So.....out of nowhere

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by timer lady, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    I rec'd a call from mental health CM yesterday. The discussion was all over the place however the final subject was TPR of the twins.

    TPR for good cause with no legal action toward me but TPR none the less. There's a much higher chance of getting a guardian ad litem for, especially wm, if I were to do this before the age of 18.

    CM reassured me that in no way does this mean I will not be the tweedles parent nor will I be denied contact to wm. kt would remain here with me. CM also said the county, the entire team that has been working with my little family is proud of the work & commitment husband & I put into kt & wm. They are simply looking out for my health at this time & for the tweedles ongoing treatment in adulthood.

    What do you think? Should I be incensed or relieved? I'm confused over this.
  2. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    Couldn't they do a gaurdianship without TPR? That seems a little harsh to me.

    I'd want a heck of a lot in writing before I'd do that...but maybe they are on the up and up. I just don't know.
  3. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Linda - is something missing here? How does kt stay with you after TPR? Do you become a foster parent? How do you continue to be their parent after TPR? And TPR for cause???? On who's say so? Does he want you to file for TPR, or is he/the state filing?

    Both of the kids (in my humble opinion) are going to need guardians as adults. At the same time... well, you know the desert thank you is living in as far as supports and services down here. I'm a pessimist by nature (news to you, I'm sure) but I don't see how TPR prior to 18 is going to ensure GALs for either kiddo post 18. Who on earth is going to advocate for a GAL?

    I'm not sure I'd be incensed or relieved - more concerned about the potential for your kids falling through the cracks as they veer into adulthood.
  4. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    Yeah...Sue's questions...if I did a TPR, I'd dang sure want all that in black and white and binding....and I'm not sure how you'd ever do that.
  5. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Is TPR an acronym for termination of parental rights?
  6. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    This seems very odd to me. Have you discussed the results of your neuropsychologist testing with them or something? I would think HIPPAA would prevent them from getting this info with-o your express written permission or a court order - and I am SURE that you would have to know about the court proceedings. Other than knowing about this, and thinking that the "dementia" would have you doing dangerous things with/for the tweedles, I cannot fathom why they thing that this is a "good" idea.

    I am assuming that TPR means terminating your parental rights. If it is something else, please let me know.

    Exactly WHAT message are the Tweedles to get from this legal action?? They had abusive birth parents who damaged them horribly and then they were taken away and I assume in foster care for a while. Then they were adopted and the work began to help them heal. You developed severe health issues that were/are very scary for them - at times they were unsure if you would live or die and they still have to handle your continuing handicaps and health issues. Your husband went off the rails and then died. This left them feeling even more abandoned and scared.

    NOW they are supposed to have no or little lasting damage done by having their legal connection with you terminated??? Simply because you have ongoing health problems??? WTF are these people smoking??? Can they pass the crack pipe so this makes sense to the rest of us??

    Regardless of whether or not you want to or are able to be their guardian after they are 18, terminating your parental rights will damage these children unspeakably. How are they to NOT feel abandoned by this?? How is this to NOT send them both into major problems??

    in my opinion this is a time when you need to get your advocates involved, as well as your attorney. This is being done because you have ongoing health problems and handicaps that impair your ability to function. They need to provide supports for you to continue to parent the Tweedles, NOT a time when they need to abuse you and the kids by severing your legal connection. If you had been born with these issues they would have had to provide supports and accomodations for your children, and possibly GAL's, but severing your rights would NOT be considered because your parental rights are usually paramount in legal matters.

    in my opinion this is a way they are attempting to take advantage of you and your current health issues. I do NOT think it is a good idea, nor would I trust ANY guarantees they make about kt staying with you or you being allowed contact with either one of the Tweedles. They surely would stop providing supports in your home - and most likely would move kt somewhere with more kids who receive services so it would be 'cost effective'.

    This raises SO MANY red flags in my mind. How would you advocate for the kids after your rights are terminated, should they need your help? You would have no legal rights, and they could not give you permission to see records via HIPPAA or anything else because they would not have the right to do so as someone else would be their legal guardians.

    PLEASE contact your advocate(s) and your lawyer ASAP regarding this. in my opinion this needs to be quashed ASAP before the kids hear about it because it will do HUGE damage to them. Heck, it would harm ANY child to have their parents legally taken away out of the clear blue sky.

    I am so sorry they are trying to do this to you.
  7. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    I'd be very suspicious of their motivation. Is there any chance that they may have gotten wind of your recent neuropsychologist results?
  8. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    It just doesn't sound right to me, Linda. I have the same questions the others do. What guarantees can they give that this will truly be beneficial to the Tweedles once they turn 18?
  9. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    This doesn't pass the smell test for me, either. They can say all they want about how it won't change anything, but if it doesn't change anything why do it?
  10. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Does this mean they should terminate my parental rights because I am disabled? Should we terminate the parental rights of all parents who are disabled? Where is the ACLU? Personally I would sign right up to terminate mine if it would mean I could get a few out of my house about now!
  11. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Linda, you have to do what is right for you and the Tweedles. Whatever that may be, there is no judgement here.

    However, I am concerned with the motivation as well. Can't they just appoint someone to you that is responsible for helping you make decisions that need to be made? Explain things to you when something new comes up? If it is a matter of your illness making you not capable of making the decisions, it seems like there are multiple options, not just TPR.

    I think you need an advocate.

    Frankly, I completely understand your relief. The last few years have been so horrendous for you all. I can see the TPR being tempting. What a burden lifted off your shoulders. Maybe that would be of benefit to your health. Is that what they think?

    The decision is just too big to make on your own right now. Get some advocates in place.

