So angry I can't even see straight!!!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by ATaLOSS, Oct 28, 2009.

  1. ATaLOSS

    ATaLOSS Guest

    Just another example of how my 'ex in denial of difficult child's condition' and his attempts at trying to make me nonexistent in difficult child's life..... Sent this to him last night. And yes, I document every message I leave, every day that goes by with-no response, etc. CAN the courts order a 'phone schedule'? Anyone?

    "At 7:25pm on a Tues evening, it is not unreasonable for me to call to talk to my son. I promised him last night I would call this evening. You answered and told me he is not with you. You said you would have him call me tomorrow. I asked where he was and you said he is "at home". I said surely there is someone with him that can have him call me. Your response of "I'll have him call you tomorrow, thank you!" before you hung up on me, is controlling and insensitive. It is NOT UP TO YOU to decide what days I can speak with (difficult child). I prefer to talk with him everyday - as most parents would. If I call at an inconvenient time and (difficult child) needs to call me later, that is no problem. But the fact that I have repeatedly called and left messages and sometimes by the third day I will get a return phone call is extremely unfair. I've ask (difficult child) on many occasions if you have told him I've called after a day or two of no return phone calls, and he says no. How can daily contact with his mother, or at least the knowledge that I have called, be denied of him?

    (difficult child) has told me that you told him if I "want to talk to him so bad then I can buy him a cell phone". Age 7... a cell phone? I will buy my son a cell phone, when it is age appropriate, so we can talk freely when we want to, every day, and several times a day if we feel like it.

    If it has to come down to a court battle for a judge to call out a "phone schedule" to allow me access to my son, then so be it. Otherwise I will continue to 'inconvenience' you because I will not give up being a daily part of his life - even if through a simple phone call."
  2. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    Your ex sounds like my ex. You have my sympathies.

    But, you're right. A judge is not going to stand for the custodial parent denying the non-custodial parent access to the child - even if it's through a phone call.
  3. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I agree with Heather. No judge is going to stand for the custodial parent denying phone contact, especially with a 7 year old little boy.

    I've been off the board for a couple weeks so I am sorry but I am not familiar with your story. Sounds like difficult child has been living with ex since he was 5 (two years ago)? Is the a formal or informal arrangement? If it's informal and ex does not have legal custodial rights and you two don't have anything in writing, it may be harder to do something about this.

    If his custody is legal and in your settlement, what does it say about visitation, etc.? A lot of folks write that kinda stuff, like phone contact, attendance at school functions, etc., into their papers.

    You start off your post by saying "Just another example of how my 'ex in denial of difficult child's condition' " Is this a case of difficult child only acting out around you? Is he doing find in school and fine at his dad's house? Or is this just a case where his issues are always present and bioex doesn't answer the clue phone?

  4. ATaLOSS

    ATaLOSS Guest

    Hi there LittleDudesMom~ I posted for the first time the other day- a LONG post! Clearly in need of others who can relate and offer advice and encouragement. The thread is now on the second page - "Alone in my battle to help my 7 yr old". If you have time to read through the posts, they'll answer your ?s. I am so relieved to be a part of this forum and now have a safe place to talk with-understanding people with-similar stories and situations!
  5. TPaul

    TPaul Idecor8

    Hubby is being a jerk, I agree. Not sure of the legal standing, maybe others can offer advice on that.

    Aren't their cell phones for kids that only call one number? Seems like I have seen those advertised. While it might irk you, if your son had a phone like this, their would be no reason that you could not talk to your son or even more importantly that any time your son wanted to talk to you, he would have the access available without having to ask dad if he could call. Might think about it as a possibility.

    Kind thoughts your way
  6. Pandora

    Pandora Member

    Yes, courts can order and enforce phone visitation. I wouldn't give in to the cell phone "suggestion", as my guess would be your ex would somehow find a way to sabatoge this as well.

    While a phone visitation schedule can be court-ordered, I'd say if your ex really wants to take a matter this trivial to court he is behaving like a total jackazz, and I so hope he is ordered to pay court costs for any and all legal bills stemming from this action.
  7. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    I am so sorry you went through that...:(

    I think the worst thing about divorce is going from living with your child, being active in their day to day lives to suddenly having a complete stranger (a judge) telling you when you can and cannot see your child. :( The least your ex can do is let you talk to him on the phone. How petty of him to do this!

