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Self-Forgiveness
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 667495" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Alright for Joseph, then.</p><p></p><p>So the wisdom in the parable is that, in telling the end of even this story, we are locking ourselves (imprisoning ourselves, again) into a version of reality that may have no validity.</p><p></p><p>Sort of like saying, "I don't know why this happened, but it did. And here I am. And I don't know anymore about why than they do.</p><p></p><p>But it happened.</p><p></p><p>And either we have faith, or we don't. Since we are still here, then we are here on purpose, and our job is to do whatever is in front of us to do in the kindest way we know to do it, today.</p><p></p><p>But here is the thing: Did Joseph's family re-enslave him. Did they resent and revile and reject him in their hearts.</p><p></p><p>I <em>did</em> prepare food for them.</p><p></p><p>And I suppose the answer is still the same.</p><p></p><p>Either we have faith, or we don't. And whether we do or not, here we still are.</p><p></p><p>Shunned.</p><p></p><p>roar</p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Graemlins/919Mad.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":919Mad:" title="Mad :919Mad:" data-shortname=":919Mad:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For me, this is the issue of self betrayal.</p><p></p><p>Do we betray ourselves because we've been betrayed. (shame) That is where we fell.</p><p></p><p>Into shame.</p><p></p><p>That was the wrong thing we did. And was probably the only thing we had a choice in.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But I think Joseph cried, when he saw the father's supposed letter, because he felt himself forgiven of the shame, of the stain of the betrayal, in his having been sold away from his family by his family. In that the letter proved that the father had believed, all along, that what the brothers had done in selling Joseph away was wrong, Joseph could come clean in himself, to himself.</p><p></p><p>There was validation, from Joseph's father, of Joseph's value in the father's eyes.</p><p></p><p>In that the father had validated him, Joseph could forgive himself for having been named a thing whose value in trade was worth more to his people, to his own people (!) roar <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Graemlins/919Mad.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":919Mad:" title="Mad :919Mad:" data-shortname=":919Mad:" />than he was, himself. Joseph could forgive himself for having been named, by his own people, as something with no intrinsic, irreplaceable, value.</p><p></p><p>Joseph was intentionally entrapped and exchanged for money, was used as currency in a game of power over.</p><p></p><p>Oh, wait.</p><p></p><p>That was me.</p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Graemlins/919Mad.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":919Mad:" title="Mad :919Mad:" data-shortname=":919Mad:" /></p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p><em>The highest function of love is that it makes the loved one a unique and irreplaceable being.</em></p><p></p><p>I forgot who said that.</p><p></p><p>But that is the sting of the thing.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">roar</span></p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/2012/yesssmileyf.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":yess:" title="yes :yess:" data-shortname=":yess:" /></p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/bag.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bag:" title="bag :bag:" data-shortname=":bag:" /></p><p></p><p>Well, so I am in an angry frame of mind, today. But what I see, even in this, is that the brothers still see Joseph as someone who hasn't the moral fiber to do other than what they would do, themselves.</p><p></p><p>So, given that the brothers take no responsibility for what they've done, going so far as to forge a letter ordering Joseph not to take vengeance, instead of manning up to their deceitful and jealous natures ~ which would indicate the change of heart that mandates forgiveness ~ in this, Joseph sees they have not changed.</p><p></p><p>So maybe that is why he cried when he received the letter purportedly written by the father.</p><p></p><p>The brothers believe him still to be a thing of no value; a person who can be tricked, but not a person who can be respected.</p><p></p><p>The brothers are despicable.</p><p></p><p>The other side of that is the craven nature of the brothers' own realities, and of how sad a thing it would be to know no other way to see.</p><p></p><p>It comes back to personal choice, again. To forgiving the self and requiring decency in our behaviors, and letting go of outcome.</p><p></p><p>It just is what it is. The brothers are in Joseph's power and still believe him to be trickable; they cannot see him as other than they are, themselves.</p><p></p><p>If there is anything to forgive the brothers for, it is that they cannot see him as other than they see themselves.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is what my sister says, too.</p><p></p><p>When she says she walks with the Lord.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p><em>He had conquered his emotions and reframed his understanding of events.</em></p><p></p><p>I don't know how to conquer anger.</p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Graemlins/9-07tears.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":9-07tears:" title="crying :9-07tears:" data-shortname=":9-07tears:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Appeasement of anger.