So, Do I Go Against Everything I Believe....

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Hound dog, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    .....and help Nichole out of a tight jam? Or do I wait and see?

    Poor Nichole has NOT had the best week. And I truely feel for her.

    She's put in applications all over town and hasn't had one call back.

    Yesterday she was all excited about taking her driving test. (she's been practicing for a couple of months) Only to find out after sister in law drove her two hours away, and she missed a class, that the idiot who filled out her paperwork for the permit forgot to write down that she'd taken and passed the written exam. So they wouldn't let her take the test, nor give her the written exam since they would be closing shortly. Ugh

    Today, Nichole checks on her school loans for the spring quarter. She was told it appears she only has 600 dollars left that is available to her. Nowhere near enough to cover the cost of her classes and her books. (this is because she took classes last summer)

    Surprisingly, she's taking it all fairly well. She's worrying, but not moody. Which is saying alot because under the same circumstances, I know I'd be in a most foul mood. lol

    Now this girl is sitting here with a car with no title in her name, no insurance, no license, no job to pay for it, and no money to go to school next quarter.

    Because of the job situation, I've been letting Nichole do extra work around here to earn money for the title and maybe a couple of months insurance til she can get hired somewhere.

    That's once I'm going against my own rules and beliefs. But she's been trying so hard that I didn't want to see her schooling messed up just because no one is calling her for an interview.

    The Financial Aide person at the college told Nichole not to panic til all the paperwork arrived. She just might qualify for something that's just enough to help cover the cost. (but neither of us are betting on it)

    She didn't ask me for money for school. The thought hasn't occured to her.

    Now, here's the lowdown. Nichole knew that because she had classes in the summer she'd come up short this spring in financial aid. She was supposed to save her loan refunds to cover that cost. boyfriend was holding the money in his bank account for her.

    The money has been spent. And while it was being spent, mostly by boyfriend, Nichole was assuring me that he was going to cover her spring quarter.

    So, naturally I asked Nichole if boyfriend was going to pay for it. She said no. He doesn't have the money. Pardon me while I barf. If Tightwad doesn't have the money, I'm a glamour model in disguise!

    Then she tells me that he didn't spend the money, she just said he did.

    And she covers for him all of the time like this. So then, of course, I don't know which version to believe.

    So, do I let Miss Gullable learn a valuable, but painful lesson about Mr. Tightwad? Or do I go against everything I believe and try to scrounge up enough money to cover her cost next quarter? And no, I won't expect to be paid back because this is Nichole we're talking about. (so it would be a gift)

    Meanwhile, I haven't mentioned this at all to her as the whole thing may be moot. I have my loan refund, which was quite a bit. BUT it is for doctor visits for me that I'm not giving up. I was thinking maybe with the tax return.

    But then husband feeds me some bull story about how MO is taking our taxes again for back "support". (not support, but to pay off ex's welfare dept. Support has been paid in full) Since I'm not my daughter, and all of this has put ME in a foul mood, I blow up at husband. Primarily because we always get an official letter before something like this, and we've seen nothing from MO in years.

    husband suddenly back peddles and says Well, maybe not all of the return. Well, now I'm pretty darn sure I just caught him in a bold faced lie. (this is what he does when he lies) And I reminded him that 1 we haven't received notice, and 2 they never just take "some" it's all or nothing. And then he back peddles again and says he's not sure they're gonna take it. Good Lord, I swear, he thinks I have the brain of a pea, and that I haven't delt with this **** for the past 25 yrs!!

    So, now I don't know what's up with the tax return. Which means til I do, I couldn't make an offer if I wanted to. (this lil mess will be cleared up tomorrow, or else!)

    Odds are, I'll wind up letting the chips fall. But some input would be nice. And also, while I'm at it, I don't know whether to continue to let her earn money for the insurance when she might not be going to school afterall. (which was the whole point of it)

    UGH. It has NOT been a good week around here.
  2. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Daisy, Daisy, Daisy,,,

    Hands cup of coffee with no fat creamer, Splenda and a wedge of fruit -

    You know - I am finding it incredibly hard to NOT help difficult child and the kicker here is - he IS trying. Honestly this last little stay has been the nicest he's ever been despite some blow ups about things in a month I think there's been 3 which is down from 3 a day - so I see that as progress. (twisted logic maybe) but....I don't know if I would be the best to advise you about Nicole because when Dude was looking at staying in jail until his court date - we bailed him out, when he was looking at VOP - WE paid his fines. And even though he was a jerk the day after his fines were paid - we are seeing a side of Dude that is appreciative and empathetic. We were told he has little /no empathy.

