Son 32 Still lives with parents

[Andy4382]

Dear AndyThe answers are in you and the responsibility is yours, not his. He is an adult man who gets to decide about his own life, which he is doing. He is deciding to NOT work. He is deciding to steal from his parents. He is deciding to ignore the stay at home order. He is deciding what to buy at the store with your money. He is deciding to ingest pills. Right or wrong all of these decisions he is free to make, and he has done so.

Now, you have the right to make decisions too. Which you are doing.
You decided to give him your card, carte blanch to buy whatever he wants to, despite the fact he has stolen from you before, under the same circumstance. Even had he not specifically stolen in exactly the same way, you already know that he is not trustworthy. Nonetheless, you chose to give him the card.
You know he doesn't want to work. He has made this clear consistently. Instead, you continue to repeat this to him even though he ignores You:
He jeopardizes his own safety and yours because he chooses to. . That he does so with his own life is his business to do. But you have decided to jeopardize your own health, and your wife has decided to jeopardize her own health, by permitting him to enter and reenter your home at will.

Again, you've made the decision, here to trust him again with your debit card:You bear the responsibility here, not him. He has made the decision over and over again to transgress reasonable boundaries with money. Call it theft. Call it sharing. Call it borrowing. But he chooses to take what is yours without your consent. And you choose to overlook it by over and over again trusting him when he has decided over and over again to take from you.

His living with you if you look at it one way is one whole take what I can get to fuel my lifestyle. My lifestyle consists of laying around, drugging and doing whatever I damn well please, no matter who I hurt or even kill. Life has gotten that serious lately. I hope to G-d you decide to stop him.

Andy. All of us go through this. Until we decide to stop.

Copa, This is the reason I'm on this forum. I'm totally lost is this situation. I want to go one way then the next the other way. I want to make that big step and STOP everything that is going on. I just want to run away some times and leave this all behind. The decisions I want to make want be the ones the rest of this family wants. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. To stop him there will be no peace around here. There will be drama. There will be a lot of hurtful fellings, there will be fingers pointing at each other, your to blame. It will be the same ol same ol again again repeat repeat. When will this come to a head? I'm not selfish anymore. At one time I my have been just a little but I'm over it now. I'm ready for some self care like everyone here is talking about. For my wife also. She is the one that needs some to. He has drove her crazy. My wife and I was talking that he started doing drugs around 15-16 years old. We have come to realize that's about the mentality age he is living in. He takes no responsibility for any actions he has done to himself or anyone else. What is the definition of turning your back on some one? We talked to him last night about stealing the money. I found later he had took $220. Told us he had bills to pay to keep his car from being repossessed." Where are the receipts where you paid ? I was in a hurry and didn't get any?" So on the 21st of March he walked out of a very good rehab place that even housed, feed and worked with him on a daily bases. Thats also the day he went to jail. 5 days later the court system let him out over covid-19. so there it is back to the same old .

 

[Copabanana]

I just want to run away some times and leave this all behind.

Gosh. Do I understand this. I think all of us here do.

Dear Andy. Please understand. The voice of confidence I have gained is hard-earned. I have been here on this site for five years. I post most every day. For years I would post maybe 25 or more times a day. I was lost. I needed to save my son. I felt responsible to MAKE HIM LIVE A GOOD AND RESPONSIBLE life. I NEEDED to keep him alive. I was in agony. I was lost. Now I am not.

I write this because I want you to know that I'm not just spouting off to make you feel bad. Nor is there any judgment in anything I write.

I'm totally lost is this situation.

No you are not. I don't believe this one minute. Because I know that the solutions are in you. Already there. It's to pay attention to, and honor, what you already know and feel. What I hope is that what I write triggers in you a sense of recognition.

The decisions I want to make want be the ones the rest of this family wants.

Where do I start?

I have found that the only way I know, really, what I want and need is to pay attention to what I feel in my own body. Not my mind. My mind gets confused. It is filled with shoulds. And my mind flip flops back and forth. My mind is not trustworthy. But the mind that is in the body, by that I mean, my gut, my heart, my breath, my stomach, tells my truth. It's to pay attention. You know what I mean. I know you do.

We can't live for another person. Either to please another, or to protect another, at the cost of our own being. We can't. In my own experience, sooner or later it all blows up. If we stay centered in what we know to be real, our own experience, our own values, our own suffering or peace, we can do this. If we center ourselves based upon the reactions and judgments and opinion of others we spin like tops.

To stop him there will be no peace around here. There will be drama.

