Saying "potty" "pee" etc even the word bathroom leads to tantrums? Why??

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Confused, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Confused

    Confused Guest

    All of a sudden lately even if we are not talking about him going to the bathroom, (which we rarely discuss)bout us or the dogs they got. We cant say any words like the title says, even restroom, bathroom, visit our uncle, or he blows!"Even new words we say like " we are busy hold on please" he catches on and blows!!:confused:Why????So he yells it like --" I said shut-up!!" Sometimes with anger voice sometimes cry voice, constantly screaming shut-up I said don't say that!!! Slam door, bang etc!!!! Still walking on egg shells one day we can say hello he is fine later or next day he blows!!! Trouble getting him to take his pills, his mouth and threats are getting worse he even acted up in the vets office! Its over anything and everything, one day something is said or done is fine ..the next minutes its not. appointment is still early Jan for the Neurologist to adjust / change medications. He even got mad at me because I had to gently get him down from the couch /window in the middle of a rage and pushed me in the Christmas tree

    Grandfather says if we talk soft and just leave the room he will stop. Really??? Tried that for a long long time and nope. I mean we at least didnt have an argue war. Hes not wired like most kids as you all say!!! I am trying to explain that to him still!!! Anyway, just wandering why he started this.. ideas??? Thanks

    ( Took me a while to figure out the new forum and sorry bout the security issues but looks good still :biggrin:)
  2. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hmm. My difficult child used to have a tantrum if anyone whistled or sang except me. (One of the few things he "allowed" me to do!) You shouldn't have to whisper around your own son.
    This is all related to the bathroom activities, right? I would tell him to stop screaming or he will have to leave the room. Is he small enough to carry?
    Some things are nonsensical except to the kids, and you just have to teach behavior.
    Sorry I can't be of more help; I hope someone here has better ideas.
  3. Confused

    Confused Guest

    With those words yes, although he can say them when he wants. Of course there's times he wants us to do certain things like fixing food, homework etc depending on his mood bouncing between me or my dad. No, hes big for 7 years old and every time I would try to carry him out the room or calm him he blew up worse and became more violent. Usually he will leave the room wiith the bathroom stuff but he screams soooo loud he can be heard down the street. Most other times when he is mad and wants us out he tells us get out go to your room shut and lock the door.. in evil voices.. screaming too. You said it said how it is... "what your son "allowed" you to do" is how we live.. my son is the boss, Im sorry you had and are going thru all it to, but am glad you understand about the "allowing" part!!! People just say Im the adult control him but its really hard to. I am trying to teach it but its like nothing sinks in with him, no feeling bad after tantrums, but we will keep trying.

    What another great morning.. both kids refused to do homework & baths last night and both kids wont get up this morning!!! And then they get mad at US for THEM being late or absent from school!!!!!! Well, no matter how much we give and do, they take and cant do basic things like shower, do homework, go to bed at decent hour, no violence and help cleaning a little...but... thats my little world over here. Its just makes me sooo sad that I hear all these parents brag how their kids does homework, bath get up in the mornings has chores or volunteers to help them around the house. I love my kids... I just wander and am scared for them for their adult life. How will they make it? Daughter cant/wont talk, wont bathe, wont get tutoring.. son well as you all know is violent getting worse flunking school again,the threats of violent acts is getting worse..cant control himself anymore in public. Am I gonna see my babies on the news beating or killing someone, stealing? No friends etc? Its so hard to even know this is a huge possibility :( They both are losing friends as we speak.....
  4. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    Im gonna sound really mean and harsh here but I dont mean to. Im pretty sure I may be in the minority of the responses you are going to get but I think advice should be my real feelings and not something to just attempt to make you feel better.

    Your son is 7 not 2. He is plenty old enough to understand his behavior is wrong. I would take this on as something that is simply not allowed. I made a huge mistake listening to therapists who told me not to worry about the language he used because we had bigger fish to fry. Oh what a mistake! He now has a mouth that would put a sailor to shame. He can barely get through a sentence without cuss words in it.