    The reason we bailed him out is because of the lies the group home told us about their level of care. The reason we paid his fines is because he truly isn't able to comprehend what people said about how he has to pay. It was like - Gosh do we do this again - or do we let him take his lumps and end up paying MORE later - because we're all he has and our logic was - if we let him go to jail - he'll stay there until he's 23 and not be able to try and get a job, try to make is work, or get an education. He'd also in our opinion come out worse than when he went in....and what would he have to look forward to? Being a thug. So we bit the bullet once again and crossed our own line - helping Dude, but... we have seen signs of improvement and he did work his total kiester off around the yard like a dog.

    I wish I had an answer for you -like Well if you don't pay for it - Nicole will get angry enough with boyfriend to make HIM and HIS parents pay for it. That's kinda what went through my mind when I first thought of it. Because I think N and boyfriend both knew you would bail her out if the money was spent. If she was worried about how to pay for it - she should have handed it to you or gotten an account with-o boyfriend. I would wonder why she wants anything to do with a boy who spends HER college money and doesn't care to replace it when SHE is OBVIOUSLY trying to better herself. - That's not love - that is being used. (hand goes up like stop sign to Nicole because she can just talk to my hand - she IS being used) lover or not - he doesn't have HER best interest at heart. He's a selfish young man.

    And with husband - OHHhhhhhhhhhhhhh Well let me tell you about taking taxes from a state return. They CAN take a portion. BUT if you know the amount of the refund and both your social security numbers - you can call MO and find out when the refund is coming, if any or all of it (which they can take a portion if necessary) is going to be returned or not to you. I got a letter though. The state is taking like $38.00 for an old hospital bill?? WHAT? So....I get $38.00 less - I called the hospital and yes - they swear on a stack of pancakes they sent me a bill. (Whatever - I had medicaid for that time) so....pft. But if a state intends on taking ANY part of your refund they HAVE to send you a letter. So ask hubby to produce the letter or call the state of MO and ask them for a copy of the letter via email. But you can bet after what I went through in MY life with my x
    (took refunds for years and signed my name for the refund checks) and left ME with a $40,000.00 bill - I call the IRS and the state. TODAY. I've never heard of a state taking refund for medicaid.....odd. But checkable. And verifiable.

    I think maybe with Nicole - I'd let her sweat it out - but have the money put back and wait till the last moment - so that she really gets the notion that boyfriend better cough up some dough - QUICK - but let them both sweat a little. (or a lot depending on Nicole's mood) lol.

    Sorry I'm not much more help -
  3. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    My .02?
    Sit down and teach Nicole that one never trusts one's own money to anyone including a teen age boyfriend.
    Her school money goes in an account for school and nothing else. It is shameful that grants given to her for education should be spent on anything else including cars.
    I would not give her money for the car/driver's liscense or anything else. She can't afford a car and why would you throw away good money after bad.
    Help her learn to sit down and make a financial plan. If she didn't check what time the testing center closed or check to make sure she had what she needed, there is a good chance she isn't following through with what is needed to be independent. It's her responsibility to make sure she has things signed and documented.
    She must learn to not depend on boyfriend. It's unrealistic. He is a teen ager and most aren't ready to handle money wisely. Chances are slim he will be in the picture in another year or two. Hopefully he will but I wouldn't be optimistic that's for sure.
    Lord knows my difficult child is clueless but money earmarked for one thing is not allowed to be used for anything else. Including a difficult child driven emergency.