And what do you have now? Do you have tranquility or chaos?

To me, the only people that matter here are you and your wife. And if you have minor children at home, they matter most of all. But everybody else? In my mind they need to pay attention to themselves and mind their own business, not yours. In my mind either they will come around, or they won't. But that does not change the calculus. We do what is the right thing. And what is the right thing for us, for our health, is always the right thing to do.

If you begin posting here everyday you will begin to recognize your own voice. You will see it in your posts. That's why I post everyday. While it may or may not benefit others, it always benefits me.

Your son is an adult who is living badly. By vacillating in relation to our adult children we help them live badly not well. I was in your situation. I helped my son after he was kicked out of a sober living home, for not maintaining sobriety. From that followed years of chaos. And my son did not live well. He continued to impose upon us his bad acts and poor decisions. We were lost.

There will be a lot of hurtful fellings, there will be fingers pointing at each other, your to blame

Who cares? Right now, Andy, you are confused and suffering. I would bet too that nobody around you is happy. That even now with things spinning out of control, that nobody is content and that there is blaming to spare. Who cares?

Who can you please, really, if you don't meet your own needs? To meet your own basic needs, and those of your wife, is not to be selfish. It is to be responsible. Because if we don't start with ourselves we are lost.

I am a person of faith. I believe that my faith begins with a connection to G-d. And my connection to G-d is fundamental to everything else. Being attuned to my own needs, and being responsible to know them and to meet them is the very basis, the absolute necessity of faith, for me. Before I can be responsible to anybody else I connect to G-d. That comes first. That's how I know what I need. That centers me.

Told us he had bills to pay to keep his car from being repossessed." Where are the receipts where you paid ? I was in a hurry and didn't get any?"

Look. The very bottom line here is blah, blah, blah. Nothing that comes out of his mouth is based upon reality. He is an addict. His mouth and every other fiber of his being serves his drug. End of story.

We can't look to these men for accountability, because they are disconnected from their essence, themselves. What you have here is a relationship with a drug, not a son. Every single time you act as if your son is there, engaging with you, talking to you, you deceive yourself, and I will be harsh here, you betray your real son who is there under everything. Your real son is held hostage to the drug. He may look like himself. He's not.

It's like a hostage situation. Your son is held hostage by the drug. Every time you make an agreement with the person who looks like your son, you are in fact empowering the drug, not him.

What will happen sooner or later is that you will know this at the deepest level possible. You will find that part of you that has known this all along, and you will be unable to continue empowering the drug. And you will know what to say to all of the people around you who are confused and hurting.....But you will be sure. You will be certain. You will have found yourself and you will act from that place.

To be fair there is a school of thought that presents another way. It's called harm reduction. And there have been parents here that took this position. This way of thinking is to support the addict. There are programs that work with people this way. I am only speaking from my own experience which is not harm reduction.

I tried and tried to support my son to live in the way that I thought was better. It never worked. I could not accept my son's behavior and how it affected me, my home and my welfare. My son chose to live in ways that were incompatible with who I am and how I live. I lost who I was by continuing to try to reconcile that which was fundamentally incompatible.

That is how I see your situation. I see you as trying to deal with a situation that is completely foreign to who you are, how you live, and your basic values in life. You keep dealing with your son as if he was an ethical, responsible and caring man. And he keeps responding to your outstretched hand, by betrayal. That is because everything he does is motivated by the drug. I wish it were different. It is what it is.

 

[Copabanana]

I will say one more thing. By stepping back we empower our children. We show them our confidence that they have the solutions for themselves. And we show them respect, to decide about their own lives. It is NOT to give up on them. It is NOT to give up hope that they can and will live well, at some point. What it is is to acknowledge that they are the deciders here. That their living better or well comes from their own decisions, their own efforts, their own motivation. Not ours. It is to acknowledge that truth. That we never, ever had the power to prevail over adults with their own power center and responsibility for their choices. They will be the ones to confront their addictions and their characters. There can be no other way.

There is a paradox here. By stepping back and acknowledging what has always been true, that they can manage as they decide, we may foster the very thing we seek, that they choose better and well. Our sons lives are their own business and their own responsibility. They are adult men.

If we are afraid, our fear is our own business and responsibility. It is not appropriately played out in their lives. This took me a long, long time to accept.

 

[Crayola13]

I know what you mean about the creek party at the vocational school. It does no good to tell those kids it's going to hurt them in the future.

