Scared Out of My Mind....Need Calm and Solutions

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DaisyFace, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    I think difficult child has serious plans to hurt or kill her brother.

    I am trying to think of the best ways to protect him.

    So far, difficult child's docs are "keeping an eye" on her fantasies about killing the family. I sent an email first thing this morning that I think it has progressed beyond a fantasy to an actual now I have to wait and see whether they will take me seriously, or will blow it off. (as in O Mom, you're over-reacting...everybody says things like that when they are angry.)

    So, if the docs cannot get difficult child hospitalized somewhere for being a danger to others....what are my options?

    Police only come after the fact...or in light of concrete evidence. I don't have anything more concrete than difficult child's writings and Fb posts--not enough to arrest anybody.

    I cannot send either child to live with family:

    My parents - father is an alcoholic

    husband parents - father is a recovering alcohic attending court-ordered rehab, counseling and anger management classes for domestic violence

    Siblings - all of our siblings have children as young as toddlers--not safe for difficult child to be around them

    difficult child Friends - yeah, right. She doesn't have any close friends (much less friends that would let her move in with them...even short-term).

    So--I feel like I can pack a bag and figure out a new place for DS and I to live until it is safe to come back home. I know I can stay with my sister for a weekend...maybe a few days more....but she cannot take us in for any length of time.

    I have no job. husband's job can barely support one household, much less pay for another place...even a motel stay would be financial disaster.

    So what do I do?

    If I'm being unreasonable...please tell me. I feel like I am going out of my mind...
  2. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    O - I guess I should share what has been happening:

    difficult child has been asking a lot of questions about prison. inmates get candy bars? do they get library books? do they get their own bed?

    She wants to know a lot about sentencing. Like...If a person does X, how long do they go to jail?

    She has always made threats about how she wants to kill us and does get violent in anger...BUT

    She has been "writing a screenplay" about how our family gets hacked to bits in our own home....and difficult child considers it a COMEDY.

    AND she has been posting bits and pieces of this story on her fb page.

    She cornered DS and told him his life is worthless and she doesn't care of anything bad happens to him.

    She is accusing us all of "tormenting" and "torturing" her.

    Last night, she demanded that DS be punished. She feels that he must have done something really, really bad to her when she was three and now she hates him so much he is less than nothing to her.

    When we did not "punish him" as requested, difficult child began writing furiously in her notebook and stomped off into her room.

    Her thinking is so out-of-whack at this moment...she is scaring me.

    Am I crazy?
  3. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    The "screenplay" is a worry if she sees it as a comedy, but hopefully her writing it is defusing the need for her to live it. Writing can be very cathartic as well as very revealing. I hope you're keeping copies of absolutely every piece of writing you find. I think you need to, and you should forward this constantly to the docs.

    Think of the situations where a blackmailer who is meeting a victim for a payoff, takes out "insurance" by first making sure there are copies of the incriminating evidence already in envelopes in a mailbox somewhere (or on the way to be delivered to a mailbox, by a third person) so that only if the blackmailer returns safely from the meeting, can the envelopes be stopped form being sent.
    You need to think like that blackmailer, and make sure that if anything happens to any of you, the evidence is someone where safe.

    You may be needlessly concerned, or you could even be not reacting enough. I can't say. Personally, I think you're right to be concerned, especially if she is trying to tell you how to parent, and is also telling you to punish someone for something they may or may not have actually done, years ago. "I'm angry about it tonight even though it may not have actually happened; so punish him now because I want him to hurt as badly as I do," is not a good basis for disciplining someone. by the way - she says she was 3 when DS allegedly did something bad to her - but according to your sig, he wasn't even born then! That really IS nuts, if she wants to punish him for something that happened (maybe) before he was conceived!