    So many difficult child's are not very good with money. I can't fix difficult child but I sure can't allow him to go on spending my money or govt money without consequences.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I agree that difficult child's aren't good with money. Nichole had my sympathy UNTIL I read that she gave her money to boyfriend and he spent it. Now I'm on the fence. I do help my kids when they are trying hard, not on drugs, etc. If they make silly choices that they've done before, I don't. It's really up to you. I probably wouldn't help this time because Nichole should never have given her money to boyfriend, and she knew that when she did it. But I'm not really sure what I'd do if this were me. Depends on how hard she's trying, if I'm sure she's not using drugs (including pot) and if she's treating us with the proper respect and following the rules...I like to let my kids know that it's a whole different ballgame when they're trying to do the right thing.
  5. janebrain

    janebrain New Member

    Oh, Daisy, I don't know what I would do either! It really annoys me that she gave the money to her boyfriend. That is what my difficult child 1 was doing--she was working while boyfriend sometimes would work (he didn't like the way society is set up so that people have to work fulltime) but she was letting him handle her money! Somehow he convinced her that she was no good at it--too hard for her. Well, he was spending all her money. She gave him a thousand dollars to go to Seattle ahead of her to get things "situated" and he somehow "lost" his clothing on the greyhound bus and had to buy new stuff and by the time she got there a week later he had spent all the money.

    I feel very torn--either way you are probably going to feel misgivings about your decision! I guess my head tells me you should not go against everything you believe and let her learn the very hard way but that is so very hard to do, especially when you feel she has had a rough week and she is trying on some level.

    Thinking of you,
  6. Coookie

    Coookie Active Member

    Well here is my .02, or what we did with our difficult child. :)

    When he came home in December he was told he would be looking for a job right away, or deciding to go to school. husband and I had already agreed that we would help him, for chores done, until he did one or the other and that is what we did. He kept filling out applications daily and was honestly trying to find a job... and then he did. :)

    He did some big chores, ones that husband and I just REALLY did not want to do... like cleaning the basement. BLECH and we paid him accordingly. He, of course, wanted payment before the job was done (in true difficult child style) but that didn't happen. :)

    I guess my advice would be this... If you are sure that she is honestly trying then help her... if you have any doubt then don't. :)

    Tough call, we are so thrilled with any sign of responsibility that we tend to reward to the extreme sometimes... at least we did... in the past... :)

  7. Star*

    Star* call 911


    I wholeheartedly believe the advice you've gotten here is great - my favorite response is the last line Cookie wrote - and it's so true. We ALL are so hopeful that difficult child's do SOMETHING ANYTHING right - that when they do - we tend to want to reward it - it's hard not to be a parent who would just look at them finally trying and then say - a simple uh huh instead of FANTASTIC - WOW - THANKS WOOO and then throw a party.

    Midwest Mom was thinking like me that Nicole had my sympathy until I read that she gave the money to her boyfriend - what was that for? Safe keeping gone bad?

    I still think - you should find out when the last very last day is you can help out and just stand your ground and tell boyfriend to find a way. Maybe he'll come through and you can save a few bucks. Hard to call.
  8. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Thanks ladies.

    I was thinking along the same lines.

    I'm so ticked at her for handing her money over to boyfriend it's not funny. (and have been since she did it) I did everything I could to get her to set up her own bank account. But he'd already convinced her.

    I knew the money wouldn't be there when she needed it. Fran, maybe I ought to put boyfriend's age in my sig. lol He's rapidly approaching the age of 22. Not a teen, just a good manipulator and Tightwad. Spending Nichole's money meant he didn't have to spend HIS money. And the boy makes Good money. Plus he has Nichole convinced he can't "afford" child support. (I'll stop here or it'll be another post lol)

    I can't, so far anyway, discuss boyfriend's using and manipulation as she's denying now that he had anything to do with the spending. God, I had it when she does this. Reminds me of myself at that age. I dunno if boyfriend has managed to convince her that the spending was somehow Her fault, (husband used to do this to me) or what is going on exactly. But until she admits he did it, I can't talk to her about it.

    BUT it seems easy child has taken the matter out of my hands.

    easy child told me this morning that she will cover the cost over the loan of Nichole's spring quarter. She's already told Nichole. As well, as I'm sure knowing easy child, an ear full of how she feels about boyfriend spending the money and leaving Nichole in a major lurch. easy child is so mad at Nichole's boyfriend she could spit fire.