 

[Overwhelmed1]

Andy, you are in good hands here. When you are needing to, come here and release.
The people are knowledgeable, comforting and can write beautifully.
Don't give up and try hard not to give in.
I will continue to pray for all here.

Peace and Love

 

[Andy4382]

I will say one more thing. By stepping back we empower our children. We show them our confidence that they have the solutions for themselves. And we show them respect, to decide about their own lives. It is NOT to give up on them. It is NOT to give up hope that they can and will live well, at some point. What it is is to acknowledge that they are the deciders here. That their living better or well comes from their own decisions, their own efforts, their own motivation. Not ours. It is to acknowledge that truth. That we never, ever had the power to prevail over adults with their own power center and responsibility for their choices. They will be the ones to confront their addictions and their characters. There can be no other way.

There is a paradox here. By stepping back and acknowledging what has always been true, that they can manage as they decide, we may foster the very thing we seek, that they choose better and well. Our sons lives are their own business and their own responsibility. They are adult men.

If we are afraid, our fear is our own business and responsibility. It is not appropriately played out in their lives. This took me a long, long time to accept.

Well this afternoon I wanted my wife and I to agree on some boundaries. So we sat down and came up with some. Before we got done my son over heard me talking about what some of the boundaries needed to be and didn't like that we where talking about him. So he got a little ill and I did to. So finally we got them done ask him to sit down to go over them. got started on them and wouldn't let my wife tell them to him without interrupting her. So I started and he did the same thing to me. So he said he had a important phone call and took it to his bed room while we where discussing the boundaries. Well after 10 minutes or so we where wondering if he was coming back so the wife went looking for him. He finally came back out and got thru it. The phone call was a suicidal hot line. We had no idea what it was, we thought it was a job offer or something. Then the wife said she thought it was a rehab center. I had no idea he was in that kind of shape. He swore up and that he hasn't used in 2 months. Well I my have said the wrong thing about that some one needed to take him so I said take your car, cause I thought at first it was a rehab center. So this afternoon we took him to where he made the phone call to the suicidal place. So when I said take you car, I didnt know it was that place or I would not have said that. when you in a argument you say stupid stuff you don't really mean. Also he didn't want me to go when they went so I said I am or I want be here when you get back. So some more words you don't mean to say in a argument. So now my wife thinks that all three of us need to be separated for a while. The only defence I had was that if we where living here by our selves we would not be having this conversation. So now she is in one bed and I'm in another. Some of the things he has put me thru over the years of lies, drug use, drinking, dui, hell raising and the past 3-4 years of stealing from us puts a very bad taste in your mouth. I have hollered, i have verbally abused him, i have had to hit him, I have kick him out, I have threaten to kick him numerous times, I have done so much to him to see if he would just do the right things in life. I do love him, I have helped him in countless ways, I have bought him trucks ,cars , hunting rifle, hunting gear, took him on vacations, ect….. I fell I've done him the best that I could do, but still maybe my good enough wasn't enough in the right direction. My wife wants my son to live with us until he can afford a place of his own even though he is and addict. Some people say buy him a tent and drop him off in the woods. Just because she doesn't want him to be homeless living on the street or under bridge. This Mother is not going to choose their child over anything else no matter what it or who it is. I have read all this forum to her since I have started posting. knowing she may find her son in his own bed dead of a overdose than him die somewhere on the street, under a bridge or any other cold place on this earth she will take that chance and let him live under the same roof as her for as long as it takes. So now I may need to seek some help.

 

[Copabanana]

The phone call was a suicidal hot line.

Dear Andy: Many of our adult children make suicidal statements and/or feel suicidal triggered by our setting boundaries or the sense that we will. My own son did this repeatedly. For years. And I have had to call the police and he was hospitalized.
And there is also the possibility that your son is desperate. That he knows on some level he has real problems and by setting boundaries he is forced to the place where he will face his problems.

I have hollered, i have verbally abused him, i have had to hit him, I have kick him out

I would venture to say that most of us have gone to a place where we don't recognize what we've become, by enduring the unendurable. I know I was pushed to a place where I lost myself. Actually, I pushed myself to that place, by asking myself to endure what I should never have endured.

We matter, Andy. It matters that by "helping" and "protecting" these adults, we compromise our essence.

My wife wants my son to live with us until he can afford a place of his own even though he is and addict.

This is hard.

I have a suggestion. What about Al Anon, which is a group for family members of addicted people. There are probably online meetings as long as social isolation is still in effect. Many of the parents here have participated in these groups and have found them to be fundamental to their own recovery. Because this is thing we find to be true: the only change we have any control over is our own. Do you think your wife might attend with you? Even if she won't, why not consider it?