</p><p></p><p>So, is the problem I am having with anger these days really an unmasking of the shame of having subordinated myself, even in the core of me where I am who I believe myself to be, to restore hierarchy?</p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Graemlins/919Mad.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":919Mad:" title="Mad :919Mad:" data-shortname=":919Mad:" /></p><p></p><p>Yep.</p><p></p><p>That's it.</p><p></p><p>And diffuse conflict?</p><p></p><p>There is a Rambo movie where Sylvester is tortured but refuses to give in until one of his soldiers is threatened. (By the torturing biatch ~ oh, wait. That was me.)</p><p></p><p>Okay. So, this makes sense to me, then.</p><p></p><p>If the soldier had then turned on Rambo and joined the torturers for dinner, leaving Rambo to eat all alone.</p><p></p><p>With no food.</p><p></p><p>So I should not blame myself that the soldier chose dinner with the torturers.</p><p></p><p>I would do it again; would go through it again. But here is the question: Did I ever have a choice, or am I making a fantasy of protection.</p><p></p><p>No, I think that was true.</p><p></p><p>The trauma times that I touch that are most traumatic have to do with my brother; with what was happening to him. There are other traumas, but they don't carry guilt. They are shaming, but they do not carry guilt.</p><p></p><p>Okay, then. I am sort of a hero. Especially when we remember I was just a little girl then, too.</p><p></p><p>I have my own table, now. As it was for the French in their meeting with the English king, it is "Very nice."</p><p></p><p>So.</p><p></p><p>That's good, then.</p><p></p><p>I am good, and not a worm, at all.</p><p></p><p>On we go.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Who did you hurt, Copa?</p><p></p><p>You were the victim.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The perpetrator may abase herself to the victim....</em></p><p></p><p>Copa, you were the victim.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Who have you wronged, Copa?</p><p></p><p>You are punishing yourself.</p><p></p><p>You are the powerful one.</p><p></p><p>I hear what you are saying in one way: That you believe yourself to have committed an unpardonable offense and, fearing vengeance, have punished yourself.</p><p></p><p>But you have committed no crime, Copa.</p><p></p><p>I hear you when you post about where you believe yourself to have committed actions meriting punishment...but I see those same actions as heroic.</p><p></p><p>As necessary, and heroic, and loving. Courageously defiant, even.</p><p></p><p>Yet you insist on interpreting your thoughts and actions as intentional unkindnesses.</p><p></p><p>A state of cognitive dissonance, because both interpretations are true.</p><p></p><p>Have mercy, for Copa.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It seems to me that Joseph restored his own dignity in acknowledging that his brothers did not have the capacity to be other than they were. There was no shame then in having been devalued and sold. He had not been devalued and sold by people like him, by people he could respect because they <em>were </em>like him. So, Joseph no longer felt himself in complicity with his own devaluation. </p><p></p><p>Joseph forgave his brothers for who they were. Not for what they did. Joseph made what sense he could out of what they did and in that, freed himself from their interpretations of his value.</p><p></p><p>Because they did not love him. That was the hurt in having been sold, for Joseph. The slavery, that part, he survived. It was the betrayal in the way the brothers (and the father) saw him, the betrayal in who they were determined he was, that Joseph needed to heal from.</p><p></p><p>Joseph needed to answer that question about who he was for himself.</p><p></p><p>All around him, all his life, every mirror reflected a dark and ugly reality.</p><p></p><p>In figuring everything out, Joseph, finding his self respect, was able again to love his own life.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, Copa.</p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/hugs.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hugs:" title="hugs :hugs:" data-shortname=":hugs:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 667495, member: 17461"] Alright for Joseph, then. So the wisdom in the parable is that, in telling the end of even this story, we are locking ourselves (imprisoning ourselves, again) into a version of reality that may have no validity. Sort of like saying, "I don't know why this happened, but it did. And here I am. And I don't know anymore about why than they do. But it happened. And either we have faith, or we don't. Since we are still here, then we are here on purpose, and our job is to do whatever is in front of us to do in the kindest way we know to do it, today. But here is the thing: Did Joseph's family re-enslave him. Did they resent and revile and reject him in their hearts. I [I]did[/I] prepare food for them. And I suppose the answer is still the same. Either we have faith, or we don't. And whether we do or not, here we still are. Shunned. roar :919Mad: *** For me, this is the issue of self betrayal. Do we betray ourselves because we've been betrayed. (shame) That is where we fell. Into shame. That was the wrong thing we did. And was probably the only thing we had a choice in. But I think Joseph cried, when he saw the father's supposed letter, because he felt himself forgiven of the shame, of the stain of the betrayal, in his having been sold away from his family by his family. In that the letter proved that the father had believed, all along, that what the brothers had done in selling Joseph away was wrong, Joseph could come clean in himself, to himself. There was validation, from Joseph's father, of Joseph's value in the father's eyes. In that the father had validated him, Joseph could forgive himself for having been named a thing whose value in trade was worth more to his people, to his own people (!) roar :919Mad:than he was, himself. Joseph could forgive himself for having been named, by his own people, as something with no intrinsic, irreplaceable, value. Joseph was intentionally entrapped and exchanged for money, was used as currency in a game of power over. Oh, wait. That was me. :919Mad: *** [I]The highest function of love is that it makes the loved one a unique and irreplaceable being.