school pushed too hard

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Jena, Jun 10, 2011.

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  1. Jena

    Jena New Member

    good morning,

    so, difficult child went in today to school as we had planned. she hasn't been in school all year due to 2 hospitalizations most of you know about.

    So, the plan I devised was she would spend a day just walking around the bldg. with-school pyschologist to re adjust to environment, and than work our way up from there.

    There is only a few days of school left, and due to school dragging their feet difficult child got back in too late. Long story short, she was ofcourse anxious on the way there, it's right down the road. Which is perfectly normal for a kid with her issues who hasn't attended in a long time. Yet deal we made was she does a walk thru and if she decides she'd like to attend a class than she can tell the school pychologist who will deliver her to that class.

    I should add the school personnel do not "get" my difficult child at all. Which I know many of us go thru. during our iep eligibility mtg. yesterday they fought tooth and nail to not give it to me. They looked at my husband and I like we were nuts when we explained difficult child's "wanting to attend school, saying she has friends etc. she's well liked, isn't paranoid" is her desire of how she'd like things to be. It is not "what is". they again gave us the "you guys are nuts" look.

    So, i walked in with her and met the school psychiatric we sat down for five minutes together. difficult child said tell her Mom, I said you need to learn to speak up for yourself. she sat and sat i'm not ready to attend a class, Yet i'll walk thru bldg. the school pysch shot back well we'll walk around and than if you want to attend a class you can. She didn't validate difficult child's concern's delve into ok why do you think your feeling anxious today, nada. right away i saw difficult child switch off and i knew id' be getting a call shortly thereafter to get her.

    sure enough I left her, returned home and phone rang exactly 25 min. later with difficult child saying mom i'm done please get me. Of which I did. I spoke to school psychiatric and said you keep repeating how my husband and myself know difficult child best yesterday at mtg. yet when i give you clues as to how to work her you do not listen. I told her the response she gave difficult child when difficult child advocated for herself and set her limits for the day weren't validated or even listened to she lost her.

    She gave me a synd look. I said I need Occupational Therapist (OT) get her in one class before school's out, so instead of handling her the way you did if you use my approach it'll work. Validate her concerns, listen to her and you will see that after a brief walk thru her anxiety will lessen slightly and she'll ask you can i go into a class now for a little while.

    We're due to return monday, i gotta get her up at 6:30 again for a big 30 minutes there lol.

    It's just another example of how us mom's know our children best, and how yet again school personnel in alot of instances do not and chose to take their own route with our children that isnt' always the most beneficial for the child.

    sorry i know this was long, yet i wanted to share that. :)
  2. keista

    keista New Member


    I HATE it when they do that to me. Happens all the time. I keep giving it right back every time the ppl that claim to "know" Asperger's says something totally idiotic. They never seem to notice or care. :stopglass:

    by the way I've found that school psychologists don't know much if anything about real psychology. I was very much shocked and dismayed at how ours handled my son and his situations when he hit very serious depression in middle school. What made it worse was that this was the same woman that was part of his IEP team since he started 1st grade. in my opinion they are pretty clueless to practical applications, and less than helpful.

    Can you get your own therapist to join on these walk throughs?
  3. Jena

    Jena New Member

    yes they need counseling i believe lol. I can't get our own doctor to show up for iep's so walk thru yea not happening...... that's ok each time this happens its' just one more step closer to my iep i think.

    they truly are clueless though. i mean some of it is common sense when dealing with a kid, right? i mean they say something you respond. school pysch is a twit. i've never said that word yet when i see her i think yup a twit. :)

    sh'es more in tune to her outfit her shoes matching her bag, that match the toes that match...... lol you get it. rest clueless............ I think i'm going to ask to do the walk thru on monday i'll get her to go into the class.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    This sort of thing irritates me to no end, I have recently talked to a teacher-aide friend and got a little of the mindset of some educators. by the way, they must tell school psychologists to teach kids to advocate for themselves as this is EXACTLY what Jumper is told...I swear, there is no flexibility in method or thinking. They don't like IEP's either, but IEPs are legal is what I finally decided...