    This surprised me. And yet it doesn't. If you know what I mean.

    easy child is as excited about all of the work Nichole has put into getting into the paramedic program as I am. She's just as proud over the "growing up" we've seen in the past several months. And she didn't want Nichole to lose the opportunity anymore than I did.

    But at least, knowing easy child, she'll wait til the last possible second to pay the school. And when she next sees the boyfriend, he'll be sure to get a piece of her mind. lol

    As for the car........

    Well, that's a Do To Get situation. If she does the rather disgusting chores I have mapped out for her......(you wouldn't believe how behind things get when you're in school fulltime) I have no problem paying the insurance and title. As long as she's Still trying hard to get a job. (and she has been)

    Too funny this morning. She tried to get me to give her the money she's earned so far.....about 60 bucks. I told her No. I'm holding it for the insurance. And if I gave it to her, she'd be tempted to spend it. She told me I was probably right and dropped it.

    Then we got into a discussion about babysitting for Aubrey. Currently she goes to daycare 5 hrs a day, 5 days a week, considered fulltime. boyfriend pays half, the state pays the other half. If Nichole works she'll need a sitter during working hours too. So she asked if I'd do it. I told her only if it was AFTER Aubrey's bedtime as I have my own classes to worry about. boyfriend can cover the other times, or if he has classes, she can spend a longer day at day care. (price is the same)

    Nichole looked a bit hurt as she has everytime this subject has come up. She doesn't like the thought of Aubrey spending all day in daycare. But I also haven't volunteered to watch her as I did with Darrin. And I won't. With easy child and sister in law, sister in law always watched Darrin when he didn't have to work. Nichole's boyfriend doesn't want to do that. PLUS the boy doesn't want to pay child support. And stopped buying most of Aubrey's daily needs months and months ago. (Nichole has to throw a fit for pull ups and diaper wipes) So, in my mind, Mr. Tightwad can pay for daycare if he doesn't want to watch his child during his off hours. Nichole is hurt because I haven't gotten her to see that the situations are different. sister in law worked 2 fulltime jobs and still watched Darrin when he was off. Mr. Tightwad works partime, goes to school parttime, and whines if Nichole needs him to watch Aubrey for a couple of hours, plus whines about having to buy the child anything while not paying support for her.

    Nichole being hurt or not, I'm sticking to my guns on the whole sitting for Aubrey thing.

    As far as our taxes............Star, the reason it wouldn't be them taking a percentage is that husband's ex racked up quite a bill with MO walfare. Believe me, if they were taking our return for payment, it would be the whole thing. (except state, they can't touch that one) That we have to pay off his ex's welfare bill when she was the one who was too lazy to work is a topic that still can make me livid. *sigh* But husband can produce no paperwork, as there is no paperwork that has been sent to us. He was trying to convince me they told him this when he'd checked on the statis of the return. (yeah, right. I stopped being gullable about 13 yrs ago bud)

    So now husband is lying (poorly) all over the place trying to cover his fanny. Truely, it would be comical if it didn't involve me. Obviously he had other plans for that whopping return. I've yet to get out of him as to "what" those plans were, be it some huge bill he hasn't been paying, or something else.

    But now I suddenly realize why I can't stand Nichole's boyfriend. He is so very like my husband it is unsettling. And Nichole's actions concerning him, with the manipulation and such, are so identical to the way I used to be with her Dad, it makes me sick. (and I pray she snaps out of it alot faster than I did)

    But the tax return thing just succeeded in reminding me why I'm going to school. Soon as I've graduated, husband is outta here. I figure he owes me my schooling after putting up with him for the past 25 yrs.
  9. scent of cedar

    scent of cedar New Member


    I think you are doing the right thing ~with Nicole, and with husband, too.

    That doesn't make it any easier to live through, though.

  10. Star*

    Star* call 911


    Does your post mean when you graduate YOU are leaving husband or does it mean when you graduate husband is leaving because he thinks you'll be able to get a job that quick and support yourself?

