She was angry at us and she grabbed a knife (gory details, be warned)

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by LostMama, May 26, 2010.

  1. LostMama

    LostMama Guest

    I honestly didn't know who she was going after but she cut her arm to the bone. Gory. Called 911. She was transported to the children's hospital. I rode with her. She didn't really mean to hurt/kill herself. She was trying to lash back at us...because we put her on a 24 hr restriction for cussing me out. So her response was to grab a kitchen knife and cut through tendon & muscle in her left arm. Well, we think she meant to do a superficial cut but her anger carried her away. I spent the night with her in the hospital. She *barely* avoided 8 stitches and will have a splint. I'm shocked they didn't need to sew stuff back inside. {{shudder}}

    I felt like we were on an upswing here. We had a plan and we were working our plan and seeing success. Now I feel lost again. She despises us. She told me so last night. I don't know what I can do to help her.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Is this your niece? I assume it is. And I assume her parents are messed up and couldn't take care of her, never a good thing for any child.

    Was she maybe exposed to drugs or alcohol and fights, maybe sexually abused? If so, it is NOT you or your care of her. She is like most kids from disrupted childhoods...she could even have reactive attachment disorder.

    If she is dangerous to your younger ones, or traumatizing them in any way, maybe you should look into an Residential Treatment Center (RTC).

    I'm so sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately, a lot of times we see our kids on the upswing just before the other shoe drops (which makes us often always on guard). We did foster care for older kids for a while and some of the older kids just could not be saved, no matter what we did. It's very heartbreaking. When we realized how much our younger kids could be hurt, we stopped doing it.
  3. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator


    Is she going inpatient now? That's a pretty scary scenario... she seems like a danger to herself and others. :surprise:
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I hope her psychiatrist is going to send her inpatient now. That is scary.

    You are going to have to go through the ENTIRE house and lock up ALL the knives, scissors, sharp anythings. It won't be convenient but it will help keep her from doing this again. Next time it may be one of the other kids or even you or husband.

    Your sig says she is bipolar but the medication list shows no mood stabilizer. Until her moods are stable she isn't going to be able to use the tools she learns in therapy and from you and husband (tools to handle emotions). Most people with bipolar require at least one first-lline mood stabilizer in addition to an antipsychotic like abilify. Sometimes a second mood stabilizer is needed before the person can handle even small amounts of a stimulant or antidepressant. Vyvanse is a stimulant and may be fueling some of these behaviors.

    Please talk to the psychiatrist about putting her on a mood stabilizer. It may help keep her from hurting anyone, including herself, again.

    Sending lots of hugs, I know you are upset and shaky and scared after seeing and dealing with this.
  5. tictoc

    tictoc New Member

    Sending you lots of hugs. Please keep us updated.
  6. idohope

    idohope Member

    definitely scary. Hugs to you and as tictoc said keep us updated.
  7. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Very scary. She definitely sound like she needs to be in patient right now. Hugs.
  8. xlagirl

    xlagirl Guest

    I agree, get all the knives out of the house and scizzors too. We had to do that with our 8 yr old as he is always threatining to kill us or kill himself.
    While at Children's Hospital they should have brought in mental health for an assesment, and she would have been taking straight to inpatient at a psychiatric hospital. If she was trying to harm you or herself, she needs to get immediate help!! These thoughts won't go away just because she hurt herself!

    Please follow up with a psychiatric hospital or her doctor to get her the help she needs. Don't wait for another incident like this to happen.

    Best of luck~!! (HUGS))
  9. LostMama

    LostMama Guest

    Thanks guys. Susie, I asked her regular psychiatrist about the mood stabilizer at her last appointment, about a week ago and she gave me what sounded like a rational explanation for not doing that. something about abilify being a newer medication and that the 1st line rec was based on older medications. She said that adding the mood stabilizer brought additional risks. I don't know, at the time it made me feel like she knew about the recommendation but that she made an informed decision to not prescribe it. I will ask the psychiatrist at the hospital.

    difficult child was released from medical yesterday and admitted right to the psychiatric floor. We all feel that her action was more of an impulse thing vs actually trying to hurt herself. She wasn't suicidal, she was just ticked off at us (me & hubby) because we put her on a 24 hr restriction for not being respectful. So she was lashing out but she was the victim. Right after she cut herself, she screamed and freaked out because she didn't mean to actually cut herself so deep. She said 'I'm so stupid. I can't believe I did this.' She's a cutter so she's used to cutting herself. Cutters don't usually commit suicide. Anyhow, she combined the cutting with her rage and just got carried away. I'm not trying to minimize what she did because it IS a huge problem. The docs & I believe that it was her coping skills that caused her to make a poor impulsive decision vs her wanting to end her life. Anyhow, I believe this would affect whether or not she would go inpatient. Well, I guess we will find out. I really believe that she wouldn't do *this* again. Now I'm just concerned about whatever impulsive decisions she would do. Well, I've always been concerned about that. I guess I'll see when we meet with the hospital psychiatrist. I missed him when he came through yesterday.