    The schools are not really equipped to handle our kids. They are educators, not psychiatrists and through the years they have developed their own hardcore way of looking at "different" behavior. Apparently, teachers talk in the lounge. My friend works in an ED classroom. She says the teachers tend to blame the parents for "coddlng" or for t heir own behavior etc. for the child's behaviors. It is disheartening to say the least, however it makes sad sense. They know less about our children than we do, care a LOT less, and have other kids to worry about...and there is a bit of the "I-Know-More-Than-The-Parent-Because-I-See-Kids-All-The-Time" syndrome with a lot of them. So that's how they treat our THEY know more than WE do, sometimes with an air of "Let us handle it. This is partly YOUR fault."

    You need to get an IEP. The parent is part of the development of an IEP. Without an IEP, sadly, a parent has little power unless the educators are willing to actually listen. Some are, many are not. It is very frustrating when you hit a brick wall like this. I have been there many times. Start the IEP process (yes, I know it's slow). Get an advocate for your child. It's helps. They know your state laws. FIGHT.

    Chin up and keep us posted.
  5. Jena

    Jena New Member

    Hey mwm how are you? sheesh i'm so sorry i haven't been here to support all you guys. yet your always here for me. it's been kinda crazy with doctor's for me, mri's iep mtg.s difficult child ya know the deal....... hope your hubby's ok :) and yes their clueless with a capital C. I just called and said i'd like to take difficult child on walk thru monday with twit. i bet i can get her to go into a class. poor thing's so mad at herself today for not being able to.

    i said no way you did awesome you got in there, half the battle. i even took her for a manicure yesterday for her big walk thru. she's still in dumps though :( they set her up to fail...
  6. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I posted and it seems to have vanished. So I'll try again.

    I happened to think she did great, and the school counsellor did a good job. When I saw the title "school pushed too hard" I thought they had done something like shove her into a classroom and lock the door. That happened to the daughter of a friend of mine, very similar case to you and your daughter. My friend had been told by the hospital to send the girl to school for as long as she could cope, it would be okay to let her come home when she had had enough. So my friend did that. Made her go on the bus, as the hospital doctor suggested. Told her daughter to get the office to call her when she needed to come home. Then my friend waited for the call, as the day wore on she thought, "Wow, she's doing well!"
    But when the girl almost fell off the school bus at the end of the day, accusing her mother of lying to her, she realised something was very wrong. Turned out the hospital doctor had privately told the school to not let the girl come home when she asked, and to tell her that the mother knew of this and had endorsed it.

    So I thought from your heading, that the school had done something of that scale.

    But really - what more could you have expected from today's visit?I think the psychologist handled it well. By not validating the anxiety immediately, she allows the child to face it as far as she can handle, to begin to consider the range of possibilities. Immediately validating it would have meant difficult child coming home immediately after the walk through. This is what happened anyway. Nothing worse happened; it could have actually been the chance of even more. They let her come home when she asked, so difficult child knows that they won't break their promise or force her too fast. But to get her at least acclimatised now, at the end of the school year - it should make it easier for her to go back as normal in the new school year. And there isn't a lot of time left to play with.

    I know I bag out school counsellors and psychologists a lot, but in this case I think the school psychologist handled it well. And they are capable of getting it right sometimes! They do have some training, just not as much as a neuropsychologist, so when they try to replace the neuropsychologist, THEN I think we are right to be critical.

    I think you will get more of what you want from them, if you grit your teeth at their stupidity and work with them. Rather than "us vs them", if you go in with "You have given me almost all of what I want, and this positive outcome is the result. But if you can give me that little bit more, I think we can achieve the next level," then you have a better chance of success.

    It's about compromise and teamwork. I do think you had a success today, a much-needed one and it really was a lot to expect of difficult child, given all she's been through this year. I think she and you did great. It was a really good start, a great outcome so far.

    As for the looks - it's all in how you choose to interpret them. I personally respond only to what they say to me, or what they do. If I reacted to looks I'd have been dead long ago!

  7. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    Do you still have your CBT therapist? I would ask him to talk to the school for or with you.