    What happens if you ask her questions about her writing? For example, you clearly know about the content of her screenplay - what if you ask her, "Is this a comedy? What is it, do you think, that makes it a comedy?" Be as detached as you can, do not engage in any emotional stuff over it. Do not take it personally at any level. Just ask her for her opinion and do not comment on the validity of her opinion. But do write it down.
    Don't do that, of course, if you fear it could set her off. But it would be interesting to get some sort of idea of what she is thinking. Another interesting question would be, "What kind of feedback have you had form your readers, on this?'
    You compare her answers with whatever you understand to be the reality.

    But no way are you nuts. Not YOU, anyway.

    I think if we dug deep all of us could find something
  4. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    I don't think you're crazy at all... I'd be very worried too. Any chance you could get DS into a residential camp for a few weeks? Or, do you trust any of his friend's parents enough to say that difficult child is having a hard time and it could be affecting DS, could he have an extended sleepover? Meanwhile, I'd notify CPS that you have major concerns about difficult child and the potential danger toward DS. But be aware that they may move HIM and not HER. Put an interior lock on DS's door and make sure he uses it. Never leave them alone. Make sure he knows how to dial 911.
  5. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    I agree with notifying CPS and also check through your local domestic violence shelters. I know when we helped a woman get out of the house they arranged for all kinds of support--free legal, cell phone, temporary shelter and helped her find a permanent place, application for public support, helped her get a job, etc. They were incredibly helpful and made things happen that she couldn't have done on her own.

    Another thought to toss out there--your husband's salary isn't enough to cover one household but if you were two households you might qualify for some types of public support not available to you now.

    Prayers and hugs to you--do what you have to do to stay safe. I'd suggest making a copy of difficult child's writings and store them at another site away from the house in the event you need them as leverage.
  6. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    I think it's nuts that this is happening to more than one of us at a time... And speaking from the point of view of someone living something similar... Whether you are overreacting or underreacting, follow your Mommy gut. This is the most important advice I think I have ever gotten from anyone.

    HUGS. With ya 100%!
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think this is something you have to follow very closely. From what I have been told, normal people dont go around saying they want to kill people. Even fewer people have actual plans on how to carry it out. I thought I was normal because I verbalized it and vented my anger instead of actually carrying out the deed but evidently even thinking about it isnt normal. Who
  8. whatamess

    whatamess New Member

    If you can't send difficult child somewhere, can you send easy child to stay with someone for a while?
  9. PatriotsGirl

    PatriotsGirl Guest

    You can take everything she has written and have her involuntarily committed. My difficult child once sent me a text saying she wanted to die. I know she was just saying it for attention - she is much too full of herself to contemplate taking her life. But I called the police, showed them the text and they called for an ambulance. Once she was admitted into the emergency room they had her transferred to a psychiatric hospital involuntarily. You are not overreacting. Get her admitted.
  10. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Do you have to wait on her psychiatrists? I would take her to ER and demand a pysch admit for threats to harm. She sounds so scarily like Kanga - including the demands for us to punish the others for imagined slights from the past. Bring all the writings and refuse to leave until they admit her.
  11. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Have you considered the possibility that she is hallucinating? We didn't realize it at the time but one of the reasons Kanga was so violent and unpredictable was her voices didn't like us and were cheering on her plans to kill us -- as well as convincing her that her siblings did things to her.
  12. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I would have your son sleep in your room. If you don't already have a secure, key or coded lock on your bedroom door, I would get one ASAP. Let your son hang out in there with it locked during the day and sleep in there at night. I would try and get your son supervised activities away from her during the day (day camp, play dates, etc. - but make sure that everyone knows that your difficult child is not to pick him up or have access to him).
  13. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I agree--if you don't already have a lock and deadbolt on your bedroom door, do it asap. Have your son sleep with-you. He can sleep in a sleeping bag or whatever you can set up.
    I hope you have a bathroom in the master bedroom so you don't have to go in and out at night and lose track of the keys or whatever.

