Spittin Mad

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Hound dog, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    This probably belongs in PE but I'm so freakin mad I'm shaking. (not a good sign)

    Nichole and boyfriend are fighting again. No surprise there. Don't know what it's about, and could care less. Tonight is his night to have Aubrey. So Nichole decides in the middle of this fight she wants to go get her when her demands boyfriend bring her home are fruitless. When she asked I told her no. This was at 11pm. The baby should be asleep. No sense in waking her when odds are they'll be made up in an hour.

    Nichole gets mad and walks over there.

    boyfriend just called me apologizing. He asked if I'd come over there because he doesn't know what to do. His parents are attempting to sleep. it's 11:45 pm. He said he just wanted it over with. I asked if she was still wanting to bring Aubrey home. He said yes. So I told him I'd come pick them up.

    Nichole calls right back. No she doesn't want to come home. Words are exchanged when I reminded her I raised her better than to be disrespectfult of someone's parents. She wasn't coming period. I told her I am so majorly sick of this drama that she is riding on the edge as it is. (true) And that she'd better be home by her cerfew (midnight) or starting looking for somewhere else to live.

    I've had it.

    And quite honestly I have. Almost 4 yrs worth. You'd think by now they could figure out if it's that much trouble it's just not worth it.

    For 25 yrs husband and I have managed our marriage with little or no fighting. Certainly no drama. Thanks to my mother during my childhood I had enough drama back then to fill several lifetimes. I swore to myself as an adult neither myself or my kids would ever live that drama. But thanks to Nichole and boyfriend I've done it for nearly 4 yrs too many.

    This sort of drama not only sets me on edge, it unsettles me deep inside. Not sure how to explain it. Maybe it's some sort of post traumatic stress left of from when I was a kid. It makes my skin crawl, it makes me want to HIT someone or something, and I'm upset for hours even though I'm just on the side lines.

    I'm so sick and tired of Nichole thinking this type of behavior is acceptable. She was not raised so. By any means.

    And what scares me the most is she reminds me.....and I really don't want to admit it.........of my mother. When Nichole is raging nothing, and I mean nothing, matters til she's had her fill.

    I came very close to telling boyfriend to call the cops on her tonight. And if he calls back, I will tell him to call them.

    She has 2 mins.
  2. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Well, she's a half hour past cerfew. Doors are locked so she can't get in. She doesn't have a key.

    Maybe I shouldn't have given an ultimatum, but dammit I've had more than my fill of late. And frankly I don't care if it's her moods or blood sugar. Something has to give.

    Once the pup was out of the house she went right back to old habits only worse. My house is a stye to say the least. I never did get going good on the spring cleaning becasue she came right in after I'd get a room done and trash it. After 4 days of that I gave up.

    So much for our wonderful chat the other night. Evidently none of it registered anywhere in her brain. Seriously, I don't know where she gets this stuff.

    Nichole thinks her every waking moment should be with boyfriend. Then if he doesn't do what she wants, or says something to tick her off there is a major blow out with all the frills of drama. She gets into it with his Mom just about as bad. If it wasn't for boyfriend's Dad she wouldn't be welcomed there. And honestly I don't blame her. Nichole is disrespectful at best. And good grief, she is over there every single day.

    Then here she thinks she should only have to pay half rent. Uh huh? So I said til she gets the car taken care of. She won't do any, and I do mean any, cleaning at all. This includes picking up after Aubrey. As if the mess isn't enough, we get to put up with her moodiness. (putting it mildly) But if we say anything to her about it she goes off.

    Yep. I've had my fill. I'm sick of the drama, dealing with the attitude, and the laziness. Everyone is supposed to walk on eggshells around her and bow to her wishes and desires. Uh, no.

    I don't know if I'll let her back at this point. I have never been so fed up with a child except for stepgfg and I moved her fanny out fast.

