Son spiraling and I'm lost

[Michelle809]

I've been reading on here for a few years off and on and each time thinking "my kids not that bad and I think he will get it together soon". Sadly I think today is the beginning of me thinking he will be able to turn it around. Boy have I been humbled.

Some background: Son is now 20. Started stealing from me when he was around 15. The lies and manipulation started soon thereafter. He moved out a year ago and I was glad (tired of having to watch my wallet and dealing with the lies). No substance abuse issues at that time. His longterm girlfriend broke up with him earlier this year due to his lies, cheating, verbal abuse. Son threatened suicide at that time several times. He and I were able to talk about it and after a couple of months I thought I had my son back (he was doing so well).

I have since moved states due to my job. He has said that he has thought about moving to be with me due to not being able to pay his bills (low paying job, expensive tastes, girlfriend moving out and leaving him with all the bills). I told him that I didn't think that was a good idea due to him stealing from me dozens of times and all of the lying.

He and I talked a few weeks ago and he said this same ex-girlfriend was now pregnant. I yelled at him and gave him numerous reasons why this wasn't a good idea for him, the girlfriend or the unborn child. One reason being was his car was just repossessed the week before he told me about this pregnancy and I gave him a one day loan of 2K to get the car back with promises and his word to pay it back the very next day (I still haven't gotten that money). He has now blocked my number. :/

I was worried that he was not safe so I was finally able to get a hold of the girlfriend. She said she thought she was pregnant but is not (thankfully), is trying to get away from my son and fears for her life. She has plans to move hours away in a couple months and is trying to be cordial with him until her move.

Well today she text me and said she was going to get an order of protection against him. I asked her to call me and so far she hasn't. Not that I was going to try to talk her out of it, I just want to know what he's doing to push it to this step. He has cut off everyone in the family (I think that's a good thing for most of my family) except my college age daughter. She's been trying to help him, but even she knows he needs to want the help first. She confided in me today that he said he's been drinking every night - something very new for him.

 

[Michelle809]

This brings me to my fears.
I'm scared of him committing suicide.
I'm scared of him harming others (particularly the ex-girlfriend).
I'm scared he may end up in jail (he's already on probation for a theft from his job a couple years ago).
My brother and I were the only ones for a long time that held on to my son getting it together, my brother has given up months ago and now I'm giving up as well.

I have to go back to my the city where my son lives this weekend for work and was planning to get in touch with him because I have some belongings in his place. I usually stay with him while in town but I think I will stay with a friend instead. Not sure what to talk about if I do get to see him.

 

[Michelle809]

Something I just thought of, how do you all get over the shame of all of this? I have one coworker who has two difficult children about the same age as my son and she and I can talk privately. Seems as though everyone else at work has young adults off at college and/or working and generally doing what they are supposed to be doing at this age.

 

[newstart]

Something I just thought of, how do you all get over the shame of all of this? I have one coworker who has two difficult children about the same age as my son and she and I can talk privately. Seems as though everyone else at work has young adults off at college and/or working and generally doing what they are supposed to be doing at this age.

Hi Michelle809, Welcome. I read your post and felt the desperation that you are carrying. Your post reminded me of my life many times with my daughter. If you have the strength and you can do it, this is what I did and it was the best thing I ever did to get things moving in the right direction. I COMPLETELY disconnected from my daughter for 3 months. I did not answer her calls, did not let her into my home, I took my voice off of my answering machine to let her know what life is like without me in it. It was the hardest thing I ever did but it did let her know I will not put up with her BS. I did see some positive changes after 3 months. My daughter is now 36 and life with her is far from being easy but the major belligerence from her is much better. I had to make the changes to make her change because she would have stayed the same and NO way could I tolerate that level of abuse. The lies, stealing, disrespect and other evil stuff that she put me through was not going to be a part of my life. I pray you have the strength to just blow him off no matter the threats. I know when they hang the 'suicide' over your head it is very hard but if they really plan to kill themself there is nothing we can do, it is the worst form of mental abuse. I wish you all the strength in the world to do whatever it takes to not keep on taking the abuse.