    Sorry for the hurt -either way tis crummy. But to not have to live with the stress of a man who constantly lies - WELL WORTH IT.

  11. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    It means that husband will be out on his arse. This is MY house, paid for by being run over by a truck. (okay 2/3 of it pd that way) Be darned if I'll be handing it over to husband without a fght and a half. And he knows me on stuff like that, and it scares him. So I won't have trouble.

    Don't get me wrong. I don't hate the man. Not that he hasn't given me good reasons to over that quarter of a century. husband is who he is. And if I hadn't been so blinded by love I'd have spotted it fairly quickly. He wouldn't be a bad friend. He is just lousy at being a husband, and actually not much better in the Dad dept.

    The only way I know how to put it is..... The universe is all about Him. Period.

    Odd thing is, I'm not even sad about it. It's a shame, as it could've been so different if he weren't so self absorbed. But that's his loss.

    It just ticks me off when he looks me in the eye and lies to me when he knows darn well that I read him like an open book. You'd think he'd have brains enough to stop already. sheesh

  12. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    I think you have taken a very wonderful stand on the babysitting for Darrin and Aubrey. It sounds like easy child and sister in law are doing their best to be good parents, and you are giving them a hand up. Key word is THEM. With Nichole, you would just be making it easy for boyfriend to bow out and use you as an excuse. You are insisting that they do what is appropriate - Nichole to fight for her child, and to do what needs to be done if she won't. Seems like the best parenting to me - each child gets what is needed/warranted with NO hangups about bean-counting. You know - You watched Darrin for 10 hours, you owe Aubrey 10 hours.

    I must say I really admire this. It is HARD to do. I think even harder with grandkids, but each is an individual.

    Hey, maybe we need IPPs or IGPs! Individual Parenting Plans or Individual Grandparenting Plans! It seems to be the best way to provide what each child needs to grow and learn.

    My mom went to grad school when I was in late elem school and jr high. It was tough, but she and my dad fought out who did what. You remind me of her. (I mean this in a wonderful way!) It is HARD to start over after the kids are grown.

    I have wondered about you and your husband. I can see why you want to wait until the schooling is done - and I agree with that being a very reasonable thing. It is really HARD to live with an Aspie (that is the AS in your sig, isn't it?) My own dad is an Aspie. He isn't as self-absorbed mostly. But he does totally NOT get that we are not always interested in what he is thinking about (When was the last time the temperature in lower Slobovnia was crucial as you prepped for, well, anything???)

    I hope that you get through school well, that your husband finally "gets it" that you read him like a book, and that you get an awesome career that pays well AND makes you feel good about life!


  13. Star*

    Star* call 911


    Here are my small thoughts - I have big ones but that involves...well nevermind.

    I would on the sly check with a divorce attorney - you can get a consult for free and you can go to several over the course of time. Why not go to one now and ASK what if.....What if since you are married or even living together in OH he CAN put a claim to 1/2 the house and force you to buy him out. ??
    What IF you have a bank account (joint)? Can you start moving funds over to another account NOW?

    I think if this is a planned thing - it could be good for you and the kids - if he is as you say (and I believe you) he will find the means to fight you tooth and nail and be vindictive - if you start planning now - you can literally wait till the day you want to toss him out on his kiester and be the smarter party - and you will KNOW exactly what he Can entitle himself to instead of tossing him out and starting there.

    You are a very smart lady - check into it.

  14. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Will do dear. I'm the Queen of Cover Your Own Arse. lol :redface:


    Yes, husband is aspie. And OMG yes he's hard to live with. lol Even without the "other" stuff. I'd figured it out long before the diagnosis was given. And the sad part is that honestly, I don't ask for much, most especially since the diagnosis. Go to work (don't get fired), pay the bills, and don't lie to me. Heck, I'd even take over the bills again if he'd stop taking money out of our account without telling me and making checks bounce.

    But he won't/can't whatever.
  15. scent of cedar

    scent of cedar New Member

    Oh, just checking in to see how you are.

    You sound stronger.

    You know what they say. We can recreate our lives, if that is our intent.

    Look back, and see how far you have come, already.

    I'm sorry this all has to be so hard.

    More hugs, Lisa.