    Your daughter is definitely not connecting with-reality. I agree with-Marg, that writing is a very good way to release anger. Have you told her that? Would she think you are being sarcastic?
    When I first read that she told you she thought the murder was a comedy, I thought of the Addams Family. But then I read the rest and I thought, "Where's the humor?"
    Do you think you could engage her enough to talk about the humor and how to get to that point? Would she be receptive to any books on writing?
    I'm trying to find ways for the two of you to communicate on the same level, and bring her back to reality.
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    A deadbolt won't protect you. She could burn the house down. A friend of mine had a foster child who did that...fortunately everyone got out. When asked about it, he said, "I wanted everyone to die." I would take it seriously. Can she go to a residential treatment center? To be honest, I wouldn't want her in the house. It isn't a good time to find out she really DID mean it after the fact...jmo.
  15. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    MWM is too right... She could. If there is stuff written - that CAN be evidence.

    More than "I am terrified" - like me.
  16. Farmwife

    Farmwife Member

    I had to have my ex placed into observation at the psychiatric ward of a hospital, twice. Back before I was diagnosed and stable My mom had to have me checked in.

    I lived in AZ at the time and the process was very simple. All it took was a call to police with one of two criteria;

    1.Threat to self
    2.Threat to others

    When I called police on my ex it was quick and easy. I mentioned he was mentally ill, not stable and not medication compliant. I mentioned I was afraid because he had homicidal thoughts and fantasies and needed to get him to the hospital. They actually wnet into the house and into the bathroom while he was in the shower to get him by surprise...they took it VERY seriously. He left in an escorted ambulance.

    All I had to do was follow to the E.R. where a very patient and understanding staff asked me to tell the same info over again after which they typed up the court order and I signed it. Had he chosen to not be voluntary at some point they would have taken the court papers in to get the order. Fortunately he went along with the program. There was a security guard there the whole time to keep him in his room until he went to the psychiatric floor.

    The police just need to know there was a threat. I am shocked that you have to wait until after something happens. Maybe you aren't giving them enough of the right info?!?!? IYKWIM... Have you tried calling the hospital to ask if they would keep her if an ambulance came? Can you court order her through hospital without police help?

    Whether difficult child is joking or serious she needs help. "Normal" people do not make jokes about killing people or dwell on the subject at such great detail. You are better off jumping the gun and teaching her a valuable lesson about appropriate behavior than letting it go and feeling bad if she actually does hurt someone.

    We're not talking about shop lifting or underage drinking here...:anxious:
  17. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Find out where the nearest psychiatric hospital is. If you call the non-emergency police line they can tell you. Or ask to have an officer sent to your home. Print off everything on her facebook and get copies of everything she is writing that you can find. She is NOT rational and NEEDS to be in a psychiatric hospital or Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

    When you get her to the psychiatric hospital let them know that she CAN NOT return home. They will push you, but it is simply not going to be safe for her to come home. Regardless of how she snows them by acting sweet and innocent, she WILL take some kind of revenge if/when she comes home. You CAN tell the psychiatric hospital that returning home is not an option. Social services will be called. They may threaten you with child abandonment charges. For the safety of the entire house she needs long term intensive treatment before coming home can be considered. If need be go into a therapy session with her and bring up everything you can think of that makes her mad. Chances are she will not be able to maintain the sweet act and will let the real difficult child shine through.

    Until you get her out of the house do NOT leave her alone with easy child, not even in the same room while you are in the next one. Put good locks on easy child's room but make sure he stays with you or locked away from her during the day. Go through her room, maybe while husband takes her to a movie or somewhere. Make sure you check under the mattress, under the furniture, the bottoms of drawers and shelves for stuff taped there, etc... for anything that could be used to hurt someone, for more writings, and for anything else she is not allowed to have.

    She is at least delusional. Thinking her bro did something that is bad enough that he should be punished for it 12 years later, when he is only 11, is crazy. Her entire line of thinking is crazy. If psychiatrist might help get her admitted, call his office and get a secretary - press the number for appointments or whatever. Tell the person that you NEED to speak to the doctor or nurse NOW and that you will hold until they can come to the phone because your daughter is making plans to kill your family, esp son. If they disconnect you call them back - keep calling back until someone speaks to you. Sometimes psychiatrists can arrange beds so you don't have to do the whole emergency evaluations, so it may be worth the effort to get him on board.

