She got fired.

[Kathy813]

She went to work thus morning, opened the salon, the owner came in and asked to see if "the key matched his.". He then took it off her keychain and told her he was sorry but that was not working out. She asked why and he said that "things did not go smoothly on Saturday and that she was too involved with the stylists. He also asked about a phone call she made on Saturday. When I questioned her about the call, she said it was to someone at the halfway house after she for kicked out. I think someone overheard the call and told him about it. HW had already seen her NA thingie on her keychain.
I told her to stay calm and focus in the interview she has coming up. I'm worried that they will check references and now this guy will badmouth her.

 

[AnnieO]

Kathy - state laws differ but if he badmouths her and she finds out, she does have legal recourse.

on the other hand, actually after the way he acted this is likely a relief.

As for someone ratting on her - possible - but the way this guy was? He probably had the phone tapped. Ugh.

 

[InsaneCdn]

She does need to be up-front about the situation in her next interviews, though. NOT putting the boss down - but statements like "it wasn't a good fit" - others may have better ones - but there are ways to let the new companies know that there is more to th story than what they will get from this boss.

 

[Signorina]

Tell her not to worry too much. And her instincts and yours were right; remind her of that! Maybe even sneak in a little compliment about her intuitive inner voice coupled with a reminder that this is good reason not to dull that intuition with substances...

(You know me-always looking for an "in" to sneak in a little advice...as if our difficult child's problems are due to lack of good advice, LOL)

 

[Nancy]

Oh I'm so sorry Kathy. It does sound like he was recording the phone and of course he can't admit that. Why did he just tell her that she was doing so well? Do you think she sensed it wasn't going well but was covering up?

When difficult child was fired this last time,she she how much they loved her and two days later she got fired. I thought at the time she either doesn't read people,well or she was lying to us.

I'm not sure she should use this job on her resume.

I think I will be posting much the,same soon enough. It really stinks that their poor choices keep holding them back and yet they don't get it.

Nancy

 

[DaisyFace]

Kathy--

I'm sorry....that really stinks.

Do you think the story is completely true? I'm just wondering along the lines of the phone call being overheard because perhaps difficult child was arguing with a person on the other end or some such...instead of the boss recording it.

 

[Kathy813]

Oh, trust me, I know anything that she says can be a lie. She did seem genuinely surprised to hear that they had posted the receptionist job on Craigslist yesterday. She was hoping it was for another part time receptionist. She did take a call from the department of labor regarding the last receptionist so I think he is hot water regarding her. I think he broke labor laws with difficult child, too, when he had her working 8.5 hours without any breaks.

So the question is ... What do we do now? Throw her out without a job or any means of support?

 

[DaisyFace]

I think he broke labor laws with difficult child, too, when he had her working 8.5 hours without any breaks.

FYI - There is nothing in the Federal nor State Labor Law in the state of Georgia requiring employees to get meal breaks or breaks of any kind. Same over here in SC.

 

[toughlovin]

Kathy,

I too am sorry this is going on.... but like Daisyface I am wondering if you are getting the whole story. Our difficult children lie so much I know that I have been taken in so often by what sounded real, to find out later there is a whole lot more to the story. My guess is she was probably fired for a reason and she may know what it is but doesn't want to tell you. I know I really can't believe a word my difficult child tells me.

TL

 

[trinityroyal]

So the question is ... What do we do now? Throw her out without a job or any means of support?

I think you should. You've given her a deadline, and for your own sanity I think you need to stick to it.

As long as your difficult child has a comfortable bed, meals and access to creature comforts, she has no incentive or need to look for a new place or a new job. She can continue to focus her energy on using. Everything you contribute to her upkeep means that all of her resources can go toward maintaining her non-functioning lifestyle.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think your difficult child is at a critical point in her life. Anything you do to "help" her at this stage will hinder her from developing into a fully functioning adult. If she has to focus her energy on surviving in the world, she will have less time and fewer resources available to use.

I'm so sorry that you're faced with such a painful situation.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Kathy,
If she has the interview Sunday, the new salon thinks she's still working at the other place, right? I doubt they would consider checking references on a job they think she still has. Maybe if she just plays it cool, and doesn't outright lie, they will assume she's still working; if they offer her the job, she can say she will start in 2 weeks, so they'll presume she's giving notice. Of course, she has to clinch the job first. If everything works out, she can use the 2 weeks to find another living arrangement.

 

[FlowerGarden]

Sorry to hear your daughter got fired. Definitely not good for her self esteem. Keeping my fingers crossed that she gets another job real soon.

