One was head psychiatrist of a psychiatric hospital that juvie sent difficult child to themselves. It did no good, despite his signed authorization, me having him accepted by a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) already, and having ALL funding lined up so not one penny had to come from Department of Juvenile Justice.

    But- that's because difficult child was already under the courts' jurisdiction and people in there fought against it so judge couldn't order it. See, in this state at least, if a judge orders it, it means it's going to come out of funding allocated to Department of Juvenile Justice. They won't do that here because they have Department of Juvenile Justice facilities- ie, juvie prisons. The judge CAN turn a kid over to dss, meaning the kid is transferred from Department of Juvenile Justice authority to dss authority. That won't work in my case because dss HAS to place kid with extended family member first if at all possible and my bro has himself officially listed as wanting custody of difficult child at any time, under any circumstances. Thus, my anger toward my family for preventing difficult child to get help this route. Next, a judge can turn a kid over to the mental health dept, or a parent can get a kid in the county/city mental health dept and they can get the child placed if THEY deem it necessary. You might want to check into that option where you are, since the sd isn't going to push for this. Keep in mind, if the sd pushed for it, it comes out of their funding. If another agency pushes for it, the sd still has to pay the educational component but they can't prevent placement if one of the other agencies declares it necessary. In my son's case, state mental health profs, along with private ones, deemed it necessary but because local mental health had not come to that conclusion on their own, the local MH rep listed to the PO at the time who told her not to sign off on the psychiatrist's order, meaning juvie courts would stay in control of difficult child's future placement.

    See why I hate difficult child's GAL and old PO and extended family?

    Anyway, difficult child's first 2 tdocs always told me to call cops, too, when he refused to mind, much less break the law. I sooooo wish I'd never listened to them. He had just turned 11yo.