 

[RN0441]

Hi Michelle

Your son has to want to help himself. He's not a small child any longer and he has to realize that he is making poor choices and those are the reasons bad things are happening to him.

It does not sound like he is ready to realize that yet.

My son also went off the rails at 15 and he is now almost 23 and is doing well in a faith based program and has been sober for 10 months. I really had thought he would die from his drug use because he just could not stay sober and just didn't seem to care to as much as WE did. That was a hard thing for me to accept but I had to.

I prayed in vain for years hoping that he would SEE what he was doing to his life. I never gave up on my faith though through all of it.

We were lucky that we were able to force him into this - as one therapist said we don't have to wait until HE is ready. He wants a relationship with us and he knows that unless he is sober, he will not.

My best recommendation is to get help for yourself. Whether it's a private therapist that specializes in addiction or AA or praying to your higher power. That is the only thing that got me through it. We cannot live their lives for them or make their choices. We can only control ourselves.

Keep reading and posting because it really does help.

There are many wise and caring people on this forum. It helped me tremendously.

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Michelle, welcome and I am so sorry for your aching heart and need to be here. It is hard when our children grow to adult age but do not grow up. That’s how I view my two, they are perpetually stuck at 15. I attribute that to their early pot dabbling, partying and eventually moving on to heavier drugs.
The lying, stealing and manipulating came with that. You wrote your son started this with you at 15, but did not abuse substances, has he ever been diagnosed? I often wonder for my two, if there are underlying issues attached along with their addiction.
You are on the right track in not allowing your son to live with you. He has already shown you that you cannot trust him. No one deserves to be mistreated and stolen from.
We loaned our daughter money years ago to pay off credit card debt. That was never repaid. It was a hard lesson learned.
You wrote of the fears you have for your son, this is part of what most of us have gone through with our off the rails adult kids. There is an acronym F.ear O.bligation G.uilt. It is this FOG, that keeps us entangled with the lifestyles, drama and chaos our wayward kids reap. Our kids spiral, and we feel lost, saddened and in despair. All understandable reactions, because we love them and want the best for them, but they have got to want that for themselves.
The thing is, we have no control over their choices.We can’t change the path they choose, but we can learn to shift focus and strengthen ourselves to react to their consequences differently. Set healthy boundaries.
The shame factor fits right in there with the FOG. That old saying “The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.” does not apply. Our kids grow up and choose their own way. Period. Yes, it is sad when their choices are so awful. It is hard when workmates speak of their kids off to college. My twos shenanigans surely don’t fit in that conversation. Talk about a room silencer. I share with people I know will be supportive and understanding.
I am not ashamed of what I cannot control. I did the best job I could raising them.
You are stronger than you know, and have set some good boundaries already. Getting support for this journey is important. As RN mentioned, we cannot control our adult kids, but we can work to strengthen ourselves, learn to channel our energy and emotional response, get our lives back.
We don’t have to feel lost, with each episode our kids go through. In fact, that doesn’t help them, and is so stressful for us to go down that rabbit hole along with them. You are worth the effort to work at redefining yourself, and setting goals to rise above your sons situation, rather than feeling lost, make that effort to find yourself. I feel it is the best thing we can do for our wayward adult kids. Show them through our own choices, how to live well.
Again, welcome. You are not alone.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Michelle809]

Thank you all for "listening". I have found that even just typing it out on here is cathartic.

There is next to no one in my personal or work life that understands this situation. After the repossession episode and loaning the 2k a few weeks ago, I stopped paying his car insurance. I know that's something I should have done a long time ago, but I think we all know that we have to get to points like that on our own time.

I have mostly gotten over my intense fear of him committing suicide. He and I have talked about that several times and I know I have no control over him doing that or not. Still wish he would want better for himself though. I'll have to figure out what to do about this weekend. I would like to see him, if nothing else to let him know I love him. His sister says when they talk he just says that no one would understand what he's going through and that he's mad at himself for disappointing everyone.

His lease on his place is up sometime in the next month, but I'm still very hesitant on him living with me. There would have to be a strict no lying/stealing contract and I'm not so sure if either of us can hold up to our ends (him not stealing/me kicking him out). His plan was for military maybe in January - I think he will probably have some permanent record by then that will prevent that.