 

[Nancy]

Ugh ugh ugh, no good answers. FYI Ohio has no labor laws for mandatory breaks after age 18 either. I was surprised to find that out when difficult child had to work 8 hours with no break once.

I don't know Kathy, this is so tough. I would think about having her find another sober house to live in. It's true, she is at a critical stage in her life and if you let her stay now she may just go back to the way things were before.

I'm so sorry this is happening. It is so difficult child-like. They can't hold a job because they can't conform to rules and they live on the edge so they continue to get into jams. I'm thinking of you friend and so sorry this is the way you are spending your spring break.

Nancy

 

[susiestar]

i don't know if you are aware, but if any employer tells someone checking a reference ANYTHING other than that the worker was employed from date 1 to date 2, they are breakng the law and CAN be sued. it is federal law, not state. ANYTHING they say could be used as a reason to NOT give the job to the worker, which is a violation of the worker's rights. I have worked for different corporations in different states who got successfully sued even though they gave GLOWING references. It is strange, but it is also the labor law. not every atty will take the cases because they are work, but that is how the law is interpreted. If you say that they were hard workers, and the employer is looking for good or conscientious or whatever other adjective workers, then it can be construed as a bad reference or blackballing.

Given this guy's abuser patterns, he is likely in trouble for something like that. I would NOT use it as a reference, and would hope that the salon she is interviewing with doesn't call.

ii had more wrtten, but when I went and read it, it came out ALL wrong and NOT what I meant to say OR how I would ever want to say something to you. I am sorry if you have already read it. VERY sorry.

I left the first part because it is the law as the companies I worked for had it applied to them, and in very different states that gave employees NO rights or power.

 

[Signorina]

I agree with Nancy...

I hesitate to put my 2cents in - my mommy heart is hurting for your daughter - and I completely understand that giving her the benefit of the doubt and letting her continue to live at home is the "ideal/easy child" response. I know if she were your easy child, you wouldn't think twice about opening your home to her. I also feel bad because the writing was on the wall with this boss and I really don't think losing the job was something she could control.

That said, I keep thinking back to you rushing home a few months ago after you got the call at work. I think about all the times I lowered the bar with my difficult child because I thought I was giving him reasonable 2nd chances. I think of you having to remind the police officer that your daughter is 26 and not just a run-of the-mill rebellious teenager. I think of how much you will lose if you let her stay with you. And that even an extended stay (just a few days past the agreed upon spring break) may just cause her to dig her heels in further. If I remember correctly, she has wanted to move home forever. This may be the chance she has been waiting for.

That said, I really do think keeping that job was beyond her control. But she broke the rules of the sober house and even in dire straights - she may have to be the one to pay the price. Can you find her a mission? Or a temporary room? I don't know... you are really between a rock and a hard place and I completely understand your dilemma and I know you must feel very conflicted.

Whatever you decide, I am with you 100%. Do what's right for YOU.

{hugs}

 

[DaisyFace]

That said, I really do think keeping that job was beyond her control. But she broke the rules of the sober house and even in dire straights - she may have to be the one to pay the price.

My issue is exactly this. She didn't just slip-up a teeny-tiny bit at the sober house - she pretty much crashed and burned. And yet....supposedly...she was behaving perfectly responsible at work. Showing up on time, professionally dressed, not the slightest bit drunk or hungover, and put in a hard day's work (with nary a break to get a cup of coffee!). And yet, the boss developed a dislike for her based upon his observation of a keychain and/or spying on his employees by recording their telephone calls. And based upon his own strange behavior, he decided to fire difficult child.

It is more likely that she was having trouble holding it all together EVERYWHERE. At the sober house, at work, EVERYWHERE. It was all un-ravelling at once.

So I don't think the question is really whether you should kick her out if she has nowhere to go...

I think the question is "What will it take to get her to work hard toward her OWN independence?"

 

[susiestar]

DF has excellent thoughts on the situation.

 

[Kathy813]

I was texting from my phone earlier and had to give short replies.

In more depth . . . the next job interview is not until the 13th. difficult child already put in an application last Sunday. She put down where she was currently working and that they could call for a reference.

When she got home and told me that, I told her that she shouldn't have said they could call. So we drafted an email and sent it saying that is was nice to meet the owner and that she would prefer that they did not call the current employer because she didn't want them to get upset.

The lady wrote back not to worry. She said they would not call the current employer until she accepted a position with them. So it sounds like she will call if she decides to give difficult child the job. I guess difficult child will just have to hope that they don't follow through.