The other thing that many parents do is consider therapy. Either personal therapy or marital therapy.

Andy. I am so sorry for this hard, hard thing you are enduring and that your family is enduring and that your son is enduring.

Is your wife open to posting here? There have been married couples who both posted. I wish she would either read here, or post. Or both.

 

[BusynMember1]

Andy, you are a good, caring man who needs help badly. Validation. Your son is not a little boy. He is 32! Have you ever sought out real life help, like we did? We go to Al Anon and a therapist who understands addiction and how it affects the family. Without personal real life help we never could have saved our marriage or let our oldest go her own way. Your son is very abusive and stronger than you and your wife. I don't think you are safe in your home with him.

Would your wife go to therapy with you? If not you would probably still benefit greatly by therapy. You have a neutral third party who can guide you toward deciding what you need to do for yourself. You can only control one person. You. You have no control over your son's behavior or your wife's. But you have total control over yourself. I personally love this forum, but I feel everyone can benefit from real time support. So I recommend Al Anon or therapy or both. A church family can also help. Now during these times there are virtual meetings and virtual therapy appointments.

My prayers and good wishes are with you.

 

[Andy4382]

Dear Andy: Many of our adult children make suicidal statements and/or feel suicidal triggered by our setting boundaries or the sense that we will. My own son did this repeatedly. For years. And I have had to call the police and he was hospitalized.
And there is also the possibility that your son is desperate. That he knows on some level he has real problems and by setting boundaries he is forced to the place where he will face his problems.
I would venture to say that most of us have gone to a place where we don't recognize what we've become, by enduring the unendurable. I know I was pushed to a place where I lost myself. Actually, I pushed myself to that place, by asking myself to endure what I should never have endured.

We matter, Andy. It matters that by "helping" and "protecting" these adults, we compromise our essence.
This is hard.

I have a suggestion. What about Al Anon, which is a group for family members of addicted people. There are probably online meetings as long as social isolation is still in effect. Many of the parents here have participated in these groups and have found them to be fundamental to their own recovery. Because this is thing we find to be true: the only change we have any control over is our own. Do you think your wife might attend with you? Even if she won't, why not consider it?

The other thing that many parents do is consider therapy. Either personal therapy or marital therapy.

Andy. I am so sorry for this hard, hard thing you are enduring and that your family is enduring and that your son is enduring.

Is your wife open to posting here? There have been married couples who both posted. I wish she would either read here, or post. Or both.

I had a older brother back 30 years ago, he was 32, with 3 kids when his wife left him for another man. He had addiction to pot and liked to drink some. I told him to stop his drinking and get a grip, you have 3 kids to thank about. He thought that everyone was keeping a eye on him and he got to high and was messing around with a tire swing in the back yard at my moms house. Well he ended up hanging himself. MY SON IS 32. I don't really think he had the nerve to do it, I believe he was looking for attention and past out with the tire rope around his neck. My son acts like him sometimes, does like him sometimes. That's why my wife will not turn him loose until he has help and working a rehab program. I am going to let her start making the decisions when where and how. I need to stay out of it , all I do is stir the stink pot. Why? Because I need to learn that I can not fix him, but I keep trying and it just cause to much grief and hurtful feelings. In other words I cant keep my mouth shut. I will ask her to read the last 24 hours and see if she might post on here.

 

[Copabanana]

I am going to let her start making the decisions when where and how. I

Dear Andy. To me, your past experience with your brother explains why this is so traumatizing to you. I think this makes sense, to let your wife take the lion's share of responsibility for now, while you try to step back.

I do hope your wife decides to read and to post here. I think your story is not unique. I know

I have had the same confusion, having a hard time distinguishing between past and a present that seems to be a repetition of something that was impossible to bear the first time around. My father was an addict who died living on skid row. When my son began to hit the rocks my fear and dread was impossible to bear. Little by little I was able to free the present from the past. My son is not my father. My son deserves to live his life free from fears from the past. It's a process, for all of us. I am so very, very sorry for this pain and agony you are having to deal with.

You are modeling to me kindness to myself at a time when I sorely need this lesson. I think there are times when the best thing we can do is show kindness and compassion for ourselves and yet the first impulse is either to get frantic and traumatized or get out the whip. Which I was doing before I read your post. This post of yours is helping me find compassion for myself, and to give myself a way out of a situation where I felt like a butterfly in a jar with alcohol, flailing to live. (Unfortunately we used to do this when we were kids. It was a science experiment!) Reading your post I see I can get myself out of the jar. I don't have to stay there. Thank you.