    My daughter's CBT therapist did the exposures with her. Maybe you could get this therapist to be the one with your daughter as she walks around the school to get used to it. He and difficult child could identify stressors and come up with strategies to cope.
  8. Jena

    Jena New Member

    I can see my heading was a bit dramatic yet hey this is me afterall :) I dont' agree with you marg, I know difficult child well. Had she just talked to her a bit said ok np difficult child would of attempted a class. I can see your point with validating the anxiety, yet when a child says their feelings however anxiety ridden they are i think they have to be validated. the typical approach doesn't work with difficult child.

    we'll c how monday goes. i dont' think she did well, she simply walked her thru the bldg and from what difficult child told me asked her about 6 times do you want to go to class? kid got freaked and got out after 25 minutes. not the plan therapist and i had in place, not the right thing to of done. i'm sure she'll correct it now come monday. :)

    difficult child did great though. yet she beat herself up once home because pysch asked a ton of times do you want to go in there? even stood outside class after difficult child firmly stated i'mnot ready. just stupid.
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I can see Marg's point and yours. You know difficult child and know if ignoring her anxiety statements will work. The school psychiatric seems like a twit, and I have known many like that and a few good ones.

    I think walking through is hard, and she did it and that is awesome. Maybe if you take her to walk around the outside of the school on the weekend a couple of times it will help her feel more familiar with it? Just a thought.

    Why does this have to happen first thing in the morning? The school psychiatric and classes are there all day long. If morning is NOT her best time, then why not do it after lunch? Then she won't feel like if she tries one class they will push her to stay the whole day or stay until lunch? Surely there is a time that she is usually better able to cope - if it is first thing in the morning, fine. But if it is after lunch or late morning, why not do it then? it isn't like she will be going full days before school is out or anything. So pick a time and tell the therapist it is the only time due to your health issues/appts and it iwll happen at x time. If she fusses tell her that you are sure she can help at that time and you know that she knows that you cannot miss an appointment with the ms specialist about your new and serious health problem, and then let it go while she sputters. Maybe another staff member will do the walk along and will handle difficult child better. Even if you don't have an appointment you can say you do.
  10. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I don't think it was a waste. I was actually kind of thinking that expecting a day was to much from the get-go.

    In this instance, I guess I kinda see the school psychiatric not knowing how more than defying you on purpose. I have had folks with Wee that just plain will make no attempt to work with him. Period. My way or the highway. Then I have had a few folks who want to work with him, will do anything, listen to what I say, take it to heart, but then when the time comes to use that info, their interpretation is WAY OFF of what I said. Its not so much done on purpose as it is just really hard to put on paper (or words) how to read our difficult child's and then how to respond.

    Just the other day, I talked to the SpEd director about Wee's aid not ignoring him when he mouths off. (by the way, she's the only person left he mouths to...she's also the only one left who engages we know ignoring this behavior works) But when Wee would say something like "I hate you" she would respond with ""I'm sorry you feel that way. I like you" instead of just ignoring it.

    Parts of TEC and Collaborative Problem Solving are in his IEP, along with ignoring behavior. The TEC and CPS blurbs that are in there talk about expressing empathy. CPS works really well with Wee, but not in the heat of the moment...but once he's calmer, if you take the time to understand the problem from his point of view (which takes some practice in and of itself, because its often such a different perspective than ANYONE else's), you can help him come to a solution to the problem (but his perception of the problem, and your perception of the problem, are most likely not even in the same universe...) SpEd Dir said, isn't telling him "Im sorry you feel that way" being empathetic?" Well, sorta.

    If I tried to send Wee to be with you for a week with nothing more than an instruction sheet, well, it probably wouldn't be a great week, and not cause you wouldn't try.

    And let's face it, a lot of the kids some of these schools see ARE kids who just need more or better discipline or consistency...some of them would be in a world of hurt if they took every parent's account of their child at face value. Its irritating, to no end...but if you look at their world thru their eyes, its easy to see where things get mumbled up. (tho it makes me mad as hades what our district has done...don't know how many times they had plenty of time to learn, and wouldn't let me or others in to work with the people working with Wee...if what you're doing doesn't work, then you need to learn a new way....and that refusal ticks me off to no end...)

