So, I Jinx Myself Alot....

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Janna, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. Janna

    Janna New Member

    Like, all the time.

    I came and said how well D was doing, didn't I? :faint:

    Well, he was. And then, a couple of weeks ago, something happened. I don't know what. He started talking - more - alot - like, from wake up til bedtime, it was one very, very long run on sentence that never ended. I dunno if it was mania - I dunno if he was having racing thoughts - because honestly, I have to tune him out. If I don't, my own anxiety gets so bad I can't swallow.

    The anxiety is back. Worrying about every one, every thing, every everything. How is he making it through the day?

    This week has been hard. B has been sent home, again, from his 4th Residential Treatment Facility (RTF). We didn't tell D - knowing the anxiety, so he didn't know when all this started. I'm sure B being home, now, adds, but whoa.

    Disrespectful. Loud. Soooooooo loud. So incredibly hyper.

    The Concerta - doing nothing. I tell psychiatrist this Friday (he started the Saturday before, has been on now 8 days) he's having problems, she says, let's add Ritalin at 4 LOL!!!!!! What the huh? :confused: Well, if he's super hyper ALL DAY, what is Ritalin gonna do at 4? I swear, I am so done with psychiatrists. Seriously. Every one I have ever dealt with has been an idiot. How do these people go to school for 8 YEARS? and PASS? LOLOL what?

    I emailed her and told her to keep her scripts (she MAILS them to me, hahaha, whatever). The Buspar - doing nothing. Seroquel - probably fizzled out, just like every other AP does. We just recently tried Tegretol - I swear, even though he's Autism, he's definately got SOMETHING going on mood wise. Why can nobody figure this out? Why? Anyway - we tried Tegretol, and D got dizzy, sick, felt horrible. Was the first drug he ever refused to take. I know my son. We d/c right away.

    I'm so tired. I think he's busting tail all day long to hold things together (he is still being compliant, and doing what he's told) and by, say, 3 or 4 PM, he just can't anymore. He's continuing to do what he's told, but whining, complaining, yelling, just so inflexible. Frustrated and angry.

    I just want to cry. I needed to vent.

    I have this support page for moms with BiPolar (BP) kids, too. I don't even want to sign in. How the heck can I possibly give advice to anyone when I can't even get my own kid straight LOL!? I feel like a loser :sad-very:
  2. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Janna, you're not a loser. You have a kid who is very, very difficult to medicate and very, very difficult to figure out (do you think I got enough very's in?).

    A few thoughts:

    Concerta, like any stimulant, can exacerbate pre-exisiting anxiety. Could be why you're seeing more anxiety.

    Concerta can also rev some kids up instead of calming them down. Again, what you could be seeing.

    D's Seroquel dose is still on the low end and could be increased. Sx can get ahead of Seroquel if it's not at a high enough dose (we've seen this with my son, who now takes 600 mg Seroquel).

    Hang in there.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  3. Janna

    Janna New Member

    Thanks, SW,

    I mentioned the increase of Seroquel to psychiatrist. She was hoping to load him up on stims to wean him off the AP. For some reason, everyone around us all of a sudden is disliking AP's, and even our Mobile Therapist commented on how "high" a dose D is on. When I confronted him with the "mood stabilizing properties" and the fact that, in higher doses, it can alleviate anxiety, for example, he just said "yeah...well, it's hard on the heart". OK, right now, my son doesn't have heart problems.

    I don't know what this current psychiatrist is doing. She's with the partial. I see her every marking period LOL! Every other time it's calling the partial if I have an issue. There are *alot* of times I call and she doesn't even return calls.

    And, if I remove him from her care, there are no psychiatrists in my entire county LOL! Can you believe that? Not a one that takes our insurance. Not one.

    I just need a day or two or 12 to reflect. I'll come up with something.

    Either that or I'll just rip him off everything and that'll be the end of that problem :(
  4. Jena

    Jena New Member

    I second that, you are NOT a loser!! :)

    I think that everyday at work, here I am helping others handle their difficult child's yet my own isn't where she should be yet? Truth of the matter is who better to help than one with whom lives it, breaths it and eats it everday. Also it's often so much easier to help others and see things objectively without the huge emotional attachment.