    Not sure where we go from here. difficult child doesn't have problems when she's not here. She has a lot of bottled up anger that is directed to those living here in our home. She says she wants to live here but she is also miserable here. There is a chance that we could relinquish custody and return her to her mom...but I am convinced that WOULD cause her to go suicidal. Inpatient sounds like a good idea but I worry about what insurance wouldn't cover. Some of the parents in our support group talked about their out of pocket costs and it was scary!
  10. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    A person out of control during a rage can easily kill themselves or someone else whether they are feeling "suicidal" or not...

    The episode you decribe sounds a lot like the kind of thing my own daughter will do. She gets so out of control during a rage that she smashes things...and sometimes injures herself during the process. She doesn't mean to hurt herself, but she will end up bleeding anyway.

    Likewise, if she were to take that aggression out on someone else...she could easily cause serious injuries or even kill with her out of control actions.

    Your daughter's "intent" does not matter as much as whether she can keep control of herself....and from the sounds of it, she cannot keep herself under control right now. She needs some serious help.

    Hang in there! I hope your insurance will cover enough to at least get her a short in-patient stay in psychiatric hospital...
  11. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I agree that the intent doesnt' matter much, it's the action itself. My Youngest also didn't "want" to kill herself, in fact, she used to count the number of pills she'd take when overdosing for that reason, and would tell the doctors how many she'd taken. That didn't make it any less dangerous, however.. and she was admitted to inpatient each and every time she did it. Ultimately it was what pushed DSS into finally paying for an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) as well, because she kept doing it. I wasn't afraid she really wanted to die, I was afraid she'd accidentally succeed. I also believed she might have, if she hadn't gotten into an Residential Treatment Center (RTC).
  12. LostMama

    LostMama Guest

    Just back from a visit. difficult child seems to think she may be released tomorrow because she didn't mean to do what she did. She is giving them all the answers they want to hear about what she learned. I haven't actually talked to the psychiatrist about what the plans are here. I left my number for him to call me.

    We did find out that our insurance covers 30 days of inpatient care, period. It wouldn't take too long to use those up!

    And I agree about those who expressed concern about her action vs intent. Yes, it's her dangerously impulsive nature that has my stomach in knots.
  13. LostMama

    LostMama Guest

    I spoke to the psychiatrist tonight. Well, he's not just any psychiatrist, he's pediatric psychiatry medical director of the our local children's clinic. (I had previously heard great things about him when we were looking for a psychiatrist but he didn't take our insurance so I couldn't pick him.) Anyhow, he feels comfortable releasing difficult child tomorrow. He said that we already have everything in place (she has a psychiatrist & psycologist) and that we should just keep strong. After talking to her extensively, he feels that this was a big wake up call to her. She was remorseful and she realized that she made a really poor choice when she grabbed the knife. He even suggested that we get info on camp consequence to deal with her oppositional behavior. Ha! I told him that we were already in the program. He thought it was a great program and told us to just continue what we are doing and that he believes that this incident will be a turning point for difficult child. We talked about locking up obvious danger items (guns, medicine) but that I shouldn't worry about locking up every little thing because if someone is bent on hurting themselves, they will find a way. He really doesn't think that is an issue with her.

    Gosh, I'm having a hard time remembering what else we talked about. We had a good long conversation. Anyhow, looks like she will be heading home if our family visit goes well tomorrow.
  14. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am glad you spoke to her reg psychiatrist about the medications. It is a good sign that she is at least aware of the guidelines. I have run across quite a few psychiatrists who honestly were not aware of them. I hope you and the psychiatrist can find the right medication combo to help your daughter.
  15. LostMama

    LostMama Guest

    She was released on Friday. Since then, she has spent most of her time with friends so we haven't had any big issues yet. She did get angry at us because we vetoed 2 outfit choices that made her look like a hooker. It's funny how a pair of shoes can make an entire outfit look sleazy. Change into converse tennis shoes and poof, she's a kid again.

    Anyhow, while she was gone, hubby closed in the opening in the pantry with a wall & shelves. The previous owners had a fridge there. We moved our fridge out so we had an opening into the pantry. The pantry door has a skeleton key lock and now that the wall is properly closed, we can lock up knives and other stuff in the pantry.
  16. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    difficult child was released from medical yesterday and admitted right to the psychiatric floor.


    I agree, that impulsiveness on that scale can lead to permanent results. I'm glad she's getting help.
    Meanwhile, I hope you are able to get some sleep.

    PS Is she on antibiotics? Just wondering, since you said the cut went to the bone.
  17. LostMama

    LostMama Guest

    Yes, she's on antibiotics. They gave her an antibiotic via IV during the time she was in the hospital and then they sent her home with antibiotic pills.
  18. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I hope things are calmer now and that she can get some needed help.
    Take care.
  19. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    How's it going?
  20. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Hope things are calmer at your house today, LostMama.