  12. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    I too am a bit worried of their motivation. So if you did agree........I'd have a lawyer sitting with you to help you sort out and make the decision. Because you simply cannot terminate parental rights and still have say so in parenting the child. Otherwise, what would the point be to it? That is what you need to find out.

    On the other hand......... sister in law's mother was a foster parent for a time for hard to place kids (difficult children). She cared for a 16 yr old with a 9 month old infant. What they neglected to tell her at 1st was that the girl was diagnosed schizophrenic, and it's pretty severe. She of course had to find it out the hard way. She stuck out fostering her for 2 yrs when it became obvious she was both a danger to the entire family and to her own daughter. State removed her from the home. sister in law's mother petitioned to adopted the girl's then 2 yr old daughter whom she was still fostering.

    Well when this difficult child foster child was approaching 18 the state (who had been trying to convince sister in law's Mom there was really nothing seriously wrong with her) suddenly decided that she was a danger to both herself and society. Because she was already a ward of the state the process was much simpler to make her a permanent ward of the state as an adult. Which is what they did.

    So maybe that is what they're thinking concerning wm and kt.

    I don't know how wm has been fairing in his placement. But while kt has had setbacks she's also made probably much much more progress than anyone every realistically expected.

    I'm sure you're health is playing a factor here. But it may not truly in this situation be due to their thinking you're unable to parent the kids........but maybe be more along the lines of........if your health were to take another turn for the worst later down the road and neither wm or kt had made any real progress they could be beyond the age where it would be uncomplicated for the state to take over permanent guardianship of them. Say you're doing good coping with your disabilities and suddenly take a turn for the worst when the kids are like 17 and approaching their 18th birthdays......or even after the is very difficult for the state to take over guardianship of an adult versus a child that has already been in their care. There is a risk that the state won't gain custody of them and then the kids would be left to fend for themselves. And we already know that that can be a disaster. If the kids were easy child's the state wouldn't even consider stepping into the situation. But kt and wm are, even with the progress they've made, at high risk for never recovering from the severe abuse of their background enough to function in society without risk to themselves or others.

    (I am not saying this, I'm saying I've a pretty darn good idea this is what is running through their minds)

    Still the twins are what 14 or so? A bit soon to take this step in my opinion, especially since your health is not deteriorating. I'm also wondering if a little birdie told them about the neuropsychologist evaluation and they're overreacting to it.

    I'm not sure if you should be majorly ticked or not. But I'd give the decision a lot of time with people to help your sort out all the legal mumbo jumbo and make darn sure you understand every single bit of what they propose before you consider signing your name on the dotted line.

  13. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I agree with the others, something doesn't feel right. I do agree an advocate is a good idea right now. Hugs.
  14. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    The twins are 16, so it is conceivable tat the authorities are planning for when they're 18. But that would show more foresight than I think is usual? I also am wondering if they've got wind of this latest diagnosis, Linda. In which case, it could be time to get an attorney to sort this out for you. Either your confidentiality has been breached, or someone is trying to cut you out now for fear of what dementia means (a panicked, ignorant reaction) or in some other way, they're trying to remove you from the picture now. It all sets some nasty precedents on so many levels... the possible breach of confidentiality; the implication that people with disabilities are unfit to parent (and where does that leave people like me, or Janet or Witz?); the action on gut fear without thinking it through in the interests of the children.

    All not good.

    Linda, get legal advice and do not sign anything or agree to anything until you get it checked out.

  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Even with this new diagnosis you are still more savvy than many parents I know. Heck, you problem have more on the ball than a lot of the other parents I have met up at school! I am very sure you will talk to your own attorney and advocate about this, which is what you need to do. I am just very suspicious about this because my own interaction with CPS has been less than trustworthy.

    Regardless of the reasoning, I think even the idea of this would hurt the kids a whole lot. You are their stability and safety, the one who will be there when the paid caregivers get new jobs or assignments or leave to have their own kids or whatever. While a TPR wouldn't mean you couldn't see them, it would legally sever your familial relationship.

    You need to think long and hard about whether this is good for you and for them in the long run. What damage will a TPR do to them, and what benefits would they get from it? Would they think they don't have you as their family anymore? How would you handle that, and how would they?

    in my opinion it is a very strange thing to have them bring up.
  16. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I was wondering what it meant too. The GAL part- well, I've had to deal with that but for different reasons.
  17. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    Linda, I would highly suggest you speak to a lawyer about this before proceeding any further. Do not sign anything.
  18. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    Ladies, you're all right about this situation. There has been a concern over my health issues with the treatment team. My inability to make decisions promptly, even avoiding decisions.

    As far as I know there has been no "leak of information" regarding my new diagnosis. Part of me wonders if this isn't the right idea so wm is guaranteed becoming wards of the state upon reaching the golden age of 18. kt has me scratching my head. Will she or won't she make it out in the big bad world with-o some type of guardianship.

    I've a call into my brother & will be calling a family law attorney. It's all so much information to take in & gets very confusing when people are talking to me. At the time it seems so logical.
  19. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Linda, is there someone you can talk to about the impact that this would have on the kids? One of my biggest concerns is that the kids will feel like you are saying you are not their mother and you don't want them. Maybe you could talk to one of their tdocs, or to a therapist that has worked with them in the past. I just cannot see any way that this will not send that message to them, esp to kt because she lives with you.

    I know it all seems to make sense when they talk to you about it. That is a facet of the handicap you are working with. There are a LOT of people who are able to suggest things and have them sound totally rational and like a great idea right then. This is why any big decision should NOT be made right when it is suggested.
  20. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    At 18, the state can file for guardianship of either or both of the tweedles due to their mental disabilities, I fail to see how TPR prior to 18 helps that AT ALL.