In the future, I told difficult child not to put this job down as a part of her resume. It was only three weeks so it really won't matter.

As far as the rest of your replies, I really appreciate your heartfelt responses. I truly don't know what we are going to do. I really think she needs help with the mental illness or this will always be her life. I'm not even sure that sobriety will help if she still can't control her emotions and mood swings. I keep coming back to DBT and wishing she had stuck with it before. She mentioned it again today but I am afraid it is just a ploy. I asked her if she was willing to put in the $770 from this job (last check and what she gets as her last check) towards the DBT. That would take her through the rest of this month and we could see if she means it.

In the meantime, I told her that she is getting up in the morning at 8:30, getting dressed and then she and I would drive from salon to salon to salon dropping off resumes. I told her that we would do that all week. She agreed.

Yes, another vacation ruined for me. It would be so much easier to kick her out if she had a job and some means to support herself. If she is not serious about the DBT, I guess she will have the $770 to live on until she finds a job.

The sad part is that she is sober here. Just like before . . . only it only lasts for a couple of months and then she does something stupid. I asked her how long the sobriety was after rehab and she answered 97 days.

husband and I still haven't had a chance to talk this through alone. I don't know where he stands. Nancy, I did discuss with her the possibility of going to a much more restrictive sober house. She didn't say no but I don't think she will be willing to go. The $770 would also pay for the first month there.

I know that I am rambling. All sorts of things are going through my head right now. I keep coming back to the underlying mental illness. If drinking and using drugs was a result of cancer, wouldn't you try to fix the cancer or would you tell them that they had to get sober first and then you would try to fix the cancer.

I guess it is not a good analogy. Bear with me while I am trying to figure this out. I do think that she really wanted to be successful at this job and that there is some truth to the crazy boss angle. I remember her telling me on the first day about him warning her not to get friendly with the stylists and I remember one night when I accidentally called difficult child's work number and hung up when the owner/manager answered and then told her what I did, she got frantic and told me to call him back and identify myself and apologize because "you don't know how he is. . . he'll be paranoid that he missed a client's call."

So unless she was painting this portrait from the start as some big charade in case she got fired, I do think part of this is not difficult child's fault. And she showed me the slip of paper where she had written down the Department of Labor guy's phone number when he called earlier this week due to a complaint from the previous receptionist.

~Kathy

 

[Signorina]

You know Kathy - if it were cancer and the drugs and alcohol were prohibiting the cancer treatment from working, you would have no choice but to treat the drugs and alcohol first.

I know the cancer analogy is flawed and you wrote so yourself. I prefer to think of my easy child as being trapped by the difficult child and there are multiple boulders holding him hostage. I think my son's biggest boulder (or first boulder) was the assault & the head injury. I don't know if his underlying problem is neurological, or trauma based or if he fell into a bad crowd because of the assault. But I do know that he has layered lots of boulders - failure, disrespect, pot and alcohol on top of the big boulder...and we can't get to the big boulder (his assault, your difficult children mental illness) until we remove the boulders laying atop it. (pot and alcohol) In order for my difficult child to be treated for what I think is his main issue - he has to stop self treating (medicating) himself. And until he realizes himself that NONE OF THIS IS WORKING for him, it's futile. I almost wrote pointless - but it's not POINTLESS, it's just futile. Pedantic maybe, but maybe not. I don't know, it's such a dichotomy...

Follow your head with your heart. Put on your warrior mom armor. And please, please please talk it over in depth with your husband. Even easy child daughter too. two or 3 heads are better than 1

just food for thought...

and I am in your corner...

 

[toughlovin]

Kathy I can totally relate to your concerns about mental illness and the addiciton issues. It is hard when they have both, although most serious addicts probably do have some of both. When my son was hospitalized back in Sept the hospital really thought he might have a personality disorder (which made a lot of sense). There was a great DBT very intensive program that sounded great for him... but it was going to take a bit to get into it. I was excited about the prospect and he wanted to do it. So they had him in an outpatient program and then he used one night and really crashed and ended up back in the hospital. At that point they would not consider him for anything until he did a 30 day inpaitent substance abuse program... and we started down the current winding twisty path.

What I got from that and in reading about dual diagnosis... is it is really hard to diagnose and understand what the mental health issues are while someone is sitll using. That is what makes it so complicated! I think to really deal with the mental health issues they need to first get sober... now it does not make sense to require them to be sober for long before getting help with the mental health stuff... because it is those issues that send them back to the substances. But I think it is somewhat pointless to try and address mental health issues while they are still using.

It makes it all very complicated I agree.

TL