    I agree with smallworld on the medication thing. I have gone thru so many medications with my own difficult child that have sent her anxiety ridden to hyper hypo manic just complete insanity behaviors worse than where we started.

    Vent away, I do it often sometimes its all you can do to empty your cup

  5. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    There's a reason everyone suddenly dislikes APs.

    Our psychiatrists were against APs when we started our journey with J more than 4 years ago. But with all the medication trials we've been through, Seroquel is the first medication to target his anxiety and depression without flipping him into mania. It has made a tremendous difference in his quality of life.

    By the same token, M suffered from a life-threatening eating disorder 2.5 years ago. There is no doubt in my mind that Zyprexa literally saved her life (Zyprexa has been proven effective in treating anorexia in a few small clinical studies). Obviously, I'd rather she not take a medication with a potentially harmful side effect profile. But when faced with a life-threatening situation, we had very little choice.

    We did baseline bloodwork and EKGs on both kids before they started APs. We have followed up with periodic testing as well.
  6. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    I know with my difficult child that he cannot tolerate stims without a ms on board. He gets anxious, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), and extreme emotional lability. However, my difficult child has never been on AP's. My only experience with those has been with husband and for him they are a double edged sword.

    Good luck. I wish I had more pertinent advice for you, but you have traveled such a long road that I feel silly trying to give you advice. I just want to offer support.
  7. jal

    jal Member


    You are not a loser. I know how hard it can be. My difficult child is Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-Aspergers (high functioning) also been diagnosis'd with-mood dis-not otherwise specified and combined ADHD. My son has been very hard to medicate also. He was orig diagnosis'd as bipolar/ADHD and we trailed medications upon medications. Stims set him off (we've gone through 15 of them). difficult child currently is on Seroquel 200mg spread throughout the day. When psychiatrist tried to increase to 300mg difficult child became nasty and disrespectful. I weaned him back down to 200mg and he is so much better. We started 10mg of Prozac a few weeks ago and within one week or so we had a different kid.

    I don't really have the answer since I am not a dr, but maybe the Concerta is wearing off around 3 or 4 as you mentioned and the dr was trying for a short acting stimulant to get difficult child through the rest of the day? Also, I do not know how much Seroquel your child is on, just my experience going to a higher dose caused problems. Good luck to you.
  8. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    Add my vote to the "not a loser" pile!

    Kids who are on the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) spectrum AND the mood disorder spectrum are incredibly difficult to figure out, symptom-wise and medication wise.

    Mania looks like ADHD, some Aspie traits look like ADHD, there are cases where Aspergers and ADHD are co-morbid...blah, blah, blah. Teasing apart the different strands can be so very very hard.

    With my difficult child, who is Aspie and bipolar, stims sent him right through the roof like a bottle rocket. His current dose of Seroquel is 1000 mg per day of the extended release, plus about 100 mg or thereabouts PRN to smooth out some of the rough patches. In addition to that, he's on Lamictal AND Strattera.

    And we did the diagnostic and medications merry-go-round for about 15 years before they figure out that combination.

    I'm sorry that he's spinning out of control, but I agree with Smallworld and some of the others that perhaps Seroquel dosage was not high enough.

    Yes, AP's can cause heart troubles. But if your difficult child doesn't have heart troubles, but he does have mood troubles, then which is more important to focus on. You can monitor the heart, and make changes if necessary over time.

    Sending many hugs your way! Hope you find answers.
  9. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    So, let's see...if you're a loser cause you can't straighten out your kid, and that means you shouldn't give advice to leaves about...oh, say...what, 12 people left qualified to be on this board?

    Phineas and Ferb on Disney Channel had the answer the other day...Dr Doofenschmirtz created a Slow-Motion-ator; anyone he shot with it moved in incredibly slow slow-motion. I thought to myself as I watched this little cartoon "I WANT THAT!!!!"

    Til I find Wile E.'s Acme catalog...sending calming hugs from one "loser" to another. :)
  10. ML

    ML Guest


    You are an awesome warrior mom! This is very hard stuff. I can so relate to your post. Hugs xoxo ML
  11. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Oh Janna..........

    I can just completely relate to your frustration. I do not know how many medications my difficult child has trialed, but I am gonna have to say close to 100% of them out there.