 

[Andy4382]

I know its been a while. I'm trying not to let this totally consume my every move. He got out of the hospital and came home. They put him on some kind of medications to help his moods and had to put all the guns in the gun safe. We moved him to our apartment behind the house so he would not be in the same house as us. He still has to come over and eat. He always says let my actions do my talking, I'm gonna do better. He did start working the week before mothers day weekend. He didn't get paid but ask me for $60 bucks on Saturday morning to buy his mother something for mothers day. All I had was a$100 dollar bill. The wife and I said ok but, Bring my change and the receipts for the $60 bucks. I made it clear, Twice, I want receipts for the $60 bucks. He had no receipts when he came back for The $60 bucks, did have the $40. Didn't have a mothers day gift either. Told a flat out lie about ordering perfume from Walmart that wasn't in stock. So the fight was on with him and his mom. I stayed away from the fight, I just talked. Fighting with him is what he wants. He got paid on Monday and didn't give me my $60 bucks. He worked 4 days last week got paid $416 bucks. Gave the wife $100 bill on Friday and put it on the refrigerator so we would have for just what ever we need. Sunday afternoon it was gone, he got it said he needed some gas and dip. He told us he paid on his loans he got to buy drugs with the rest of his pay that week. So yes he is still stealing from us at any chance he gets. I have 4 security cameras and I had my truck parked in the driveway and one of the cameras was on the door of my truck. I put my bill fold in the door today. I had $20 bucks 10 and two 5's. I went to park my truck and I checked my money and noticed $5 bucks was missing. So I went to my security system which records all cameras. Found where he got the money out of my truck while I was relaxing after supper. We confronted him with the video and asked him if he was still using. He said he wasn't , gave the 5 dollars back and said he would leave. He has always said let my actions do the talking, I'm gonna do better.

 

[Copabanana]

He has always said let my actions do the talking,

You're in a tough spot, Andy. Because of history. And because your own needs and your wife's are not in synch.

I remember when you were last here that the decision was to put her in charge, and that you would back off. At that point I remember your wife did not want him to leave.

You know already the drill. None of this, really, is his fault. It seems he's an addict. And addiction is driving this. It's his responsibility yes. He needs to clean himself up and his life up. But you know he's an addict. Already, from experience we could have anticipated all of this. Nobody here judges you. But until we accept we are part of this, we continue to contribute to the mess. Until we change ourselves. That's the only power we have.

You set him up, by fronting the money. (Actually, before that, allowing him back in the house, without sustained and prolonged treatment for addiction, and demonstrated self-sufficiency. You know that. And all of the rest followed from that.

. All I had was a$100 dollar bill. The wife and I said ok but, Bring my change and the receipts for the $60 bucks. I made it clear, Twice, I want receipts for the $60 bucks. He had no receipts when he came back for The $60 bucks, did have the $40

He got paid on Monday and didn't give me my $60 bucks.

What he meant here, was "so that he would have (money) for just whatever he needs."

so we would have for just what ever we need. Sunday afternoon it was gone

Andy. Each of these behaviors is a typical behavior. And he will keep doing it until he gets long-term treatment and recovery under his belt. What you are accepting when you bring him back, are those behaviors. Until he gets sustained treatment. There are sober living homes run by rescue missions, that are completely free for indigent people. But he's working. These places charge minimally for room, board, recovery options, etc. My son was in one twice.

I think you and wife need to talk about what's best for son. Glad you came back.

 

[Andy4382]

Well like I said the other day when I got him on camera stealing my money I let it fester into a couple days later into verbal abuse on him. Drinking a little didn't help the matter much either. I ended up in a motel room that night. My wife loves family and now it doesn't seem to be a family life for her any more with me and him staying into fussing all the time. I'm looking into find me some help from a counselor to deal with my situation. My wife told me she loved me but some times love isn't enough.

 

[Copabanana]

My wife loves family and now it doesn't seem to be a family life for her any more with me and him staying into fussing all the time.

Hi Andy

Good for you. Have you thought about Al Anon? Or even AA? I went to AA and it helped me a great deal. Both programs will help to set boundaries to protect yourself. To me, that's the basic issue, here.