[/I] I forgot who said that. But that is the sting of the thing. [SIZE=1]roar[/SIZE] *** :yess: :bag: Well, so I am in an angry frame of mind, today. But what I see, even in this, is that the brothers still see Joseph as someone who hasn't the moral fiber to do other than what they would do, themselves. So, given that the brothers take no responsibility for what they've done, going so far as to forge a letter ordering Joseph not to take vengeance, instead of manning up to their deceitful and jealous natures ~ which would indicate the change of heart that mandates forgiveness ~ in this, Joseph sees they have not changed. So maybe that is why he cried when he received the letter purportedly written by the father. The brothers believe him still to be a thing of no value; a person who can be tricked, but not a person who can be respected. The brothers are despicable. The other side of that is the craven nature of the brothers' own realities, and of how sad a thing it would be to know no other way to see. It comes back to personal choice, again. To forgiving the self and requiring decency in our behaviors, and letting go of outcome. It just is what it is. The brothers are in Joseph's power and still believe him to be trickable; they cannot see him as other than they are, themselves. If there is anything to forgive the brothers for, it is that they cannot see him as other than they see themselves. That is what my sister says, too. When she says she walks with the Lord. *** [I]He had conquered his emotions and reframed his understanding of events.[/I] I don't know how to conquer anger. :9-07tears: Appeasement of anger. So, is the problem I am having with anger these days really an unmasking of the shame of having subordinated myself, even in the core of me where I am who I believe myself to be, to restore hierarchy? :919Mad: Yep. That's it. And diffuse conflict? There is a Rambo movie where Sylvester is tortured but refuses to give in until one of his soldiers is threatened. (By the torturing biatch ~ oh, wait. That was me.) Okay. So, this makes sense to me, then. If the soldier had then turned on Rambo and joined the torturers for dinner, leaving Rambo to eat all alone. With no food. So I should not blame myself that the soldier chose dinner with the torturers. I would do it again; would go through it again. But here is the question: Did I ever have a choice, or am I making a fantasy of protection. No, I think that was true. The trauma times that I touch that are most traumatic have to do with my brother; with what was happening to him. There are other traumas, but they don't carry guilt. They are shaming, but they do not carry guilt. Okay, then. I am sort of a hero. Especially when we remember I was just a little girl then, too. I have my own table, now. As it was for the French in their meeting with the English king, it is "Very nice." So. That's good, then. I am good, and not a worm, at all. On we go. Who did you hurt, Copa? You were the victim. [I] The perpetrator may abase herself to the victim....[/I] Copa, you were the victim. Who have you wronged, Copa? You are punishing yourself. You are the powerful one. I hear what you are saying in one way: That you believe yourself to have committed an unpardonable offense and, fearing vengeance, have punished yourself. But you have committed no crime, Copa. I hear you when you post about where you believe yourself to have committed actions meriting punishment...but I see those same actions as heroic. As necessary, and heroic, and loving. Courageously defiant, even. Yet you insist on interpreting your thoughts and actions as intentional unkindnesses. A state of cognitive dissonance, because both interpretations are true. Have mercy, for Copa. It seems to me that Joseph restored his own dignity in acknowledging that his brothers did not have the capacity to be other than they were. There was no shame then in having been devalued and sold. He had not been devalued and sold by people like him, by people he could respect because they [I]were [/I]like him. So, Joseph no longer felt himself in complicity with his own devaluation. Joseph forgave his brothers for who they were. Not for what they did. Joseph made what sense he could out of what they did and in that, freed himself from their interpretations of his value. Because they did not love him. That was the hurt in having been sold, for Joseph. The slavery, that part, he survived. It was the betrayal in the way the brothers (and the father) saw him, the betrayal in who they were determined he was, that Joseph needed to heal from. Joseph needed to answer that question about who he was for himself. All around him, all his life, every mirror reflected a dark and ugly reality. In figuring everything out, Joseph, finding his self respect, was able again to love his own life. Yes, Copa. :hugs: Cedar [/QUOTE]
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