    Its like that old exercise where you and another person have to draw a picture together. Only you can see the picture that you need to draw, and only your partner can see what they are drawing. You have to try to give directions to your partner to draw it...and the outcome is rarely even close to the picture you were describing.

    I've found that using specific examples of real-life situations helps. As well as just allowing someone to observe first.

    But I don't see it as a total loss....I just see some room for education (of the educators!)
  11. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    I know schools can often drag their feet for IEP's which I think is stupidity at its best when they pull that. Your difficult child has obvious struggles and needs and a IEP is completely appropriate.

    Having said that, I think I must be missing something in your post or maybe you could clarify more?

    You said : she sat and sat i'm not ready to attend a class, Yet i'll walk thru bldg. the school pysch shot back well we'll walk around and than if you want to attend a class you can. She didn't validate difficult child's concern's delve into ok why do you think your feeling anxious today, nada.

    So to me, it sounds as if difficult child said I'm not ready to attend class but I will walk around the building. Then the counsellor responds with okay we're going to walk around the building and then if you decide to go to a class you can tell me and I'll bring you to a class. SOunds like she heard difficult child's statement, reworded it and said it back to her as the plan for the day. Am I missing something? Because I understand difficult child didn't manage to make it through the day, but I hear you unless I'm missing something here, thinking that the counsellor let difficult child down by pushing her somehow. But I don't see it pushing her to say okay lets do what you want and walk around and IF you decide to go to a class you can then do that. Sounds like it is JUST what difficult child what asking?? I would like to blame my addled brain condition for not understanding lol. But I think this is over my head somehow or something and because I too have experience with school NOT getting my difficult child, I wanted to offer support and input on your post but I'm failing to see how the school was out of line. Can you help me figure out what I'm missing?
  12. Steely

    Steely Active Member do have an IEP, right?
  13. Jena

    Jena New Member

    Steely no i dont'. i'm in the process of fighting for one and i mean fighting lol.

    it's a long story i just have an iep. i'm sorry i didn't know this thread was still open. so i'll fill you in on how it all happened. it's a good story. :)

    I spoke again to school pysch and school guidance counselor and i said it's not your fault you dont' really know her she wasn't here all year. Yet i think if you try my approach you will get better results. her biggest thing is safety and escape mode right now and knowing there is one and her "thinking" she's in charge. even though she isnt.

    so, they handled the next walk thru exactly as i said and guess what she stayed in the bldg. a little bit longer. i was pleased. I also agree that no one should of expected her to attend a class, that was never the plan. it was for her to slowly readjust to the bldg. she'd only been in for 2 days in september get comfortable than attempt a class.

    Well, they followed my lead again the 3rd day and long and behold with the school pyshc delivering her to each class and picking her up she attended 4 CLASSES!!! YES I SAID 4!!! how cool is that? i picked her up at the end of the day with my stepson like regular. granted the school pysch as i said picked her up and delivered her to each class at no time was she left alone in hallways, she ate lunch wtih school pysch.

    yet this was the last day of school and i was very pleased as was she with herself. there is hope now. that is all i think i needed to see her go to a class. alot of provisions will have to be put into place come september, and hopefully i'll get her iep in place. it was a nice end to an insane year. she still has in home tutoring through this week. yet thursday is the last day of finals for her.

    cool right? was crazy getting there though. this week we head to dr. to change out medications and im saying i want mood stablizer that's it we can't play anymore with all these anxiety medications that aren't working and the poor thing is now over 150lbs. she has stretch marks all over her legs on both from weight increase her arms a little also yet legs are very bad.

    so i've begun weaning down zyprexa, we're down to 5mg. im leaving it there till we get mood thing in place. i have her exercising everyday now for 30 minutes, i have her on a healthy diet i told her. i dont' want any eating disorders back so i'm watching my wording carefully.
  14. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Ok jen apparently I am the one today that is the thorn in your side.....but again I don't get it.

    She has been out of school for 9 months, cps was called, and you still don't have an IEP?You don't usually have to fight 9 months for an IEP, not with 2 phosph admits and your daus diagnosis. If your SD is being crazy-than you get a legal Special Education advocate which was suggested months ago.