I hear you that your wife loves family. She needs to decide the family she wants to protect, because what's happening now is that her protecting your son is killing you. You are being tormented and tortured by this situation. As long as this keeps going this way, this will keep repeating itself. Personally, I don't think your son is being helped either. He is being sacrificed so that your wife can feel she is "loving" him. How is it love to help him keep killing himself? How is it loving you by continuing these circumstances that are killing you?

I am sorry to be so blunt. I get it that you may drink too much, sometimes, in order to cope with an intolerable situation. Some of us may even drink too much all the time, no matter whether there is provocation. But this is an intolerable situation, I believe. Nobody in your shoes could tolerate it. To have lost your brother in the circumstances you endured is a horrible trigger and trauma.

I don't think this is loving of your wife. You didn't ask me, but I'm saying it. Until she can consider your needs, along with her own, I think you need to protect yourself. I think going to the motel was a good move on your part.

You can't be sacrificed in this situation. You deserve so much better. Love, Copa

 

[Andy4382]

My wife and I have a long history together. I was 18 and she was 15 when we run off and got married. We lived with my parents for 6 months moved out and haven't looked back. Going on 38 years now. One side of the family we from help get us sued for every thing we had 15 years ago and the other side didn't help with parents as they got elderly. Both our dads were dead before I turned 21. We are a true legend of a love story from these parts. I will stand by her and not turn my back on them. I know my son isn't being helped right now. The court thing got postpone due to covid-19 till July 9th. That would have help him in away we cant help him. Its tuff being in this situation ,Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I didn't use to be or am I now a big drinker. Some times you need to calm your nerves a little. I do have a appointment Tuesday with a counselor for me and my wife ,my son can go to if he would like. Most likely he want cause he may not be here by that time the way him and wife has been going at it the past few days for lying so much. My wife actually called him a asxhole today. My wife in the past has always consider my needs and a whole lot of others in the past. There is no way my wife would ever hurt me again, ever, the way we as this family have put her thru. Yes I am defending her. She is one hexl of a woman. She wants what she wants , she is hexl bent to make it happen and I will help her even it means chaos. She cleared her step-dad of c-dif if you know what that is. I will say today she has seen some things that she has finally realized that she cant do for him. She was so mad at him, she told he to get out of the apartment. She got out of the house and away from him ,me and work to do some shopping with her older sister. I called and checked on her and she seemed to be I better mood enjoying a day away from chaos. I'm now preparing her a meal so when she returns home she can relax some more. Copa I really want to thank you for your replies. They really do make a whole lot of since and very helpful. Never hold back be blunt, I can be very blunt also. Thanks.

 

[Copabanana]

Andy, I feel protective of you. You are so vulnerable here. But I recognize totally what your wife is enduring. I went through similar, and I did what she is doing. I guess I am calling upon you to protect you. You are a loving man, husband and father.

Thank you for giving us background on your love story. Of course you're right. Love isn't enough in our situations. Sometimes there's just too much love for our own good. I'm learning that love involves boundaries. Not just an open, giving heart. We have to protect love.

I hope so much your wife soon recognizes she can't protect your son from himself. I went on years and years. Maybe I did the right thing. Maybe not.

I hope you keep posting Andy. Your wife said a few weeks ago she might start reading and posting. I'd love to get to "know" her. Copa

 

[JMom]

Hi Andy,

I have enjoyed watching your story unfold during your conversation with Copa. She has certainly earned her stripes in this arena. It was her straight talk that pulled me out of despair. I was so incredibly broken when I came here. I am sad that you and your wife are so strained. It seems that she has been to a point where she is fed up as well. I think her self-isolation is her way of self-care. I am sure she sees every bit as much as you do, she has just retreated. I get it, as there were several times that I just shut down.

I am proud of you guys for your fierce loyalty to one another during this whole situation. I feel differently about love. I think the love between you and your wife IS enough. It will bring you closer when boundaries are set. I am happy that you gave us some background on your story. I am sorry about your brother. I was a little confused. Did he have an accident or commit suicide? I have to say, with all that has happened in your lives, I completely understand your wife not wanting to put him out. That being said, I think she will get there.

Keep your mouth shut! I'm kidding, but seriously, let her make some decisions, boundaries and she too will get there. My husband kept him mouth shut during my son's addiction. I saw the disappointed, frustrated look he gave me every time I let my son back in the house.

After he got sober, I cried and told my husband that his silence helped me to get fed up on my own. I already knew how he felt, I didn't need further stress, guilt and judgement. I told him I was grateful for his support of ME, which was so important during that time.

I say, continue to protect her and her feelings, as well as you and yours. Your gentleness towards her would no doubt be appreciated. You guys made it this long sharing the same morals, values and love.