New Leaf - no diagnosis. My thoughts were that my brother went through a similar stage around that age and came out of it around age 19 and I just thought it was a teen phase. I know for sure he has depression, but my gut tells me it is situational depression due to his circumstances (not totally sure though). I may look up some counselors through my insurance to give to him this weekend if I see him.

His ex-girlfriend never contacted me back so I'm not sure what her texts were about on yesterday. Who knows. They both obviously have some issues, but she seems to be slightly more stable than him.

So thankful for my oldest daughter. I have 2 younger daughter's still to go through the teen age, but hopefully they will follow older daughter's path instead of their brother's. I look at them now and think there is no way they would ever do those things, but I know I felt that way about DS as well.

 

[RN0441]

Hi Michelle:

You did not mention if your son's father is in the picture. If so, what does he say?

I agree that by having him life with you it may only further deteriorate his behaviors. What has he done to show you that living with you will work this time?

We are having our son move back with us (in a new state) after he graduates from his 13 month program in November and to be honest, I am TERRIFIED of going back to the way it was and know I can never live like that again. I'm so afraid of his failure that if I even talk about it I end up in tears. If he had not done this and we had not seen a change in him there is no way I'd put any of us in this situation.

Agree that writing on this forum is like journalizing and it is amazingly helpful. Also we hope that maybe just one person can read it and get some comfort or new ideas.

We are all in this together and we really can help each other.

 

[Michelle809]

RN0441, the issue with his father is a long one. He and I divorced right around the same time all of this started with DS. Not sure if that made matters worse or if all of the was going to happen with DS or not. My ex couldn't cope with the divorce and moved a couple hours away, still this many years later he wants to get back with me. DS has since had an on/off relationship with his dad. I spoke with my ex last week and told him I think if he had showed DS that life goes on after a relationship that DS would have had an easier time moving on from his ex-girlfriend.

My ex had become very controlling and verbally abusive. I saw that same pattern repeat out with DS and his girlfriend. My ex still 5 years later has not moved on and talks to the kids about he and I getting back together. DS is not able to let go of his girlfriend and keeps trying to get back with her even though it's over.
Maybe a year or so after DS started stealing from me (and he has only ever stolen from me and his job), he finally admitted that my ex had been telling him that he (my ex) was financially broke because I split up the family and taking all his money with child support. DS said that he was acting out and because he was trying to get back at me for splitting up the family.
With that said, my ex is not a whole lot of help with much of anything (financially, physically, emotionally).

 

[Michelle809]

And yes this is very helpful. I imagine like me lurking forever and finding help that there are probably many others doing the same.

 

[Acacia]

so glad you joined us in this forum. It’s not unusual to go back and forth on what is the best course of action, especially since our difficult children can put on masks like Jekyll and Hyde. In other words, we can be fooled until we are finally able to see through their masks. Then at least we can see clearly enough to set boundaries.

Your fears are legitimate. I have felt the same fears, and that hasoften has kept me enabling. I definitely, personally, would not allow your son into your home given the current circumstances. I understand if you do not judge you for it, but for your own sanity and safety, I think not.

I, too, have felt sorrow and the grief of watching the children of my friends prosper and join the adult community. These feelings are natural; we want the best for our children. We want to share the joy of their successes; therefore, when they are off the rails it hurts on a lot of levels.

Everything you do to become healthier and stronger, whether your son chooses to change or not, is a model for your son.

 

[Michelle809]

Well, I saw my son this weekend. Had to go by his job since my number was blocked. He says he blocked me because he had disappointed me so much and by not talking to me he couldn't disappoint me again. Not sure what to believe - it seemed truthful but I've been manipulated more than once by him.

His ex-girlfriend called me crying/panicking one morning I was there. Said my son had found out where she lives and was stalking her/wouldn't leave. Said she was in her car and scared to get out. I told her to call the police instead of me or drive to the police station. She drove there and he still wouldn't leave until maybe 20 minutes later while trying to talk to her. She never went in and left after he did. He then showed me texts where supposedly she asked him to come over (not sure what to believe from that situation as well). I've told him more than once that he will end up in jail or worse if he doesn't leave her alone, I think he is finally realizing that. I told her to go ahead with a restraining order if she was that concerned.