    One thing about APs, they may fizzle, but you can always start another one. I am with smallworld about Seroquel. For awhile, it completely quelled the mania. It lasted for 2 years and then my difficult child had some side effects that caused us to have to D/C it.

    Your difficult child and mine are alike in the mild Aspie/NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) characteristic, yet with a mood lable issue. This is inordinately hard to treat - especially because of their intense anxiety and rigid thinking, combined with rollercoaster moods. It takes time - however - you will find the right medication combo. Just continue forward with hope.

    For us it took 2 mood stabs, and then an AD, before difficult child found any relief. But the correct combo of mood stab and AD has taken years. I just posted a similiar reply to klmno's recent post that you might find helpful.

  12. Janna

    Janna New Member

    Thanks, you losers :) LMAO!

    Ugh, it's just been a cruddy week. I mean - really, what the heck????????????

    I got the scripts from psychiatrist today. It's so depressing, I open it and there's like, TONS of scripts there. We need one for Buspar, one for the Concerta (we're done as of today, screw that), one for the Ritalin (ditto - not even going there), and then THREE, of course, for Seroquel (a 25 mg, 50 mg, 100 mg) - SIX! I'm like - wow....six scripts. One kid.

    Therapist at partial and myself (without psychiatrist's advisement, because she cant return a call or email - and I am SO SICK of calling this woman with no return call) decided today to d/c Concerta. It's definately making the anxiety worse. So, that means I can burn that Ritalin script, too.

    I'm going to mention increasing the Seroquel - does anyone have advice as far as how fast to go up how often? I don't want to comatose him - and there are times when he is very glassy eyed and almost "out of it" - mostly evenings if he takes medications too early (he takes 175 mg Seroquel PM and 20 mg Buspar). Mornings seem OK, once it's in him (50 mg). I looked in their prescribing information, of course, I can't find what I really need. I guess every kid is different.

    I'm really thinking about d/c Buspar and heading toward Klonopin. I don't think the Buspar is touching the anxiety.

    I appreciate the kind words. I had a talk with D on the way home today. It's funny, kinda - we were talking and he was saying how everyone is so grouchy toward him all the time (he was having issues with a teacher today - guess she got a little annoyed). I said, gently, "D, you know you're not the easiest child ever, don't you". Now, this may be nasty, to some - but - I just wanted to see if it would make him think. "I know, mom, I'm different, and I know it's hard - but if u can put up with me, someone else should be able to too".

    *sigh* - dunno about that kiddo LOL!
  13. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    You are so not a loser! Sorry that D is struggling right now. Cute response about you putting up with him! My difficult child has been on the same AP for three years now, the dosage does change though from time to time. I hope this week is better! Hugs.
  14. jal

    jal Member


    With our difficult child we were advised to up Seroquel in 25mg over a 4 day period. He was taking it 3x's a day (am, afternoon and pm) so we would do an extra 25mg in the am for 4 days, then increase the pm doseage by 25mg for 4 days and then the afternoon one for 4 days until he was up to the mg rx'd. Definately check with your own psychiatrist as they may want you to do something different then what I was instructed to do.
  15. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    If you look at the prescribing information, Seroquel can be increased 100 mg per day for acute mania. That's how it was dosed for my son a year ago when he was manic and admitted to a day treatment program (he went to 800 mg then, we have since lowered him to 600 mg). But since you're really not looking at that type of situation, I'm not sure you need to go up that high that fast. A psychiatrist should be able to advise you on your son's specific situation.
  16. Janna

    Janna New Member

    SW - there is no doubt in my mind that at this moment he is manic. There is no ADHD about what is going on with him. I'm about to pull my hair out. I've sent three emails to psychiatrist since Sat, called her office twice and have heard nothing. I d/c the Concerta on my own free will - burned the Ritalin script, and am done with the stims. The Buspar isn't working, he is wound tighter than a rope - loud, non stop talking, impulsive, hyperactive, unable to stop. He was up until almost midnight last night, totally not like him - and the Melatonin (5 MG!) didn't work.


    SUPPOSEDLY the therapist at partial today told him she'd Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) him and I'd agree to it. SUPPOSEDLY. If I find out she said that to him...her world is over.

    Thanks again :)