sibling sexual behavior

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by joders, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. joders

    joders New Member

    I've called our psychologist and she is talking to her supervisor, she mentioned that an investigation may need to happen, not sure what happens to my stepson after an investigation but after all this stuff happened I was already googling psychiatric holds...I am so worried that he is a danger to my stepdaughter in so many ways, not to mention as many of you already know it's not necessarily an ideal environment for a easy child to grow up in either.

    On my husbands way home from picking up the kids last night (they spent the week at their grandparents) difficult child thought it would be funny to lift up his shorts and show his sister his penis (all this happened while my husband was sitting right in front of him), we grounded him for the week and sent him to bed. I then had a talk with Zera the next morning, it turns out that difficult child had been very forceful with her at their grandparents place, including grabbing and making her go into the bed with him, and at one time even came in the room when she was changing and touched her vagina.

    The psychologist mentioned natural curiosity but the thing is that this has been going on for a year, not to the point of touching but he is guilty of very inappropriate behaviors with his sister and we have gone over boundaries over and over, he's not responding to us and keeps taking things further. My husband has considered having the talk with him but is concerned that once he knows what it's for he might try and use it on her.

    We've been told that until they can give us an answer about what is going to happen that he needs to be supervised 24/7, which is fine for most of the week because I took it off to prep them for school, but I work tomorrow and they were supposed to go to a daycamp which the psychologist doesn't want him going to now because he won't be getting the monitoring he needs and could be a danger to other kids. So now I need to figure if I can take that day off, between all his appts and not being able to find proper childcare for him I fear I'm going to lose my job. I know he would benefit from having somebody home 24/7 however my husband is only a 2nd year apprentice and until he's a journeyman living on one income is just not an option for us. I'm looking into government benefits but I don't know if they consider him a true disability.
  2. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I had something similar happen to a friend probably 10 years ago only the son had actually abused his stepsister. When that all came out the mother had to take her son with her out of the home immediately and live in some sort of motel or something. In the home they had to put alarms on all the doors just in case something more was going on with the other kids. She was mom and stepmom to 7 kids.

    We ended up bringing the offender to live with us for about 3 months while the state looked for a proper placement for him. We were given the okay because I have no girls (at least at the time) and my boys were all older than him.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    We adopted an eleven year old boy who sexually acted out on my two younger kids. It's not safe to have a child like that in the house and it is impossible to monitor him closely enough to know if he will do it again. It's not a behavior problem. He was either abused himself sometime (most likely) or saw sexual stuff happening. I don't know about his early years, but maybe they were chaotic and maybe he lived with mom and maybe she had a slew of sleazy boyfriends come and go. Regardless, it has damaged him to the point where he has been inappropriate for a long time now, probably longer than a year. The victim rarely tells the whole truth while the predator (in your case an eight year old boy) is living in the same house. Curiousity is consensual. When a child makes his sibling do sexual things that she doesn't want him to do, it is no longer consensual.

    This is not being a disobedient child. This boy is very disturbed and your husband doesn't seem to understand that just talking to him won't make him better or worse. He needs serious, serious interventions and even then...who knows? Kids who act out sexually are dangerous. Curiously, does he seem cruel to animals or is he fascinated with fire or does he wet the bed? This can all be part of a cycle of a child who was himself abused and is not abusive other children (or at least one child).

    Be sure to get therapy for your daughter. As for your son, I'm not convinced he should live in the same house as your daughter. Or any younger girl child. Even if you just go to the bathroom and they are alone together, he can be a threat to her and I agree with the psychologist that he should not be in a situation like camp with other children. The child we adopted no longer is a part of our family. I am not saying you should do that, but he may not be able to live in your house in a safe way and you may have to parent him while he lives in another place.

    I'm really sorry that you had to live our nightmare. ((((Hugs))))!
  4. joders

    joders New Member

    Thank you for sharing your experience. Yes I don't believe that anybody is listening to me when I say he is a threat, because it started out with kissing and going into her room when she was changing, and I kept saying this is only going to escalate, unfortunately nobody listened to me before it did escalate. I'm waiting to hear what the psychologist says, whether or not there will be an investigation. I personally agree this is not a child that should live with other kids, ecspecially younger ones, he also has another biological sister who lives with his biological dad and they see each other at their grandparents, and I'm starting to worry about her vulnerability as well.

