Should I be Worried?

Marguerite

Active Member
DaisyFace, what if you try to avoid challenging her on the "Is it real?" angle quite so hard? You can still inject some balance by putting in terms of "There is still some discussion on this," or simply ask her, "Is it in the DSMIV criteria?"
If you put it as questions, especially ones she will need to check up on for herself, then she will hopefully be less likely to fly off the handle.

The concern expressed here is that she's not really hinged in reality but is hiding this from the therapist.
Let's look at the mirror image, what she sees you doing - at the therapist's, she was allowed to talk about Renfield Sydnrome. You said nothing at the therapist's about Renfield not being a genuine condition; in fact a lot of the questions carried the implication that Renfield's is real. "Do you think you have it?" and her answer, "No, because I don't have the symptoms."
Her answer implied it is legitimate and this apparently was not challenged. You did not challenge it at the therapist.
And now you're alone together, you challenge it. At least this is how she sees your behaviour - secretive and unstable.

I'm not saying you are, but this is what she could be possibly seeing in you - someone who says one thing to the therapist and another to her.

I think at the moment it is really important for her to make a solid attempt on tis paper and not have the opportunity to blame you in any way (even unfairly) for any blemish or deficit in that report. Because really, this report is going to argue your case much more effectively than anything else.

So let her have her head. I agree with your suggestions to her about the questions, but with all of it, leave it as suggestions. You don't want her saying, "Mum made me write this," in any way whatsoever.

It is going to be like watching train wreck in slow motion, you need to sit on your hands.

And the controversy over the diagnosis being legit or not? Ask her to outline the history of Renfield's Synrome from its first description to the present day. WHich doctors proposed it, which argued for or against it, where the land lies now. If she wants to add an opinion piece on what she thinks of the situation, then let her - that is a good idea.

Right now it seems really important to her to cling to this belief. The more you try to being it up, the more oppositional she's getting about it. You are not going to change her mind; in fact, the more you insist, the more she is going to cling to this chauvinistic idea on principle (one wonders if Nicholas Chauvin had ODD?)

Eery time you report a problem with her, it seems to have centred around you trying to get her to see this with some balance. I agree she needs balance, but
1) she's not taking it from you;

2) Balance from you is not balance from her, it is imposed from without and therefore is not really in independent existence in her head, therefore can only mask the problems and not really help.

This is not easy; but then it's been a nightmare for you lately anyway. I do think you need to let this train wreck happen (or at least let the train get a little closer to the oncoming truck so other people can see it too) because if you don't, the problems will continue to get worse until a bigger train wreck is on the horizon.

I also wonder if a part of the blow-up with you was because when she tries to get down to work, there is this barrier in her head, a sort of uncertainty over where to start next. We all have experienced tis at some time, that initial writer's block - but I suspect she wants this to be perfect (in her opinion) and therefore is setting it up for failure unwittingly. I remember doing the same thing myself with essays at uni, at a time when I was badly stressed. One essay was brilliant, I had written it on parasitology and it was almost complete, it just needed a couple of concluding sentences. But I couldn't think of them and the deadline ticked up and past, and the essay was never handed in. My stress had triggered an exacerbation of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and anxiety, it paralysed me and shot my performance down in flames.

SO try to keep her anxiety down, try to let her make her own mistakes in the writing but yes, phrase your suggestions as questions and let HER own the choices she makes with this.

I know that means still tiptoeing over eggshells, but this paper is vital for her treatment, as much as for school. The more she has control over what and how she writes it, the more it will show the problems.

Last suggestion - you need to keep your own secret b/u copy of tis paper as it progresses in case she gets totally upset and deletes the whole thing. If she does, let her face the consequences of this in school, but show the drafts to the therapist.

Marg
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
The concern expressed here is that she's not really hinged in reality but is hiding this from the therapist.
Let's look at the mirror image, what she sees you doing - at the therapist's, she was allowed to talk about Renfield Sydnrome. You said nothing at the therapist's about Renfield not being a genuine condition; in fact a lot of the questions carried the implication that Renfield's is real. "Do you think you have it?" and her answer, "No, because I don't have the symptoms."
Her answer implied it is legitimate and this apparently was not challenged. You did not challenge it at the therapist.

Marg--

You are exactly right. In fact, at the time we were discussing Renfields at the therapist appointment, I didn't catch the significance of the difference.

It was only after the blow-up, when I began wondering what the heck happened...that I realized that difficult child had said she did not "have the symptoms". We never actually addressed whether Renfield's Sundrome was real. I don't know why I didn't catch it at the time. Probably because I was so relieved to hear her say she did not believe she had it in the first place.

And then yes, I got home. I felt like we had clarified that difficult child knew fantasy from reality and therefore she must know (if she had read anything at all about this disorder) that it was not recognized as an illness. And what I thought was a reasonable suggestion prompted a hostile response.