One of the first steps I took toward boundaries with my son was to tell him that I had sacrificed my morals to support his lack thereof. I told him the reason I DON'T do drugs is because I don't believe in turning your mind over to something else. I gave him the analogy of him riding in a car and the driver jumping out the window. You have now put someone else in the driver's seat and that person is high as hello.

I also said that I don't steal and take advantage of other people. I told him that those are all things HE had chosen to do and that I was now lying for him. My final stance was that I don't do drugs because I don't want to sacrifice myself to worship a drug. He could take his drugs and new morals and live somewhere else because I refuse to bear the consequences and financial ruin that HE created. I also said that I was sorry for not teaching him skills at 15 to take care of himself.

I told him it was going to be rough but that he had to learn now or it was like I was leading a lamb to slaughter. When I die, no grown person in their right mind would take care of a grown man. He was 15 when he started using, so when he first got sober, he still acted 15 (he was 21). It took about 6 months but he grew up fast and started behaving age appropriately. He grew up so fast that it shocked me.

Andy, here the kicker for you and your lovely bride: This is all 100% preventable and your son is the ONLY person that can decide not to do drugs. This disease is different than most, it affects the brain and often causes mental illness, BUT, he gives it to himself. Most other diseases are not preventable.

He didn't catch this disease by any other means than CHOICE. I say this to help relieve your feelings of guilt. You did not do this to him, neither did your wife or your past family tragedies. He did this and he can decide not to do this.

Andy, please stop giving this grown man money. Just please. Choose differently. You ALL have choices here to make, model good ones for him, such as boundaries, financial responsibility and strong values.

I say all this as suggestions and things that have worked for me. I'm not actually telling you what to do. Every situation is unique, but have similar solutions. I've made so many mistakes, suffered far too long and let my son run over us like a doormat. It felt really good to take up for myself and he was proud of me, despite it cutting him off.

I feel protective of you as well. Keep your lovely wife close in hand. Don't let her go, do it together. I'm praying for all three of you and hope you get it figured out. I think you both are well on your way to success and self-care.

I can't wait for you to have your sober son back (this is my prayer) and for God's sake get back in her bed. (If she will let you). wink wink. .

Jmom

 

[Andy4382]

Andy, I feel protective of you. You are so vulnerable here. But I recognize totally what your wife is enduring. I went through similar, and I did what she is doing. I guess I am calling upon you to protect you. You are a loving man, husband and father.

Thank you for giving us background on your love story. Of course you're right. Love isn't enough in our situations. Sometimes there's just too much love for our own good. I'm learning that love involves boundaries. Not just an open, giving heart. We have to protect love.

I hope so much your wife soon recognizes she can't protect your son from himself. I went on years and years. Maybe I did the right thing. Maybe not.

I hope you keep posting Andy. Your wife said a few weeks ago she might start reading and posting. I'd love to get to "know" her. Copa

After hexl broke loose between mom and son yesterday morning about lying to her, she had a lot better rest of the day. She came home from shopping with her sister in a very good mood and I had a somewhat romantic setting for supper. We talked about the day and or son. It rained yesterday and he didn't work. Worked only three days this week. He want get paid till next week i'm guessing and its only $312 bucks. He lies so much you cant tell if its true or not. He sit in the apartment all day doing nothing but watching tv most likely. He supposed to keep it clean, I don't know. The place he is in right now in his life no one wants to be around him. All his friends must know cause we don't see them anymore. We having a get together with some family here Monday ,lets pray everything goes well.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Andy

I hear a change in this last post. It sounds like acceptance that you have no role or control with son, in this, and it sounds like you're making emotional distance. And it sounds like there is a strong boundary growing in your brain, an understanding that son is involved in a battle of his own making, that he's got to fight himself. But most of all that you and your wife are separate as a unit and that you will take care of each other. I hope your get together Monday with family goes well.

 

[Andy4382]

Hi Andy,

I have enjoyed watching your story unfold during your conversation with Copa. She has certainly earned her stripes in this arena. It was her straight talk that pulled me out of despair. I was so incredibly broken when I came here. I am sad that you and your wife are so strained. It seems that she has been to a point where she is fed up as well. I think her self-isolation is her way of self-care. I am sure she sees every bit as much as you do, she has just retreated. I get it, as there were several times that I just shut down.