    If I were in your shoes these are the things I would do. If possible, strip his room down to bare necessities like a mattress, pillow, blanket. He only gets his shoes and clothes when it is time to put them on. No toys at all in the room.

    Explain to him at a point when he is calm that things are not going to continue like they have been. His screaming and physical abuse will no longer be allowed. Tell him that when he does these things he will go into his bedroom and not come out for 10 minutes. Now the 10 minutes starts when he gets quiet and if he is quiet for 7 minutes but starts screaming again...time starts over again. He will figure this out.

    Then catch him when he is doing something good. Praise him. Not over the top praise but something like "boy you are playing nicely right now, good job." Oh, and you have to explain to him exactly what behavior you wont tolerate.

    If he hits you again, explain to him that that constitutes an assault on another person and it is against the law. They could take him from you if they want to arrest him.

    One thing I did when my son was 7 and I had a problem with sticky fingers in stores, I took him down to the juvenile justice folks. I had called them ahead of time so someone would be available to give him a talking to. This HUGE probation officer came out and took us both into a room. He made Cory sit in a chair while he talked to me and Cory was very quiet but he was swinging his feet. This man barked at Cory "did I tell you that you could move at all?" Cory got still as a statue. The man gave him a major talking to and told him that if he even heard his name again that they would take him away from his mom and dad and he wouldnt see us anymore. Cory didnt steal anything else for years and years.

    You could talk to the juvenile cops and see if they would put the fear of God in him about the screaming and hitting.
  5. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

  6. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I have NO idea how I messed up and have a post that isn't a post! Maybe in 2014 I'll figure out the new changes, lol.

    What I intended to post was this. Is there any possibility that at some location recently he was a victim of inappropriate touching? It seems very odd that all the triggers have to do with body functions. Perhaps you could mentally explore where he has been lately that "could" explain the new behavior. Hugs DDD
  7. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Thank you I am trying to get everything out of his room but he is not being easy to get in his room and take stuff out.. but I am. Its a good idea about you getting that Juvenile people to chat with him! My son says he will kick, beet them if he has too :( Im glad it worked for corey for a long time! I will try time outs again but he can go for hours screaming!!!
  8. Confused

    Confused Guest

    No he hasnt been touched, he can say the words but we cant. Plus its anything that gets him mad! This morning I was cleaning their fish tank and I told my dad" excuse me I need to pour this in the fish tank" ( water) and my son blew over that! Ewww I told you not to say that!!!( He yelled) He can be fine with the word fish tank a second or five minutes later or the next day I say fish tank and he blows! Same with paper towels , cleaning, radio, eat, pills, play ...anything. He is so sweet one second and the next second an evil violent angry child. He has been this way for a long time just getting worse. I never know ...Even in walmart the other day he literally was swinging the cart in circles out of anger and screaming the top of his lungs because I wasn't getting him EVERYTHING he wanted and people were walking by and he almost hit them including an elderly couple and he didn't care. He purposely ran into displays and isles still demanding where we are aloud to walk..when.. if im aloud to put the groceries in the cart...he just asked me if he can put their friends name directly on the wrapping paper instead of a tag cuz he ruined all the tags and I said yes he can also take scrap wrap paper.. and he blew!!! "Ok shutup " and my dad and daughter saying something about her food and he said" tell him to shutup.. shut his piehole as*ho$#" Omg!!! He has his rage and when hes done comes out not feeling bad or sorry... either still irritable or perfectly happy like nothing happened!!!! What in the world am I going to do??? medications are just not helping.. appointment is still Jan 3 and omg and I wish is was yesterday. He has to fight over anything and everything.. it can be a pencil, volume on tv, hes REFUSING his pills for couple weeks, he gets mad over soap, when we can talk how we can talk what we can say.. even when we are quit he still yells shutup . Bipolar I think something soooo much anger and rage. :( Just now he asked for scissors to wrap and I said I dont have them .... and then he yells I SAID SHUTUP and hes grunting/ growling slamming chairs around