    I hope you get yourself a REALLY good lawyer cause I think you are going to need it...
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I'm not sure what other states have in place and I did not go thru a divorce in the state I currently live in, however, I do know that the state I'm in now 1) can order the two adults to set up an agreeable schedule for telephone calls, 2) offers mediation for two parents to reach agreements and write them up and they are connected to court authorities, and 3) this state has a law against "parental alienation". You might be able to find some info online to see if your state has policies like this- I would guess that most do.

    Keep documenting this stuff and maybe talk to an attny if you can afford one.
  9. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    How aggravating!! Sounds like a real piece of work!

    I actually get along (on the surface, as in we don't fight but under it all?? We don't really like each other) with my easy child's bio dad. He and his now wife are very involved with easy child. Although his court visitation says every second weekend, I have allowed without any problem, things to develop to pretty much 50/50. Living in the same town, school nights don't matter, he can drive her to school. I don't do it for him, or to feel good myself, I do it because my daughter deserves both of us. Period. She is benefitting.

    having said that, there are times that I call him if I am very ill etc to see if he can take her after school. He is good about it. I am suitably thankful. Honestly thankful, not fake thankful. However. easy child gets upset when I become ill and can't pick her up when she's expecting me. I have MS so she worries like a mother hen. She cries her little heart out when dad pops up when she's expecting me. I ALWAYS ask her father to explain whats going on with me on those occassions and ask her to please call me when she arrives at his house. He has NEVER, not one single time, done this. If I call to his house to speak to her, if they are home he always gets her and I can speak with her. However if I have to leave a message, she is NEVER told I've left a message and I never get a return phone call. So she often is bawling her poor head off at school and upset all evening, and all through school the next day until I pick her up from school, all because her father doesn't explain why I didn't pick her up and because he doesn't have her phone me.

    it is as if he resents that I exist. That she loves her mother, that she misses her mother, that I have a role to play in her life that can't be upsurped by anyone. Not him. Not his wife.

    This is so stupid though. I in no way begrudge his or his wifes relationship with our daughter. I am eternally grateful she has a male role model in her life who loves her. I am grateful he married a woman who loves my daughter. I am glad they model good parenting. however, because they don't speak badly of me to her or speak badly directly to me, they assume their feelings towards me don't affect our child. But crying for mom with no explanations, when they have the explanations, is just cruel. And not allowing telephone contact unless forced into it, when I've been a pretty good ex really (letting visits go to 50/50 etc) is also cruel. So I completely understand how this isn't right.

    If your ex doesn't get the head out of their butt, I say get whatever court order for telephone calls that you need. Its about your child, not your ex. If it takes a judge to make that happen for your child, well your ex chose that, not you. Hope things improve!
  10. ATaLOSS

    ATaLOSS Guest

    MattsMom- it is terrible, isn't it? You and I are in similar situations- the ex's wife treats our children well so we are grateful- cuz honestly, if they treated them terribly, there's not much we could do about it. This is the reality, and the alternative situation would be even more gut wrenching. If I thought for one minute my child was being treated badly by 'her' I'd be on their front door step and undoubtedly would come home with a hand full of brown hair (she's a brunette! lol!) However, it is almost an equal crime for them (ex's and 2nd choices) to deny these children their heros. Our children don't recognize it now, and there is a part of me that hopes mine never does- that would be a reality that would take away from his perception of part of his world. The other part of me knows, however, that our children will come into their own and will realize how unfair things were. So..... I document, if for no other reason, to reassure myself that I called- daily.- and in your case, that you cancelled for very real, legitimate, medical reasons. You are putting your daughter first- putting her in a place where she can be a child, rather than a caretaker. That is very selfless of you and I commend you. Make the best memories you can for you and your daughter while you are well - these will be her most vivid memories.
  11. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    I believe you are truly right, kids as they grow up see stuff. I do hope this doesn't bit my ex (or yours) in the butt by affecting their relationships with our kids as they grow older.
    But realistically, us taking the high road isn't doing anything but good for our kids. Biting a tongue for 18 years may be painful but I do believe is the right thing.
    I find that as our kids get older and can make more decisions outside of a court ordered shared parenting arrangement, things like this iron themselves out. can you really say no to teenager, you can't call mom/dad? uhh, you can TRY lol.
  12. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    A belated welcome to the board. Sorry you need the help but glad you found us. I tend to write really long replies so bear with me.