    If you have a master bathroom off of your bedroom, use it when you need to during the day. Have easy child come with you and stay in your room with the door locked so difficult child cannot get in every time you need to use the bathroom. LOTS can happen in the time it takes to use the restroom. LOTS.

    You might want to search easy child's room also. It is not uncommon for a difficult child to hide things she doesn't want you to know about in the sibling's room. easy child would have been threatened severe harm or death if he told you about it. It is another way to make sure she doesn't have weapons hidden.

    (((((hugs))))) I know how scary this is. You are NOT overreacting, in my opinion. Follow that Mommy Instinct 100%.
  18. PatriotsGirl

    PatriotsGirl Guest

    Farmwife - same here in Georgia - threat to self or others - automatic stay in the psychiatric hospital...
  19. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Call or go to a domestic violence center. Tell them you need emergency shelter for ds and you because your daughter is planning to kill him. Use those few days to figure out how best to get her to a psychiatric hospital or to surrender her to foster care. If you cannot do anything else go to social services and tell them that you must give up custody of her because she is a danger to all of you. Make SURE they know that she is a danger to you and husband or they will want to take easy child and not difficult child. It will not be an easy thing to do, but it WILL protect you.

    In past years we have had parents who had to get restraining orders from older teens or adult children. A few even had to move with-o leaving a forwarding address in order to be safe from their difficult children. I doubt that your difficult child will stop at killing her bro, not as much as she seems to hate you and husband. She is a threat to all of you and possibly to any pets you have.

    I am so sorry.
  20. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Thank you, everyone, for the advice...

    I emailed the doctor at 8:30 this morning. I used her email because she told me this is the best way to get in touch with her if it is really important....

    As of now (5:30 pm) - I still have not heard back.

    husband and I have tried the emergency route with getting admitted to the pshosp many times before, and difficult child has only been hospitalzed three times. The other times, difficult child has put on her "angel act" and the counselors felt there was nothing going on that the regular, outpatient doctor couldn't handle. In my email message, I specifically asked the therapist to help us get her admitted somewhere.


    In answer to your questions, yes, difficult child really does find humor in violence. She thinks her story is so hilarious because the characters in the story (her family) are so stupid and its their own fault that they die at the hands of the killer. difficult child cannot understand why nobody else finds it funny.

    And yes, you are right about the math. difficult child was more than 3 1/2 years old when DS was born. So really, the "bad thing" that he did that made her so mad but she can't remember what it was? it's likely the fact that he was born at all...


    I thought you had a good idea about residential camp for DS. I looked up a few places online... School starts here in three weeks, so pretty much everything is full and/or over with. We tried to get in touch with his best friend, but looks like that boy's family is out of town for a while. I didn't realize that CPS would more likely take DS instead of difficult child...I would much rather move somewhere WITH him, than let him go to a foster home.


    I, too, thought domestic violence shelters would be a good resource. I couldn't find anything for my county listed online. I will have to make some phone calls tomorrow when I can get a moment on the phone without difficult child hovering around.


    Yes, scarily, we seem to be leading parallel lives right now. How come we can't be leading a parallel life with a lottery winner? Why isn't that an option?


    Yes, I would think that "normal people" don't talk about killing other folks just because they're angry...but too many counselors we have encountered think it's no big deal. I truly don't understand this...


    This I don't understand. I have showed all kinds of counselors some of difficult child's past writings and they have all shrugged it off....none of them thought it was enough to have her hospitalized. I wonder what is different from your situation to mine?


    It hadn't occurred to me that difficult child might be hallucinating....but it would definitely explain a lot.

    I think the plan tonight is to have DS sleep in our bedroom. I am a very light sleeper (gosh, I wonder why? NOT)....and I know that if things go bad I could help DS out a window or whatever it takes.

    FW, Susie--

    I will make more phone calls tomorrow to try and find out what the "magic words" are about convincing the ER that difficult child is a threat to others. I was really hoping that the doctor could help us get her in somewhere...

    Thank you!