    I thought I had the replies figured out but I dont! Sorry! Hope everyones Christmas is wonderful on this forum :)
  9. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Confused, was your son having this kind of episode, in the same kind of way, before the medications?
  10. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Yes Malika he was, and actually he really hasn't taken his medications for almost two weeks now.. off and on the Clonidine right before bed. Now, when the Dr upped the Adderall dosage from 5 mg to 10,he did better in school but he gained even more irritability and even managed over 20 plus tantrums a day even, he was even worse- from horrible to horribly worse so i went back down to 5mg and although his rages still here, still better than at 10mg. ( when he takes it) How is your son doing? I need to read you updates as soon as mine goes to bed tonight. I know you said he got more irritable too.
  11. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Confused, I don't believe all kids can control their outbursts. Not one thing will work for all kids either. Some do not care WHAT the consequences are. They either won't or CAN'T listen to you because of their wiring/temperament.
    Some kids whose parents come here are concerned about rather mild, if annoying behaviors. And some really are dealing with dangerous behaviors and not all those kids can stop what they are doing OR they have no motivation to stop because of something in their brains that we don't understand.
    No one thing will work for all kids.
    I was a difficult child myself, but if my parents had seriously called the cops or stripped my room, I would have been able to control myself to avoid these consequences most of the time. However, sending me to my room, well, I would have refusesd to have gone. Spanking? I'd say, "Do it again! Go on!" Didn't phase me. Once my parents took my beloved radio as a punishment. That was like taking a kid's internet away today.
    As soon as my mom had to run to the store, I went into her room, looked all over, found it and hid it from her and refused to tell her where it was. When you pushed me into a corner, I pushed back.
    I am definitely differently wired. While I was never violent, I was a PITA. You really have to see what works, if anything, with your particular child. And I was funny about getting praise. I would just think they'd made it up and I'd say to them, "Stop it! It's not true. I'm stupid and ugly and do bad things."
    Go figure.
    In time, you will find out the best way to manage your child...if indeed he can be managed at all.
    I certainly wish you lots of luck though!!
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    How about a different take on the situation... maybe he's just trying to exert control over whatever small things he can find to control? Maybe he feels totally out of control about everything in life?

    He can't control himself, at least not consistently. May not be able to "control" his body - some kids are clumsy or have other motor skills issues, or restless leg syndrome, or other physical issues. May not be able to control his listening - sometimes he hears, sometimes not, and it may not be his fault at all.

    So... what DOES he have control over? With out providing CHOICES (too complex), what kinds of things can he control?
  13. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Thanks MidwestMom- I see your point and am clearing out his room as we speak and hoping we find something that will work. Thank you for sharing how it was for you and what you and that gives me hope. Spanking and regular punishments dont work with him either.. sounds like you in a way.

    InsaneCdn, veery good point... he does have control over things but Im going to go over things again to see where I can give him more control over situations. He has made his chores list with guidence, ( he actually did well so I didnt have to say a word sometimes he cleans)...he has choice of dinner night / breakfast what he or us will eat ( everyone does have their nights so its fair) many times in the store we go where he wants first he almost always pushes the cart which is not a good idea because he rams it purposely everywhere.. He even makes his "punishments" at times... he brings meals down to my grandpa . Weekends he choses own clothes and after school ( school is uniform) he makes choices even for me I will play like I dont know what to do and ask the kids ( basic like going somewhere etc) He choses everything for his own pets and in limit the type of pets... just for some examples. But I will talk to him and word it on a way what he would like to choose" to do. Thank you.. I will put your idea to use today as well!!!!
  14. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Control seems to be the main issue behind the problems. (Isn't it behind most of the problems in the world? Kids NEED to know they are not the one in control of their world. They NEED this. Imagine being a small child and being the person in control of the entire house. That would be incredibly scary. You could not trust ANYONE to keep you safe if the house caught on fire, someone tried to hurt you, or anything else. Sure kids push for control, that is normal and natural. Of course difficult children push harder and faster and more and want to control even more than a easy child child would. But they NEED the security of knowing that the bigger, smarter, more educated person in the home can be trusted to handle things. I know that may seem counterintuitive based on what the child pushes for. Those limits give a child the FREEDOM to explore the world while safe in the knowledge that they won't be allowed to do anything that could truly harm them. The child does need control of small things, but not the big ones.