He says he gets it and will not contact her again. Then he says she later that day sent him a message on social media saying she changed her phone number. He was upset that she's still trying to make contact. He says the next day she and her sister were outside of his place when he walked out. The ex asked him if he wanted his headphones and my son says he said no and to keep them. My son then says the ex's sister said she was calling the cops? My son says he then drove off. Seems like a lot of details are missing from that situation but my son says there isn't?

Son called a cop friend of his, there is no restraining order - not yet anyway. Son voluntarily went and paid for a counseling session yesterday. Said he realizes he needs help to get through this and over the ex.

For now, I'm back to being somewhat hopeful that he may be okay. Of course really hesitant since this is a place I have been at dozens of times before and he always does something to mess it up.

 

[BloodiedButUnbowed]

Hi Michelle,

Your son's life is full of chaos. Unfortunately you can do nothing about his choices. He is a legal adult and you are not responsible for him any longer. He is not under your roof, so you don't have any boundaries to draw there.

You have a choice: continue to fall into his maelstrom, or choose to live a life of peace and serenity regardless of what he is, or is not, doing.

I have learned through my experiences that all of my worrying, praying, hoping, and fretting accomplished absolutely nothing except to tie me in knots.

My loved ones have never changed their behavior because of anything I did, or did not, do. People change only if THEY themselves see the value in it, and want it.

Your son doesn't seem to be going down a positive path at the moment. You can't change his choices.

Love from a distance is much safer for parents like us.

 

[Snow White]

Hi Michelle809. Sorry you have had to find this forum. It sure does help to know that others share your story.

It does sound like you son is not ready to seek help. He talks of joining the military but that is still many months away. When the time comes, he may abandon that choice, too. Our children need to understand that there are consequences to their actions and that we can't undo them (nor should we).

This brings me to my fears.
I'm scared of him committing suicide.
I'm scared of him harming others (particularly the ex-girlfriend).
I'm scared he may end up in jail (he's already on probation for a theft from his job a couple years ago).

Those are our fears also. But we have learned that we can't continue to live with those fears because they will use that to manipulate us forever. Daughter's psychiatrist once said that her risk of suicide was far higher than the general population but that if she did it, it would not be because she wanted to kill herself - she would just have taken her self-harm a little too far. Jail is a real possibility and a natural consequence for law-breaking behaviour.

Something I just thought of, how do you all get over the shame of all of this? I have one coworker who has two difficult children about the same age as my son and she and I can talk privately. Seems as though everyone else at work has young adults off at college and/or working and generally doing what they are supposed to be doing at this age.

There is still a stigma with mental health issues. As much as the agencies, media, etc. are trying to remove that stigma, it is always awkward and difficult to speak about our difficult children with others. Sometimes, it will seem as though the difficult child doesn't exist. And it's also hard when people ask you about your difficult child and you don't know what to say - discreet 'white lies' or the truth? Our very close friends know our situation and are supportive.

I agree that by having him life with you it may only further deteriorate his behaviors. What has he done to show you that living with you will work this time?
We are having our son move back with us (in a new state) after he graduates from his 13 month program in November and to be honest, I am TERRIFIED of going back to the way it was and know I can never live like that again.

RN is correct - there is nothing your son has shown you that would signal he is ready to return to a normal home environment. Once he is back at home, it will be difficult for you to remove him (I understand that there are very different eviction laws in the US than there are in Canada). Even after her son has completed a 13 month program, RN is terrified of a return to prior home life behaviour.

Try setting some boundaries. They are difficult to do at first but they are necessary. Also, try to do some self-care - do something for YOU.

Sending hugs your way.

 

[BusynMember]

You cant join the military in the U.S. with a drug record. They are selective about who can join these days.

 

[Triedntrue]

I don't know your sons situation with the girl but can say from experience that it is rarely one sided. He needs to stay completely away from her. The courts tend to side with the girl in these situations. You also need to stay out of it or they can legally cause you proplems. I had my sons ex ask me questions and when i answered tried to have me arrested for intimidation of a witness. Anyone who knows me would laugh at that.