So, do you think they lied?

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by DazedandConfused, Aug 22, 2008.

  1. DazedandConfused

    DazedandConfused Active Member

    China, that is. About the age of some of their female gymnasts? He in particular.

    I've been watching gymnastics since 1968 when the Olympics were in Mexico City. It's subjective sport, this is true. I don't necessarily agree with the age 16 rule, but it's rule. Nastia Luikin did not compete in Athens because she was 14 and she was the number one gymnast in the world at the time.

    The IOC? They need to grow a spine, in my opinion.

    Some claim sour grapes. Maybe. For me, it's about government sanctioned cheating. Regimes like China need to understand there will be serious consequences if they are caught doing this.

    I think about if it were my sister that trained, and sacrificed, for years to be denied a metal because another country cheated. How would I feel about it? Pretty angry, I surmise.
  2. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I understand that IOC are investigating this. Too many people have asked questions so answers will have to be sought officially. The process will also have to be as transparent as possible.

    I think that expectations of what hosting the Olympics would do for them are going to be greater than the reality. When other countries have profited in so many ways in past Olympics, sometimes it seems simplistic to say, "let's host Olympics, it will boost tourism for us, boost our economy and give us a better profile on the world stage."

    But more is involved than just providing a venue and services. When the eyes of the world are on you, you not only have to look good you have to BE good. All the promises that have been made - they now have to be fulfilled. And you can't just SAY, "I have kept my promises," you have to be seen to do this.

    Failure to do this - there go the expected benefits.

    I feel these Olympics have been wonderful in terms of good sportsmanship between competitors from many countries. Even the media, or at least the Aussie media (I can't speak for media from countries I haven't seen) have been loud in their praise for outstanding athletes no matter where they are from. Not a mean remark to be heard anywhere.

    But that is the other countries. The other competitors. People in general.

    When it comes to governments who need to control information and opinion in order to stay in power, sometimes they don't fully realise just how much their control can undo the good things that should be coming their way.

    If only the nervous government officials in China could have leaned back and relaxed a bit, not tried so hard at every level to extract every fragment of "perfection" from this wonderful opportunity - they could still have been as successful (or almost as successful) and avoided a lot of the criticism.

  3. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    The IOC ruled -- the Chinese gymnasts are all over 16. HA! Take a look at He. That's a baby. Of course, the IOC again accepted the Chinese documents. No real investigation. How perfectly nauseating.

    I do wonder when the IOC will get it. They make rules they don't enforce. They coddle the home country regardless of what is occurring. Personally, I think the Olympics changed from a thing of joy and beauty to a thing of greed the day the IOC allowed professionals to participate.

    China has turned Beijing into a remarkable city in 7 years. I have friends who have visited there on a few occasions. They showed pictures of it 20 years ago, 12 years ago. The change is truly amazing. The politics there are still oppressive, even more so than the USSR in its prime. In the Olympics itself, it has shown a willingness to cheat to get the medals. What a sad statement for all athletes.

    The news here has been wonderful, too. The newspapers have mentioned athletes not shown on TV who have gotten medals for the first time for their countries. The stories have been very heartwarming about these athletes and their frequently unknown sports.
  4. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    There was documentation from past sporting events that said the girls were born 1 year after the Chinese Passports and He's documentation from other sporting events said she was 13. Not to mention her school records which showe a birth certificate showing that she was 13. I believe 13.....there is no way on God's green earth that girl is older.
  5. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    SOMEONE lied. The question is who and when.

    I think the girls are underage.
  6. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Don't get me started again! The short and sweet is "yes". About that and a lot more.
  7. mrscatinthehat

    mrscatinthehat Seussical

    I am not sure that I have had a discussion about the Olympics around here that we haven't talked about the age of the gymnasts. I also have a problem with some sports giving two of the same medal for a sport but not in all sports. It wasn't just the American and Chinese Gymnast either. It happened between a Polish and French gymnast. I don't think it is right. If they earn the same scorn and both should get gold, then darn it both should get gold.

  8. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I was watching the gymnastics, and those girls were in no way 16. Then Hubby told me today that there was proof that several of them were only 13.

    I also thought that the gymnasts earning the same scores should have both gotten gold. Wasn't it just the womens' that had that really bizarre tiebreaking computer? I thought some other people did both get gold in another sport.
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Some of those little girls looked so small and young I swear they could have worn the toddler clothes I have here for Keyana! At least her bathing When they said they could walk UNDER the balance beam? Ok...come on now. How many normal 16 year olds can do that if they are of normal stature and havent had their growth stunted in some weird way? I mean we test the athletes for all these drugs that make them bigger, faster, stronger...but what about things to make them smaller?
  10. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Yes, I absolutely think they lied about their ages. I realize that Chinese kids may be, on average, a little bit smaller than American kids, but no way are those girls 16 years old! I think they're going along with it just to keep from it turning in to an "incident".

    Did you see how they had a different little girl lip-syncing the singing in the opening ceremonies? They didn't think the child who did the singing was cute enough so they used her voice but put on a different little girl that they considered to be "cuter" and had her mouthing the words!
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2008
  11. DazedandConfused

    DazedandConfused Active Member


    That lip-synching thing had me boiling! Then, the chinese press "quotes" her saying she was "just proud to have her voice used". Riiiiight. :sick:

    I didn't have a problem with the new scoring system. Once I understood it, it made sense. And, I also don't have the problem with the tie breaker. There was a very similiar tie-breaking situation with Nancy Kerrigan and Oksana Bieul (sp?) back in 92' in figure skaking. Oksana got the gold because she scored 1/10th higher in the artistic portion of judging. Otherwise, they were tied. Of course, that scoring system has been tossed too.

    What I do have a problem with is:

    1. The judging. The Chinese not being properly deducted points when errors were made. However, it wasn't just the chinese that benefitted from that incompetence. Interestingly, the commentors explained that when a country has an competitor, no judge can be from that country. So, you have judges whose countries have never had a top gymnast. As a result, they don't have the depth of experience to judge these competitors. So, they screw up, a lot.

    2. People not getting (though, not here) that a 13, or 14 year old has a distinct advantage over an 18 year old due to flexibility and less history of injuries. As a gymnast grows taller, their center of gravity is higher. That makes those moves just that much harder.

    Isn't it interesting that these girls seemed to suddenly come out of nowhere right before the olympics. Had they been competing all along, fudging their ages would have been extremely difficult. They (chinese government) obviously planned this carefully. Generally, gymnasts come up through the ranks and are well known by the time they get to the senior level.

    I feel badly for the chinese gymnasts. They are pawns to project a particular image for the chinese government. Being removed from your home at the age of 3 or 4 and sent to live at a state run gymnastics facility must be really difficult. The hope of elevating their families living conditions must put a lot of pressure of them keep up this scheme. Shame on the adults.
  12. Stella Johnson

    Stella Johnson Active Member

    The Chinese government lied so they could win.