I am proud of you guys for your fierce loyalty to one another during this whole situation. I feel differently about love. I think the love between you and your wife IS enough. It will bring you closer when boundaries are set. I am happy that you gave us some background on your story. I am sorry about your brother. I was a little confused. Did he have an accident or commit suicide? I have to say, with all that has happened in your lives, I completely understand your wife not wanting to put him out. That being said, I think she will get there.

Keep your mouth shut! I'm kidding, but seriously, let her make some decisions, boundaries and she too will get there. My husband kept him mouth shut during my son's addiction. I saw the disappointed, frustrated look he gave me every time I let my son back in the house.

After he got sober, I cried and told my husband that his silence helped me to get fed up on my own. I already knew how he felt, I didn't need further stress, guilt and judgement. I told him I was grateful for his support of ME, which was so important during that time.

I say, continue to protect her and her feelings, as well as you and yours. Your gentleness towards her would no doubt be appreciated. You guys made it this long sharing the same morals, values and love.

One of the first steps I took toward boundaries with my son was to tell him that I had sacrificed my morals to support his lack thereof. I told him the reason I DON'T do drugs is because I don't believe in turning your mind over to something else. I gave him the analogy of him riding in a car and the driver jumping out the window. You have now put someone else in the driver's seat and that person is high as hello.

I also said that I don't steal and take advantage of other people. I told him that those are all things HE had chosen to do and that I was now lying for him. My final stance was that I don't do drugs because I don't want to sacrifice myself to worship a drug. He could take his drugs and new morals and live somewhere else because I refuse to bear the consequences and financial ruin that HE created. I also said that I was sorry for not teaching him skills at 15 to take care of himself.

I told him it was going to be rough but that he had to learn now or it was like I was leading a lamb to slaughter. When I die, no grown person in their right mind would take care of a grown man. He was 15 when he started using, so when he first got sober, he still acted 15 (he was 21). It took about 6 months but he grew up fast and started behaving age appropriately. He grew up so fast that it shocked me.

Andy, here the kicker for you and your lovely bride: This is all 100% preventable and your son is the ONLY person that can decide not to do drugs. This disease is different than most, it affects the brain and often causes mental illness, BUT, he gives it to himself. Most other diseases are not preventable.

He didn't catch this disease by any other means than CHOICE. I say this to help relieve your feelings of guilt. You did not do this to him, neither did your wife or your past family tragedies. He did this and he can decide not to do this.

Andy, please stop giving this grown man money. Just please. Choose differently. You ALL have choices here to make, model good ones for him, such as boundaries, financial responsibility and strong values.

I say all this as suggestions and things that have worked for me. I'm not actually telling you what to do. Every situation is unique, but have similar solutions. I've made so many mistakes, suffered far too long and let my son run over us like a doormat. It felt really good to take up for myself and he was proud of me, despite it cutting him off.

I feel protective of you as well. Keep your lovely wife close in hand. Don't let her go, do it together. I'm praying for all three of you and hope you get it figured out. I think you both are well on your way to success and self-care.

I can't wait for you to have your sober son back (this is my prayer) and for God's sake get back in her bed. (If she will let you). wink wink. .

Jmom

Hey jmom, copa is great I like what she says. My wife is depressed for 3-4 years now after her mom passed away with dementia. That was her best friend as I am to. The other family and marriage problems as well. She is beautiful inside and out. She dosnt give up easily, some day I pray she will realize that she cant make him change. I'm trying my best to stay out of this kinda like you husband. I can be very verbally abusive. I have came to realize i'm not going to change him but also i'm not gonna turn my back on them. We was to do some boundaries with him a couple weeks ago and ended up in a psychiatric ward. He called a suicide hot line so we took him to the hospital. He was out in 5 days or so with medications to help him. Telling him not to do drugs is like telling the grass not to grow. He takes advantage every chance he gets of us. Has no morals or sorry for anything he does until he has done it. My brother, well he had drug and alcohol addiction also. He had 3 kids and his wife was leaving him for another drug and alcoholic person. She was no better than him and the last child didn't belong to him. He was looking for attention and no one was watching him. I think more of a accident. He was most likely depressed ,bi-polar, drunk and high on weed. It was ruled a suicide. Yes I need to keep my mouth shut, sounds like your husband and I are a little alike. We just cant seem to do it. He doesn't want boundaries. He wants to do what he wants to do. just like this afternoon i'm weed eating the place and he is sitting in a chair watching me. He finally came and took the weed eater. You and your husband know to well about intimacy, it sucks with all this going down. Just aint there as much as it once was. wink wink. Thanks for your reply .