    To answer your questions, when I first met him (he was 5) he was abusive to animals, as well I caught him kick his newborn cousin in the head while she was laying on the floor. Since we have had him full time (we have a ton of animals and are big animal lovers whereas his mom hates animals) he has seemed to build a compassion for animals, but if he gets bored you can still catch him do something minor to get the animal to react. No fire fascination, but definitely bathroom issues, he wets the bed every night.
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Bedwetting is a separate issue. Some kids will deliberately urinate/defecate in unusual places on purpose.

    I don't remember from prior posts, but... any chance of prenatal exposure to drugs and/or alcohol?
  6. joders

    joders New Member

    there is a possibility, but we can't be sure. my husband met difficult child's mom when he was a year old already so he missed the pregnancy, birth, and the important first year. she may have been on anxiety medications, and she smokes, but when it comes to recreational drugs and alcohol we really don't know. The one thing I'm sure of in that house is that there was a lot of neglect, and a lot of couch surfing. Alot of times his mom would sleep all day leaving him (5 at the time) in charge of his then 2 year old sister. it really is sad because I like to believe that had he been raised in a normal, loving environment he wouldn't have turned out this way, and it's so hard because neither my husband or I want to give up on him but he's not responding to our rules and consequences, and I don't know if he ever will.
  7. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Bring up Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)/Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE) to the psychologist... because if it fits, what he really needs is a highly controlled group home or similar, just for Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)/Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE). You can still parent him from a distance... his Dad can still go visit etc., but... he really can't live at home, any home, not even as an only kid because no "home" can ever really offer 24/7 supervision.

    Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)/Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE) is both more and less scary than, say, Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). There isn't much that changes a Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)/Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE) kid - they really can't learn this stuff, it's more about keeping them safe from themselves. Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), caught early enough, MIGHT have some chance, but can also be scarier if treatment fails because they know what they are doing...

  8. joders

    joders New Member

    This whole thing is terrifying....I am upset with my husband and myself as well for allowing them to go together to their grandparents, unfortunately the grandparents (my husbands parents) don't understand the magnitude of his issues and there were many times when the kids were left alone in the house watching a movie while they went out to have a beer and smoke and that's when a lot of this stuff happened. I sat down and really talked to my 5 year old some more to get a clearer picture of what happened and all of a sudden 8 stories of similar behavior came out from over that week! there were instances of him making her stay in the bathroom until she touched his penis, making her sleep with him, and touching his other sister's bum. I sat down with him so I could see if he could add anything, he confirmed all the stories were true except for one he denied happened. I asked him if he could explain why he was doing these things and he said he had no answer for me. I guess we need to wait and see what happens, and if there is even an investigation or if they're going to chalk it up to curiosity, but either way I am going to push hard for some help with this one because I am agreeing with him not being in the house, there are just too many other horror stories that may have started out this way.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sounds like attachment disorder, perhaps because he didn't have a stable few early years. Of course, drugs and alcohol in utero don't help. Children do NOT experiment on unwilling kids. Playing doctor is not the same thing as showing an unwilling sister your penis. That's edging on abuse. It needs serious attention. A lot more sexual stuff could be going on than Sister will dare to say. And maybe this kid has already hurt a neighborhood animal...what he is doing is not normal and when we raised an attachment disordered kid he faked he liked animals too, then he killed them and blamed other people (convincingly). Peeing/pooping all over is not in of itself a sign of attachment disorder, but along with the other symptoms, it could be.

    Sounds like Dad is seriously minimalizing very serious behavior that can destroy your little family and put all of you at risk. Glad psychologist is smart enough not to recommend that this kid go to camp where he has a ton of kids he can abuse. Seems like psychologist has an understanding of the severity of his problems.

    Hugs to you. I sort of hope this becomes investigated. Probably best if this boy has to live in another setting where there are no pets or younger children. You can still visit him. And you can breathe a sigh of relief that Daughter is safe.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    you are in Canada.
    The country of line ups for health care.
    The only way you are going to jump the queue is that YOU have to be pulling the triggers. Not them.
    You MUST let them know that there is no way you can provide 24/7 supervision, and that the incidents from the week at the grandparents' place was way over the top.
    YOU must insist that he is an immediate threat to the safety and well being of your daughter.
    He MUST be removed... NOW.
    They can figure out what to do with him, afterwards.