    I read a couple of your other posts and it sounds like you've gotten good advice from folks about seeking help through the school before he blows up there and things get really ugly in the one place that is neutral ground.

    I understand why you are very angry and hurt about not getting to speak with your son. It's more than aggravating to be denied that basic level of contact with a child of 7. And I'm totally with you on the cell phone thing.

    I guess I would only have one piece of advice for you - take it FWIW. That is to try to state things in your e-mails in a more neutral and clinical way if you can. It's like when you're dealing with the SD and there's extreme disagreement. It's almost like the bigger the disagreement the more polite and neutral the communication needs to be so that one side cannot accuse the other of exaggeration and/or make them look like they're out of line and "emotional".

    Perhaps you could send your EX an e-mail that lays out a proposed phone schedule that gives a range of time within which you will call daily (if you haven't done so already). Perhaps you will call between 7 and 8 pm Sunday through Thursday (school nights where one would normally be expecting a child his age to be getting ready for bed) and 8 to 9 on Friday and Saturday if they let him stay up later on those nights.

    No discussion about whether it's fair or unfair, whether you have the right to talk to your son. It's assumed that a mother who cares about her child will want and has the right to daily phone contact. Not up for discussion. Don't invite him to give you different times, etc. Lots of families live with huge upheavals in their schedules because of divorce. He should be grateful he has it so easy - phone calls, jeez.

    If he e-mails back that those times aren't convenient, you can adjust up or down half an hour such if you choose. If not then I would just e-mail back that you're not able to change the times and would he prefer to go back to court and ask the judge to set the times?

    Say it just that way - nothing about how it's unfair or he's keeping your son from you - just do you want to go to court over this?

    Your goal is to make you look like a rational adult and him like a mean-spirited jerk who is trying to keep you from exercising your right to contact with your child. Therefore you must refrain from using the kind of emotional language that a judge would expect from two people who have an acrimonious divorce. You want to take the high ground.

    Usually it's enough to just state plainly what's going on without any value judgement attached. Judges can read between the lines just fine.

    In this case you can say "As previously agreed, I called tonight to speak with difficult child at 7:30 pm. You told me my son was at home but was not available to speak with me. You stated that you would not allow my son to return my call this evening. You told me to call back tomorrow night to speak to difficult child."

    After 4 or 5 of these kinds of e-mails in a couple weeks you might add something like

    "This is the fifth time since XX/XX/XXXX that my son has not been available to speak with me as agreed. I assume that we need to contact a mediator or seek a court date to resolve this issue."

    As for the school issues, you might want to let him know you are watching what's up there if you haven't already. For example (if this is an accurate recap of your conversation with the teacher) you might e-mail him

    "I spoke with Ms. ABC, difficult child's 2nd grade teacher, this morning. Ms. ABC reported that difficult child is very impulsive during class and is bullying other children during recess.

    Ms. ABC specifically expressed concern about difficult child's conflict with a 7 yo student in another class. She reported that difficult child is bullying the other child and has threatened to kill the other child. She also reports that difficult child does not appear remorseful about this behavior nor does he appear to understand the seriousness of making such threats. In her professional judgment, Ms. ABC is concerned that difficult child may become violent at school.

    Given the seriousness of this situation and Ms. ABC's concerns about the potential for difficult child to become violent at school I have contacted Dr. so and so (pediatrician would be best to put in here) with this information. Since time is of the essence, I asked Dr. so and so to refer our son immediately for an appropriate evaluation."

    I wouldn't go into what's going to happen after you get a referral. And I would be prepared to negotiate with EX about what doctor does the evaluation. you might want to have someone to offer first who would be OK but not your real first choice. Then you can appear to give in when EX objects to that one and offer the other. If he objects again then HE is the one who looks unreasonable not you.
  13. ATaLOSS

    ATaLOSS Guest

    Thank you rlsnights~ your advice is priceless and put so eloquantly. You could not be more right! It is SO hard to not be so emotionally charged but it's going to clip my wings and thus my difficult child's if I can't keep my emotion of of my written words! I cannot thank you enough, and I hope you don't mind if I use your examples as a template for my emails in the future. Please keep your advice coming and don't ever hesitate to steer me back to the best path I can take for my difficult child!