I think at the moment it is really important for her to make a solid attempt on tis paper and not have the opportunity to blame you in any way (even unfairly) for any blemish or deficit in that report. Because really, this report is going to argue your case much more effectively than anything else.

It is going to be like watching train wreck in slow motion, you need to sit on your hands.

Right now it seems really important to her to cling to this belief. The more you try to being it up, the more oppositional she's getting about it. You are not going to change her mind; in fact, the more you insist, the more she is going to cling to this chauvinistic idea on principle (one wonders if Nicholas Chauvin had ODD?)

Eery time you report a problem with her, it seems to have centred around you trying to get her to see this with some balance. I agree she needs balance, but
1) she's not taking it from you;

2) Balance from you is not balance from her, it is imposed from without and therefore is not really in independent existence in her head, therefore can only mask the problems and not really help.

This is not easy; but then it's been a nightmare for you lately anyway. I do think you need to let this train wreck happen (or at least let the train get a little closer to the oncoming truck so other people can see it too) because if you don't, the problems will continue to get worse until a bigger train wreck is on the horizon.

Try to keep her anxiety down, try to let her make her own mistakes in the writing but yes, phrase your suggestions as questions and let HER own the choices she makes with this.

I know that means still tiptoeing over eggshells, but this paper is vital for her treatment, as much as for school. The more she has control over what and how she writes it, the more it will show the problems.

Last suggestion - you need to keep your own secret b/u copy of tis paper as it progresses in case she gets totally upset and deletes the whole thing. If she does, let her face the consequences of this in school, but show the drafts to the therapist.

Marg

Marg--

I think this is a really good idea--but you are right, it is going to be hard for me to sit back and watch. My instinct (much like Janet's response) has been to try and reason with her, share examples, give her more information etc. On some level, I guess I've been thinking that maybe she is simply mistaken and did not have the correct information.

Thanks so much for taking the time to really analyze the dynamic...

--Daisyface
 

Steely

Active Member
Matt went thru something very similar, only it was some other very obscure, odd, psychiatric issue. At first I freaked out, and thought he was just "so odd, so out there" - why on earth would he want to relate or be part of that "disorder"?

However, I then realized that he was trying to identify his thoughts with something or someone. He so needed to feel normal in some sort of capacity, that he would go to great lengths to do this.

I really feel as if this could be your daughter. She wants a disorder to explain her issues so that somehow she feels normal again. She wants to feel as if there are others out there that have felt the way she does. She wants someone to relate to.

I think if I were you, I would do some research with her on this topic. I would partner with her, and explore this disorder together. If you let her know that you care, and that you believe her concerns warrant exploration, I think she will totally back off of this tangent. I think that she simply does not want to feel alone. If her Mom cares enough to "figure her issues out with her and on her own terms" - than I think she will relax and get to the root of the true problem.

Has she had psychiatric testing to determine if she has distorted thought patterns or issues?

Hugs. I know how hard this is. Grrrr..........:mad:
 

Marg's Man

Member
Just a quick technical help.

If you're using Word or NeoOffice, get into the preferences and set it to do an automatic backup every half hour or so. If you can't do it yourself, check the Help feature. Grab copies of the backups and keep them on a memory stick for the therapist.

Margs Man
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
I think if I were you, I would do some research with her on this topic. I would partner with her, and explore this disorder together. If you let her know that you care, and that you believe her concerns warrant exploration, I think she will totally back off of this tangent. I think that she simply does not want to feel alone. If her Mom cares enough to "figure her issues out with her and on her own terms" - than I think she will relax and get to the root of the true problem.

Has she had psychiatric testing to determine if she has distorted thought patterns or issues?

Hugs. I know how hard this is. Grrrr..........:mad:

Psychiatric testing is scheduled to start Saturday (only a couple of days away, and yet somehow, not soon enough!)

You may have a really good point about working with her on this...

But I think it may be too late. No, not because difficult child is "too far gone" or anything like that...but because of what Marg noticed. That possibly difficult child views me as having ulterior or antagonistic motives. Marg may be very right about that.

I am a natural questioner. Can't help it. Anything I hear, I have a question. Usually it starts with Really? Wow. What about....?

difficult child's stories have always fallen apart under questioning. Always. I don't know whether it's deliberate lying or something else, but she cannot keep a story line consistent about anything...no matter how mundane. So a natural, give and take conversation with her is very difficult.

It probably also explains why she has such a hard time maintaining friendships.

--DaisyFace
 

Steely

Active Member
It will be interesting to see what testing reveals. She may have a learning disorder of some kind that affects her ability to process information. I know with Matt he has trouble thinking in a linear fashion, and that showed up on the testing.

To partner with her on this now it is probably too late, you are right. But maybe the next tangent she is on, you can try it and see what happens.

I know when Matt was 12 he decided that there were aliens and UFOs and did all of this research on them. I never could bring myself to do anything but dispute his theories. Later I realized how hyper critical I was, and just because I have a more scientific brain, did not mean I needed to minimize his ideas. It is hard though.
 
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