    Years ago a study was done to see what effect fences had on playgrounds. It was really an experiment to see how kids responded to the presence or absence of limits. the fence was a limit and the playground stood for their world. A playground near a semi-busy road was chosen. The children were first observed playing and they used every single foot of that playground. The ran freely, played right up at the fence near the road and never once seemed to give the cars an instant of thought. Then the fence was removed for a period of weeks. The children stopped playing at the edges of the playground. They became less active and they showed more nervous behaviors on the playground AND in other areas of their lives. The children would only play in the very center of the playground regardless of what toys, equipment or other enticements were at the edge of the playground. Then the fence was put back. The kids went back to using the entire playground and after a period of time the nervous behaviors subsided.

    I think this can be applied to our kids in MANY ways. Of course kids need control over some of their world, esp things that impact only them really. As long as it is weather appropriate, wearing clothing that is not matched or coordinated isn't something to fight over. If it really bugs a parent to see their child in odd outfits, a button saying "I dressed myself" can alleviate some of the embarrassment a parent might feel. It gives the child even more control and from what I have seen, many kids feel a greater sense of control if they do have a button like that as they are often proud of their outfits even if we hate them. Giving a child control over things like this is a good thing as it allows them to learn how to make choices and decisions in a safe manner without being responsible for the entire family/home/world

    Allowing a 7yo to refuse medications and dictate what the parents/adults can say? Not good for anyone in that situation. The child cannot help but wonder who is in charge and feeling very insecure and unsafe. Not that the child would give in to the parents easily, especially after having this control. Knowing the parent is willing to fight to make the child take medications or be appropriate with adults? This gives the child the sense of security that is so vital. The kid knows that Mom or Dad will not allow them to do something dangerous and will not allow anyone else to put them in danger either. That security is crucial to healthy development.

    I think that in some ways our difficult children need the limits even more than pcs do. On some level they are aware that they do risky things, and being allowed to control the adults who are bigger and stronger and supposedly smarter leaves them pretty sure that the adult will allow them to do things that will result in serious harm.

    In your situation I would probably sit difficult child down for a talk. I would apologize for allowing him to control decisions that he is not yet equipped to make. Explaining that I did not realize that his demands for control were expressions of his need for me to step up and take control so that he would feel safe, I would tell him that I was making some changes to our family life. From this point forward, he would take his medications when given them, that they were no longer optional for him, but I will ALWAYS listen to his thoughts, feelings and opinions regarding his medication, but the final decision was for his doctor and I to make together and I will do everything I can to ensure that he takes his medications as prescribed.

    I would let him know what I will do when/if he refuses. Personally I would tell him flat out that I would pill him like I pill the cat/dog/whatever pet (or like the vet pills the animal if you don't have a pet) if he refuses. If that is not your style or something you are capable of right now, you could say that everything he wants/enjoys/expects will stop until he takes his medications and he won't be allowed to go anywhere even out of the room until he takes it. Of COURSE he will refuse for a while, possibly quite a long while. You MUST follow through with whatever you say you will do from that point forward. It will be AWFUL for a while as he tests your resolve. By persevering you give the message that you will do whatever is in his best interests even if he hates it. Flat out tell him that you love him so much that you are willing to make him furious and to make him do something he refuses to do if it is important for his health and safety. Over time the message will sink in.

    For the tantrums over things you say, first explain that you were wrong to allow him to do this and that from now on he is not allowed to tell adults what they can and cannot say. Tell him that it is not appropriate and you love him enough to teach him good manners. You end up saying that a lot as he struggles and rages, but it is important. Personally I used to count and on 3 they got a proper time out. By proper I mean the sort of time out that Janet described and/or that you can see on episodes of SuperNanny or Nanny 911 or read about in books on parenting.