    Now I'll attempt to sleep. Thanks for letting me rant. I'm so mad most of it probably doesn't even make sense.
  3. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    Lisa, I can understand being tired of all the emotional drama. difficult child puts me in a state when he rages.
    If N isn't putting Aubrey first(as you do/did for your children) then all bets are off. in my humble opinion.
    She isn't pulling her fair share of the load but wants everyone to take care of her needs.
    Truthfully, you would have tossed her out if she were daughter in law and was carrying on like this at your house. So b/f's parents are within their right to ban her from the house. Hopefully they see she is immature.

    I tell difficult child if someone doesn't like him it may be because he is acting dislikeable. He can change. He doesn't have to be mean, miserable or demanding. To have a friend, one must be a friend. To have love, one must be loving. Hold a mirror up to who she is. I do it a lot to difficult child.

    So maybe Nicole is reaping what she sews. In the meantime, you, Aubrey and everyone else gets the not so nice part.
  4. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Ugh! Ugh! Ugh! Honestly, I'm impressed you've put up with it all of it this long. I'm with you on the drama -- it is too exhausting, draining. We really do reach an age, a time when we deserve so much better.

    The lack of disrespect at the boyfriend's house is his business, and his parents. If they want to put up with it, let them. However, you should not have to put up with it in your home. Walking on eggshells in your home is ridiculous. I know. I've been there done that. It really is a huge relief when you can breath in your own home.

    Believe it or not, the talk the other night is as much a part of her as last night was. She is getting some maturity and she meant all the good things she said that night. The problem is she is in the beginning stages of growing up. She still has a long way to go.

    Maybe it is time to force her to find her own place for her and her daughter. Give her a deadline by when she has to be out and absolutely stick to it. For mine, the deal was when we moved here, she would have one year to save her money to move so long as home rules were followed. When the home rules became something to circumvent, a gave her one month to find a place. Saying and doing it hurt in so many ways. She wasn't ready -- not financially nor emotionally. I worry about her a lot. But I'm gradually getting a home I can invite others into. I'm not awake half the night worrying. I can get up in the morning and do what I want or need. I don't have to hear how unfair I am in not letting her use my car, etc. It is not easy, but it can make a huge difference in your life.

    Hope you can come up with some real solutions that will make having N and A living with you bearable or that you find a way to move them out.

  5. Hopeless

    Hopeless ....Hopeful Now


    I hope things are better today for you. Sending you many hugs.
  6. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I'm calmer this morning.

    No word from Nichole. So I don't know if she went to work or not as she was supposed to be there by 7am.

    At this point I dunno if she will continue to live here or not. I do know that some major changes will have to be made in the attitude/respect dept if she does continue to live here. This sense of entitlement I guess you'd call it has more than gotten old.

    I just can't do it anymore. I won't do it anymore.

    MB, maybe you're right. Maybe some of our talk the other day registered. Who knows? I know she's still in the process of maturing and has a long way yet to go. I was already preparing to give her a deadline to move out even before last night happened. Last night was just the straw and the camel thing. So if she does stay, it will most definately will be with a deadline to move into her our place. Probably in Sept. I have no desire to go thru yet another quarter of school attempting to study and such in complete chaos. And that gives her enough time to save money for a place and get the car/license thing settled.

    I hadn't realized until last night how so like my mother she is. Says alot for genetics as Nichole was never around my Mom enough to be influenced by her. That really upsets me. With good reason. And it makes me really worry for Aubrey. If Nichole can't get it together, the poor child is going to have a hellish life. I know cuz I lived it first hand with my Mom. It's why my grandmother stepped in and took over the majority of my raising.

    I cried myself to sleep last night. I haven't done that since stepgfg.:pouting: Says alot, I guess. As right now her behavior is almost identical to stepgfg's when she was living with us. *sigh*
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    Hugs Lisa. I am so with you on living the drama thing. Cory brings his own unique type of drama into our lives constantly but thankfully he has moved past Keyana's mom and that drama. It seems his new girlfriend is much more sedate and doesnt instigate him. Actually she is good for him and tells him to knock it off when he starts getting out of line with us.

    We have been on the countdown with trying to find him his own place but with his legal problems that got put on the back burner. Hopefully when all that is over with we can start that moving forward again.

    It is so difficult when we have the grands involved. We wont allow Cory to put Keyana in a bad situation and now we are worried sick over Hailie and that whole situation.
  8. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    I have no advice - just hugs.