    Call psychiatrist back. If they won't place him immediately, take him to psychiatric hospital and refuse to take him home.
    Call social services if you have to.
    But... the wheels will NOT move very fast, unless YOU are driving.
  11. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Thank heavens I have not been there done that but I have been a parent forever and a member of the CD family for well over ten years. You do not have a choice. If you leave him in your home YOU are guilty of child abuse...and your husband, also. Your daughter "brightens your day" BUT you need to demonstrate that her needs have been recognized and she is very very important to you and your husband. You just can't pretend that this is not serious. It is beyond serious. I am truly sorry that you have to do this need to take action now. Hugs DDD
  12. joders

    joders New Member

    Thank you everyone, yes I completely agree he needs to be removed from the house, and I 100% agree that these counsellors don't seem to take things serious unless you force their hand. it's funny because I spoke to his psychologist and then to his family counsellor at community services and she had a totally different take, telling me that we need to acknowledge that he's a child too blah blah blah, she is wonderful to talk to but is more about the love than taking a hard stand. I don't believe having him here is worth putting my stepdaughter in danger, not to mention we are trying to have our own baby who I don't want to put in danger either. I'll post again when I find out more....

    Do any fellow Canadians know if this kind of stuff is considered a "disability" for the child disability benefit? with all the time off work we can use all the financial support we can get...
  13. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Nope. been there done that. Physical disability qualifies easily. Mental disability that makes you physically incapacitated counts (such as Alzheimers).
    Otherwise... no luck, that I know of.
  14. IT1967

    IT1967 Member

    I just want to comment about the bedwetting. My son was wetting the bed every night. It was NOT a behavioral thing for us. He had slowly been staying dry through the night more and more consistently until we started on the Risperdal. Since I cut wayyyy back on the Risperdal, *knock on wood*, the bedwetting is almost completely resolved. Our friend who's a psychiatrist confirmed my suspicion which is that Risperdal can cause the bedwetting at night. Just something to consider. Good luck with-it all. I'm sorry you're going through this.
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Kids who are sexual (and often grow into sexually inappropriate men) don't know why they do what they do. It's a compulsion and usually jump started by abuse of themselves that they block out and don't remember. When Psychokid was asked why he did what he did, he also had no answer and when asked if anyone had ever had sex with him, he said he couldn't remember anything happening, but it obviously had. It is very common for sexual acting out on a child to be so traumatic for the child that his subconscious takes it in and leaves him with no memory, but that subconscious still knows it happened, even if Little Johnny doesn't remember and so Little Johnny does what was done to him, which made him so ashamed and so angry.

    Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)/Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE) is another issue. and not related to sexually acting out. It is a separate problem. Not a fun one either.

    When we were in counseling for the sexually acting out that Psychokid did to our other kids, the expert on childhood sexual abuse told us that the victim is usually so afraid of the perpetrator that once you find out it happened, you only get a tip of the story, especially the degree and amount of the abuse. On the other hand, like your son, your daughter could be blocking it out partly as well. My two kids who were abused by psychokid for two years do not remember what he did to them. Jumper remembers it happened, but not details. Sonic doesn't remember anything at all, but he was a big part of Psychokid's abusing.

    We are very lucky that we got good help. Neither of those two children are sexual because of it. Since Psychokid went to court and was charged due to the big age difference, there is a record of what happened to Jumper and Sonic. From time to time, I bring it up in a rather generic way. I want them both to know that this happened in case t hey get flashbacks as adults. I don't want them to wonder if it really happened or if it was a dream or if it was really Dad who did it...before I am gone, I am going to write the story down too. If memories come back, they are often fragmented...this is fertile ground for dissociative identity disorder, although most sexually abused kids don't get that. But that explains how the brain protects the child from the memory of sexual abuse.

    I'm sorry you are going through this. I had a feeling that this kid was sexually acting out...I am sorry to be right this time. Either get him out of the house or tell husband you are leaving with the girls until he does.
  16. joders

    joders New Member

    IT - thanks for the input but my stepson just started on Risperdal 2 weeks ago and has been bedwetting every night since he was 5, so in our case that's not the issue, however it's good to know that it won't be helping the situation....

    Thanks for the input's very good to get the different takes on the situation. my stepdaughter is sleeping in our bed tonite and my husband and I are going to sit down and talk about what is best for the family, and I'll be talking to psychiatric doctors tues/wed about whether he can get help elsewhere because simply put we do not have the resources to monitor a child 24/7 and I'll be ****ed as someone said that 5 minutes I had to go to the bathroom something else happened, then it's my fault for not doing something about it sooner.
  17. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    You're safe here, but when you're talking to THEM?
    It's not "whether", and it's not "when".
    Its: where, and now.
  18. joders

    joders New Member