    The first time outs will seem impossible and like they will NEVER end or achieve anything. Over a period of time where you persist in not allowing him to control what adults say, you will have fewer and fewer problems with time out. It will take longer for him to learn this lesson and while he is learning it you both may be miserable much of the time. Persevere and it will be very helpful for the entire family.

    If you don't take steps now to set and enforce boundaries about this sortof behavior, it will help your child out in the long run. You may want to read "Parenting Your Child With Love and Logic" for help, ideas and techniques to teach you new ways to handle your difficult child's issues. One vital part of setting limits is to do it with love. Losing your temper and screaming will only reinforce the idea that tantrums get you what you want. Staying calm in the face of Hurricane difficult child Rage is very difficult, but it is doable. I used to have enormous problems with my temper, and a book called, "She's Gonna Blow: Real Help for Moms Dealing With Anger" by Julie Ann Barnhill was a HUGE help to me. It helped me identify the feelings that signaled that I was getting angry and to learn to calm myself when I felt those things. It was instrumental in getting a grip on my anger problems. It does have a strong Christian angle, but those parts can be overlooked if they don't fit your religious beliefs. At least I was able to do that.

    I hope this helps.
  15. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Hello Confused. I truly feel Susiestar has given some important advice here. She has said some things that are undeniably true, but which are also very hard to enforce, particularly for single parents (of which I am one). I do agree that it is right that your son cannot be allowed to decide certain things, for his own good. Certain things are negotiable and certain things are not. It is also true that difficult children will push and push against the limits. I have this problem constantly in regard to safety - riding his scooter, for example, my son will often go into the middle of the road (not particularly busy road, but still) as we are walking back from school and I have to shout at him, usually several times, for him to get back on the pavement.

    It's all such a fine line. Our different kids need different handling, to some extent, but at the same time need the limits that all children need to feel safe, as Susiestar said. Is there any kind of parenting course in your neck of the woods? If there was one in mine, I would certainly go on it!
  16. Confused

    Confused Guest

    susiestar- I see what your saying and I do not try to let him run the whole house or simply refuse his medications. Of course, when he demands us to shutup or get into a certain room .. certain place at the store etc I have given in just to calm him. I know not always the best idea. I do have my rules still.. for example the neighbors kids are aloud to play in the dark outside no supervision which I refuse to allow my kids and he doesn't like it but thats my rule. His medications if he doesn't take them id have to attempt to wrestle him like a cat or dog sit on him, pry his mouth open ( if possible) and shove it down his throat. Thats not possible. He is very strong for his age and I do need to figure a way to get him to take them again. Yes, taking away privileges until he does is one idea and I have started doing this. :) Of course the pills don't seem to be helping the way they should anyways. appointment is next week..

    You are right he needs to understand manors etc and I just started telling him if you dont want us in the living room etc, YOU need to go to your room which is your space to be alone. Or I tell him fine, then Im going in your room and he gets mad and says NO stay out, I reply" hey u want ME out so I will go to your room, he either gives in and lets me go in his room , he goes in his room or he just stops for a few minutes. I have yelled before but not losing my temper. Good ideas for the books, I will get those. We do have religion so it doesnt bother me. Well, wish me luck...Im going to give all this a try!

    Malika- I hear ya, my son does the same as yours where we have to repeat ourselves! Busy or not, I agree with you about no riding in the street!Im going to look up parenting support here again but its mainly for parents with the problems, the kids dont have any disorders/disabilities. Just stuff like how two divorced parents are suppose to handle the divorce and shared parenting ( been to that already) and parents who are on drugs/alcohol/ or parents who have the anger issues etc. But I shall keep looking. Id like to start a support group where I am for kids like ours but my family thinks its a bad idea in case some other parents are just there to start trouble or whatever. hmm I don't know...
  17. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    How is it going? Did the room get cleaned out? Have you changed any more medications over the holidays? Had any doctor appts?