    You'll figure out what to do - you always do!

  9. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Lisa -


    I'm sorry that the stress is wearing you down. I could hear the frustration in your post.

    Nichole does seem to be maturing, albeit you couldn't tell with last night's antics. But that rage she has and the way she reacts to it is such a borderline trait. I have faith that Nichole will self-correct as she matures. She has so many things going for her, not the least of all is you. It would be easier if she could get into DBT, but I believe she can do it on her own. She's making so many steps in the right direction. It's not going to be easy and it will take a lot of conscious effort on her part.

    As a thought, I've posted a link to the DBT Training Manual used by tdocs in treating Borderline (BPD). Since you don't have access to this service in your area, maybe you could get the book and work on it together. Ideally, DBT is done in a group setting but that's not possible in your case. Here's the Barnes and Noble link. You can probably get it on Amazon, but I know I've seen it on B&N so I just looked there:


    I used to have it and just went looking for it as I have no need for it and was going to send it to you. But I must have gotten rid of it because I can't find it. I'll keep looking and if I come across it (there is one more place I can look), I'll let you know.

    ((((hugs)))) for your tired and hurting Mommy heart.
  10. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    by the way - I do have at least one or two other books on Borderline (BPD) (Lost in the Mirror) is one of them. I'll be happy to send them to you if you're interested. Just let me know.
  11. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    No advice to add just sending some gentle hugs your way.
  12. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Thank you for offering the books. I have books on bipolar, but none on borderline. What I know I've researched online. They would be appreciated. I'll look for that one for the DBT. I know she needs that therapy.

    I agree this was so very much a Borderline (BPD) episode.

    boyfriend showed up on my doorstep this afternoon. Nichole had kept him up all night fighting because "he'd gotten her thrown out". That's what boyfriend got for letting her stay there. *sigh* This afternoon she demanded he find her a place to live. Which is how he ended up on my door step.

    We had a long talk, 2 hours worth. This tells me how serious it is getting lately since I know boyfriend is terrified of me. He told me basically what I'm seeing here, but with the drama fights mixed in. So, there is no reason to not believe him. He cares, but she scares him.

    You know, it's awful but I told him that I wonderf if the most recent behavior isn't Nichole wanting me to throw her out. You know, force the issue. Maybe not even a conscious effort, but there none the less. He told me he is scared to death to move in together, and God forbid marriage at this point. And I not only agreed, but told him I think it's the worst thing they could do right now. Relationships aren't supposed to be so hard.

    We talked about alot. He knows he is at fault in some areas. I guess that's a start. He'd never admit it before. Maybe he's beginning to grow up a little too.

    I did tell him if she ever hits him again he needs to call the police. That behavior has to stop. And it becomes a pattern that can escalate. It hurt me to say that about my own child. But it is the truth. I'm worried if this becomes a pattern what is going to happen one day Nichole doesn't feel so protective over the baby (like when Aubrey's older) and turns her rage in that direction. It truely does worry me.

    Worst part of it all is Nichole won't take responsibility when she does this.

    She showed up after he'd been here quite awhile fuming mad. He tried, right in front of me, to end the fight. Over and over again. And since I was already involved, yes this time I contributed. boyfriend had no clue of why she'd ever gotten mad in the first place and told her so. She kept saying she wasn't mad at him. Finally I asked her what she was mad at. She said she didn't know. She's always mad.

    It took a long time to bring her out of this rage. It didn't esculate because I was right there. There was no logic to it. None. And much to both our credits, this time both boyfriend and I forced to to take responsibility for her behavior. It wasn't pretty. But she needed to face it.

    She is back. So we will see. I am going to type up some rules ect. She will have a deadline to move out. I think finding independence is crutial for her. So we'll work toward that. I haven't had a chance to talk with her alone yet.

    I do think she can learn to control it. I think she can improve it. She just has to learn to recognize it and learn to stop. She has improved. I have to keep hoping she will continue.