    I am really upset for your difficult child that she does not have an IEP in place because she is absolutely not going to succeed in school without it. Please for difficult children sake get on the ball and get her the legal accomodations that she needs so she can be as successful as possible?

    And please please don't alter her medications without a psychiatrists guidance. It is very, very important that you don't take medication into your own hands.
  15. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    You've lost me here. When asked, " do have an IEP, right?", you replied:

    "Steely no i dont'. i'm in the process of fighting for one and i mean fighting lol. it's a long story i just have an iep"

    I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here!
  16. cubsgirl

    cubsgirl Well-Known Member

    Donna -- I *think* she meant that they have a 504 (I think that is what it's called) in place but not an IEP.
  17. Jena

    Jena New Member

    cubsgirl thank you for clarifying i appreciate it. sometimes my words dont' come out right..... :)

    Steely yes you are to be honest, i dont' appreciate the tone at all, no need to say get on the ball. I've been on the ball for years thank goodness. she'll get her iep when the school stops fighting me and i win just as i did after spending years to get her 504.

    donna sorry 504 is what i meant.
  18. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    Wait, in the hospital for an eating disorder, EVERYONE is on their own individualized meal plan, they meet with a nutritonist 1-3 times a week for the entire stay, and it keeps changing, by the way- the entire time they're there, AND nobody will be allowed to leave the hospital without a nutritionist appointment, SET UP for when you get home!!! They don't let you leave without that. PLUS, you leave with a meal plan. DEFINATELY! As her mom, are you following that? I asked you this before and you just never answered. It's really hard for me to believe any of this, especially when you stated that she could leave after she ate 2 meals, any eating disordered person would gladly do that just to be able to go home and "do their thing". She also wouldn't be "cured" like you said, they never use that term, it's in ALL the books written by doctors..ectI'm sorry, what you post about your experience is so wrong compared with the standard treatments, it's very hard for me not to think this is made up, when you say she gained this much weight. Where is the nutritionist???? What about the meal plan?
  19. Jena

    Jena New Member

    lol your all kinda funny lately.... thinking i make stuff up it's not real etc. what is up with all of you??

    As far as your question i'm sorry if I missed it, my daughter had a "food phobia" it's called, i often say eating disorder because it can be said with-o alot of questions. only one other mom here to my knowledge has experienced it and helped me thru it greatly and understood the true difference.

    Anyway with that being said the hospital she was in did not give a meal plan upon discharge and it isnt' handled as a true eating disorder. it's more of a fear of choking that causes it which ofcourse is anxiety related as with most of our kids issues.

    So, no no meal plan upon discharge and no nutrionist needed once home. Yes she has gained that much weight, and it is largely due to her zyprexa also which is known to cause weight gain as per her pyschiatrist. So, as I think I mentioned once she gets on a different medication this week when we meet with him he can bring the zyprexa down lower and hopefully get her off of it soon.

    As far as the school is concerned yes i did spend a little over two years fighting hard tooth and nail for her 504 accomodations, and now i am getting jerked around on her iep. yes I do have an advocate in place and we will try to get an attny if we can swing it if they dont' fold by mid summer so she can have the proper accomodations in place for fall.

    it is all very real, my life. from the hospitalizations, to the school issues to all of it. sorry it's unbelievable yet my life truly doesnt' allow me time to come in here and make stuff up... that would just be odd also. I would never think anyone would do that and that would probably have a name for itself in a form of a diagnosis lol.
  20. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    BS- every anorexic I ever met has "food phobia" then. Still considered an eating disorder, but you say it's not in the previous post. I'm not even going to engage again, I feel like I'm talking to my difficult child.
    Isn't the last day of school all fun and games, the classroom is all packed up and there are picnics and are jumping out of their skin. How can she attend 4 classes, aren't they over? I would think it would be awkward to go on the last day.

    Anyway, 504 plans are not legal documents...VERY easy to get, you don't have to fight years, or even a day to get one. What did you fight years for?
    IEP= legal ducuments, why the holdup with all the documentation you seem to have?
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