  13. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Lisa -

    I did look for the DBT book. I don't have it. I vaguely remember getting rid of it sometime ago. Here is the synopsis from the B&N site:

    (bold added by me)

    So, it can be used by patients.

    When I was in the psychiatric hospital almost 6 years ago with severe depression, I was diagnosis'd with Borderline (BPD). At that time I fit it. But, I only fit the criteria when I was severely depressed.

    I think I fit it also when I was younger, but I had worked on myself and self-corrected. This was years before I had even heard of Borderline (BPD). I was just a young mother with 2 young children and I was tired of being unhappy. It really was baby-steps and was a very conscious effort. And I started small. People with Borderline (BPD) have skewed thinking and I know that I tended to think that people were out to get me. I *knew* that wasn't true, but knowing it intellectually and believing it emotionally were two different things. So, I started paying attention to myself. I forced myself to make eye contact with people in the grocery store for example (instead of doing the 'if I don't see you, you don't see me' thing). Then when I got that down, I forced myself to smile at people. Then I forced myself to chit chat. It was a process that developed and I really just started paying attention to myself. For the first time, I really heard myself and what I sounded like. And then I could stop myself.

    And when I was in that severe depression, I didn't have any resources left to put towards self-correcting and towards fixing my thinking...if that makes any sense. All of my resources were being used in just getting through the day.

    Now, I no longer have to be so conscious of it. I'm all fixed. :) It's pretty rare and few and far between, but I still get that rage. 99.9% of the time I can handle it appropriately. Every once in a while it still comes out - when I'm overwhelmed or feeling bad. But still nowhere near like it used to be.

    So, like I've said before, I feel a kinship with Nichole. She reminds me so much of myself at that age.

    Sadly, I see my daughter ending up with a Borderline (BPD) diagnosis. Her therapist and I talked about it a couple of years ago. I really don't know how to thwart it, but I'm trying. I don't want her to have to go through what I did.

    I'll send the books I do have to you. I'll try to get them out this week if you PM your address.

  14. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Lisa, it does sound like she was trying to push you to kick her out. My daughter was really good at and if I didn't take the bait, she'd pick a fight and run out the door to move in with her friends, anyway. I agree that it probably isn't a conscious maneuver. It is, however, a way to get what she wants (move out of the house and into a place with her boyfriend) and, if things don't work out, it's. not. her. fault. -- you kicked her out.

    If you give her a set deadline and offer to help her a little with the move, then it is harder for her to blame you. She might be upset that you pushed her out the door, but you didn't kick her out -- huge difference in our kids' minds. Making them grow up is hard. Making them grow up with a little one in the picture has got to make it so much harder. Wish you the best on this one.
  15. WhymeMom?

    WhymeMom? No real answers to life..

    I sometimes get confused with the acronym Borderline (BPD).....is the meaning Bi-Polar Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder?
  16. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    BiPolar (BP) is bipolar.
    Borderline (BPD) is borderline personality disorder.
  17. WhymeMom?

    WhymeMom? No real answers to life..

    Thanks for clearing that up for me!
  18. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Lisa, hugs and more hugs.

    Not only did Copper try to get thrown out, I remember trying to get my mom to throw ME out! It's all so familiar. You are much more equipped than my mother was to handle this situation. I think that with your help, she can learn to be independent. You both know that she needs to.

    Good for the boyfriend for coming over (scared as he was) to talk to you! And good on both of you for forming a united front to not let Nichole just take her rage and run with it. That right there was a lesson she won't forget.

    Hang in there, sweetie.
  19. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    I also thought this episode and others have that ring of Borderline (BPD) to them. Many times I can read what you have written and gone "yep, done that one before"...lol.

    At her age Im pretty sure she doesnt realize what she is doing at the time. Heck...I have just realized in the past year or so that SOME of my anger fits are cries for attention. My own little attempts to manipulate someone.

    There is a yahoo group on DBT where they work on lessons through email and posting. Just go to yahoo groups and enter DBT into the search.
  20. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Thanks for the heads up on the yahoo group. That may prove to be a big help when I get the book. Plus it will give Nichole a chance to talk to others with the same issues. Right now I think she's feeling awfully alone in all of this.